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jimmy
Guest
I guess Paul was a demon and taught the doctrines of decietful spirits since he wished that all would be celibate as he was.
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Em_in_FL
Guest
This is a question I will probably always struggle with in my mind…
After all… my own father left the priesthood to marry my mother.
It saddens me, for the sake of the Church, that a wonderful priest had to step down.
But then, for the sake of my dad… he did follow the teachings of the Church (and always will) without argument.
I’m just glad he’s my dad!
After all… my own father left the priesthood to marry my mother.
It saddens me, for the sake of the Church, that a wonderful priest had to step down.
But then, for the sake of my dad… he did follow the teachings of the Church (and always will) without argument.
I’m just glad he’s my dad!
J
JCPeacekeeper
Guest
Notice the word FORBID.
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prv
Guest
W/o making an argument, I just want to remind----the Latin Church does have married clergy, and they do not require permission from the pope in order to be ordained-----they are called deacons.
This be must emphasized time and time again—(a local newspaper, writing about the time of last year’s conclave, wrote that deacons were laypeople, which is absolutely NOT correct.)
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connecian
Guest
I stand by my opinion that a priest should not be married,
however here are a few links for reading:
This is a link for an Angelican man becoming a priest and his feelings:
ncregister.com/site/article/1482/
another link that also shows both sides, with (name removed by moderator)ut from theologians and priests on their opinions.
beliefnet.com/story/165/story_16519_1.html
however here are a few links for reading:
This is a link for an Angelican man becoming a priest and his feelings:
ncregister.com/site/article/1482/
another link that also shows both sides, with (name removed by moderator)ut from theologians and priests on their opinions.
beliefnet.com/story/165/story_16519_1.html
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CAM228
Guest
Greetings to all,
I have already said enough about this issue in an earlier post.
What I am wondering is how many people that say priests need to be married know what that calling feels like? It is not the vocation to marriage. So try not to impose your desire for marriage on men called to be priests. As I said earlier I have been called to be a priest and the celibate issue is not an issue. All the men I have spoken to that feel they have a call to be a priest are very willing to give up marriage.
When this country opens its eyes and puts God in the first place, then the vocations crisis will go away. As long as our society lives a hedonistic lifestyle men and women will probably not hear God’s call in their hearts. In countries such as Africa they have more vocations then they can handle.
May Jesus hold you close to His Heart.
I have already said enough about this issue in an earlier post.
What I am wondering is how many people that say priests need to be married know what that calling feels like? It is not the vocation to marriage. So try not to impose your desire for marriage on men called to be priests. As I said earlier I have been called to be a priest and the celibate issue is not an issue. All the men I have spoken to that feel they have a call to be a priest are very willing to give up marriage.
When this country opens its eyes and puts God in the first place, then the vocations crisis will go away. As long as our society lives a hedonistic lifestyle men and women will probably not hear God’s call in their hearts. In countries such as Africa they have more vocations then they can handle.
May Jesus hold you close to His Heart.
J
johnnykins
Guest
We need to all face facts that priestly celibacy is a discipline only that could be changed. We all know of exceptions within the Latin Rite. We all also know the Eastern Rites generally allow for a married clergy. Because it is simply a discipline one can certainly argue in good conscience for its discontinuance.
By the same token, no one is forced to be a priest. I suggest that no one who considers the priesthood is unaware of the discipline. The episcopacy has determined that it is a discipline to be continued. Perhaps they are right; perhaps they are wrong. In any event, it is a matter for Rome to decide in its prudence.
In all I view it as a non-issue. If Rome changes it, fine. If not, fine, too.
By the same token, no one is forced to be a priest. I suggest that no one who considers the priesthood is unaware of the discipline. The episcopacy has determined that it is a discipline to be continued. Perhaps they are right; perhaps they are wrong. In any event, it is a matter for Rome to decide in its prudence.
In all I view it as a non-issue. If Rome changes it, fine. If not, fine, too.
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setter
Guest
My understanding is that many of these countries where religious vocations are flurishing, the local church has a greater sense of community and value their celibate members as a essential and energizing element of their community. A feature of a “hedonistic” and lack of faith lifestyle is the shrinking number of children and reluctance of parents to have their children pursue a religious vocation.Greetings to all,
I have already said enough about this issue in an earlier post.
What I am wondering is how many people that say priests need to be married know what that calling feels like? It is not the vocation to marriage. So try not to impose your desire for marriage on men called to be priests. As I said earlier I have been called to be a priest and the celibate issue is not an issue. All the men I have spoken to that feel they have a call to be a priest are very willing to give up marriage.
When this country opens its eyes and puts God in the first place, then the vocations crisis will go away. As long as our society lives a hedonistic lifestyle men and women will probably not hear God’s call in their hearts. In countries such as Africa they have more vocations then they can handle.
May Jesus hold you close to His Heart.
S
santaro75
Guest
good article about Dwight. he brings up some good points about how the church isn’t really set up for married priests, their families etc, etc. However there are other churches that are able to get it done so i am sure that in the case of the Catholic Church it is the same.
One point i thought interesting was about the size of the family a priest would have because of the rule against birth control. I believe that it goes the same for us then, unless you are able to support as many children as God gives you, you must stay celibate even in your marriage.
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Titus
Guest
You’re absolutely right. As someone considering a priestly vocation and an only child, I would certainly say that the shrinking size of families affects me: while I still hope and pray for the vocation, being an only child adds extra problems and challenges. Also, most of my friends are not religious, and I feel a lack of support from many of them- in that they don’t care about God and the Church at all. But some do, and they are a great support, as is my parish (and CAF!)
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TimOliv
Guest
There is not a large number when one takes into account the number of priests in America. However, there is a decent sized group of priests who are married having been Protestant (or, in some cases, validly ordained priests of schismatic churches).
In our Diocese we have a gentleman who was an Episcopal Priest, he is only 32 and has two children. He will be pastor of a new Anglican Use Parish (between 40 and 60 congregants converted to Catholicism with him, they will form the Anglican Use Parish).
Add to the mix that this gent has years of formation with his only form of livelihood being financial support from those who converted with him. This is a high stress time.
Realistically, the only thing that the church would be able to do, would be to run basically like the Orthodox Church.
“Here’s a seminary, you figure out how you’re going to pay for it and where your family will live, get your education here and nothing more, when you graduate it is up to your Bishop to ordain you, we just train future priests.”
I cannot imagine we would have too many takers, and the cost of doing this would not really help us too much.
You start something like that, you accept 5 new candidates for the priesthood, did you really end a vocation crisis?
The only thing that will end a vocation crisis is prayer. If you don’t believe that prayer is the answer to this problem, then evaluate why exactly this crisis actually concerns you.
In our Diocese we have a gentleman who was an Episcopal Priest, he is only 32 and has two children. He will be pastor of a new Anglican Use Parish (between 40 and 60 congregants converted to Catholicism with him, they will form the Anglican Use Parish).
Add to the mix that this gent has years of formation with his only form of livelihood being financial support from those who converted with him. This is a high stress time.
Realistically, the only thing that the church would be able to do, would be to run basically like the Orthodox Church.
“Here’s a seminary, you figure out how you’re going to pay for it and where your family will live, get your education here and nothing more, when you graduate it is up to your Bishop to ordain you, we just train future priests.”
I cannot imagine we would have too many takers, and the cost of doing this would not really help us too much.
You start something like that, you accept 5 new candidates for the priesthood, did you really end a vocation crisis?
The only thing that will end a vocation crisis is prayer. If you don’t believe that prayer is the answer to this problem, then evaluate why exactly this crisis actually concerns you.
J
jimmy
Guest
Notice the fact that the Catholic Church DOES NOT FORBID marriage. No one has a right to be a priest. It is something that a person is called to, and if the Church does not allow them to be priest then they can’t be priest. The priest is called within the Church. He doesn’t simply decide that he wants to be a priest. The Church has decided that they will only select their priests from those who have chosen the celibate lifestyle. A person has a choice whether they want to remain celibate or to become married. If you remain celibate, there is still a possibility that you could be priest(if the Church thinks you have a calling to the priesthood).
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BillyT92679
Guest
Just be careful here, there are many, many wonderful Eastern Catholic priests who are great husbands and fathers and excellent, devoted Priests as well.
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kleary
Guest
The Church has NEVER allowed priests to marry- yet she has allowed married men to become priests. The Eastern Rites are allowed to ordain married men to the priesthood- yet the Church has found that this practice has in no way merited the Church-
VATICAN CITY, DEC 4, 2006 (VIS) - Given below is the text of a declaration made today by Cardinal Claudio Hummes O.F.M., prefect of the Congregation for the Clergy, concerning his comments on priestly celibacy that appeared on the pages of “Estado de Sao Paolo,” a Brazilian newspaper.
"On the subject of the echoes provoked by my words as reported by the newspaper ‘Estado de Sao Paulo,’ I would like to specify the following:
"In the Church it has always been clear that priests’ obligation to celibacy is not a dogma but a disciplinary norm. Indeed, it is valid for the Latin Church but not for the oriental rites where, even in communities united to the Catholic Church, it is normal for there to be married priests.
"Yet it is also clear that the norm prescribing celibacy for priests in the Latin Church is very ancient and is founded upon consolidated tradition and upon strong motivations, both theological-spiritual and practical-pastoral, as reiterated also by Popes.
"Even during the recent Synod on priests, the most widespread opinion among the fathers was that a relaxation of the rule of celibacy would not be a solution even to the problem of the lack of vocations, which is, rather, to be linked to other causes, in the first place the modern culture of secularization. This is clear also from the experience of other Christian confessions that have married priests and pastors.
“This question is not, then, currently on the order of the day for the ecclesial authorities, as was recently reiterated following the latest meeting of heads of dicastery with the Holy Father.”
Ken
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Stu
Guest
After careful consideration of the issue, I have come to the conclusion that the Church is correct in its discipline of priestly celibacy.
There are many specious arguments against this discipline, such as the assertion that it was only implemented because the Church didn’t want to lose land and money to priest’s offspring who didn’t become priests and who they couldn’t control.
When are the critics of the Church going to wake up and see that in order to survive the Church must stick to her solid teachings based upon faith, reason, study and guidance by the Holy Spirit???
There are many specious arguments against this discipline, such as the assertion that it was only implemented because the Church didn’t want to lose land and money to priest’s offspring who didn’t become priests and who they couldn’t control.
When are the critics of the Church going to wake up and see that in order to survive the Church must stick to her solid teachings based upon faith, reason, study and guidance by the Holy Spirit???
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Psalm45_9
Guest
The church does not forbid marriage, God forbids those who are ritually unclean to serve him in worship, just like in the old testament. The Levitical priests were required to abstain from sex when they served the temple. From the Apostolic time it was determined that a Catholic Priest never ceases to serve God and so they must abstain, their wives had to consent to this at ordination. However temptation proved to be too strong for most and the Latin Rite said for now on all priests will be single and celibate, just like Saint Paul was and as he exhorted. The Eastern Churches re-worded the words of previous councils so that their deacons and priests could continue to consumate their marriages, but that was a development during the early middle ages, before they held the same discipline as the west, all men who have been ordained to Holy Orders must abstain. This is one contributing factor to the great schism. Here’s a good article about the history of celibacy and it is written by a married Latin Rite priest:
crisismagazine.com/october2006/ryland.htm
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LeahInancsi
Guest
I’m not even too crazy about married deacons. My parish has a deacon who is married with grown children. I’ve seen him him twice in the past six months. One of those times, he reminded us, via the homily, that he had family responsibilities that took away from his time at the church. He assists with one Mass a week and works with the jail ministry. That’s it. He’s too busy traveling with his wife and playing with his toys.
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Khoria_Anna
Guest
Tim, you have made so many great statements in this thread that there’s not time or space to speak to all of them. I am, however qualified to speak to this one.
Yep, go forth, married man, sell your house, quit your job for years, go to an expensive seminary, sink everything into your education. Let your wife support you and your family for the duration of seminary. Figure out how child care is to be arranged. on and on and on. . . We did that. it wasn’t easy. We have fond memories of seminary of the kind that one has about the storm that destroyed one’s home. Years later, one really only remembers how everyone pulled together, and how by grace we all made it through. The huge hardships are dimmed in memory and the warmth takes over.
But in the Orthodox church, one at least has a culture of married clergy. The presvytera-to-be association met regularly with older khorias, matushkas and presvyteras, to share prayer, spirituality, common-sense advice. A couple of married priests/spiritual directors on campus made it their business to minister to the women and kids. And train us up to be priest’s wives and kids.
Can’t imagine how formation for married priests and their families could work in the western church where there is no existing culture of married clergy. I would take YEARS of planning and restructuring to make a seminary formation process work.
Besides now that we have swum the Tiber, we’ve seen the beauty of the Roman celibate clergy and stand in awe of them and their commitment and work. Thanks be to God for them; may more men take up the calling and challenge to become part of their number.
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setter
Guest
You are doing yourself a great favor by surrounding yourself with Catholic folks who will assist you in discerning God’s vocation for you. A necessary task is often searching out and nurturing those relationships that are alive in the Spirit and are devoted to seeking first the kingdom of God. These nurturing relationships in the Lord provide the home base and backdrop from which our daily and vocational decisions and interactions with others spring from. God calls each one of us to community, especially when our walk with ther Lord Jesus runs counter to the societal and even family sub-culture around us.
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