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retrovert
Guest
Can someone tell me if there is such a thing as time (as we know it) in Purgatory. I’ve been told Yes and No. What is the Church’s teaching.
Thanks…
Thanks…
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suissemissed
Guest
The Church has no official stance on the matter… very little has actually been defined concerning Purgatory. I imagine most theologians would say there is no “time” (as we know it) in Purgatory.
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floresco
Guest
Pope John Paul II gave a series of short talks on Heaven, Hell and Purgatory. You can read them here. ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/jp2heavn.htm
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MarcoPolo
Guest
Probably not literally. Terrestrial “time” is not part of the permanent doctrine of Purgatory. Historical Christians sometimes used measures of “time” but they always did so to reflect the amount of “purgation” necessary. Here’s what Cardinal Ratzinger wrote in 1988 (before he became Pope Benedict XVI):*The transforming ‘moment’ of this encounter [Purgatory] cannot be quantified by the measurements of earthly time. It is, indeed, not eternal but a transition, and yet trying to qualify it as of ‘short’ or ‘long’ duration on the basis of temporal measurements derived from physics would be naive and unproductive. The ‘temporal measure’ of this encounter lies in the unsoundable depths of existence, in a passing-over where we are burned ere we are transformed. To measure such Existenzzeit, such an ‘existential time,’ in terms of the time of this world would be to ignore the specificity of the human spirit in its simultaneous relationship with, and differentation from, the world. (Ratzinger, Eschatology, p. 230)*More quotes and details: What is Purgatory? 
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Skye_Ariel
Guest
I don’t think time will exist as we know it. Just imagine being stuck away on a deserted island with no clocks or calender and how you will lose track of time. And that’s here on earth. So I imagine any sense of time in purgatory will be totally off, and a year might feel like 10yrs or 10yrs may feel like 5 depending on your view. So I don’t think they will know how much time has passed.
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GEddie
Guest
Sequential time is an artifact of entropy, which is limited to the physical world.
We really do not sense time. There is no organ in our human bodies that is made to sense time, in the way that our eyes sense light, or our noses, odorants. What we perceive is entropy acting in the world, or cooking off inside our heads and bodies.
Once we have exchanged our natural body for the timeless pneumatikon soma, we will not experience the linear time that marks our way to death.
ICXC NIKA
We really do not sense time. There is no organ in our human bodies that is made to sense time, in the way that our eyes sense light, or our noses, odorants. What we perceive is entropy acting in the world, or cooking off inside our heads and bodies.
Once we have exchanged our natural body for the timeless pneumatikon soma, we will not experience the linear time that marks our way to death.
ICXC NIKA
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spes_salvi
Guest
Follow up question: so how do indulgences apply to our stay in purgatory, often “quantified” in terms of earthly time? (3 years, 300 days etc.) What about the Sabbatine privelege? Does this mean that Purgatory is somewhat synched to our 7-day week? 
It is also said that in purgatory, we suffer for our “temporal punishments,” somewhat implying time.
It is also said that in purgatory, we suffer for our “temporal punishments,” somewhat implying time.
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GEddie
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The numerical values of indulgences are no longer used, having been dropped in Vatican I, IMS.Follow up question: so how do indulgences apply to our stay in purgatory, often “quantified” in terms of earthly time? (3 years, 300 days etc.) What about the Sabbatine privelege? Does this mean that Purgatory is somewhat synched to our 7-day week?
It is also said that in purgatory, we suffer for our “temporal punishments,” somewhat implying time.
Even when they were in use, it is an error that these values referred to time of Purgatory. They did not. The time values referred to times of “canonical penance” to be achieved in human life; not to durations of Purgatory.
ICXC NIKA
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Jerry-Jet
Guest
I have hears that St. thomas Aquinas says that in Heaven there is NO time–on Earth there is time and in purgatory there is something like time and yet not like time.
In other words there is some experience of duration in purgatory but it is different than time on earth–where as in heaven there isn’t a flet duration of time.
I think the term in heaven is eternity and in purgatory it is something called Aevereternity.
Maybe someone can post in and say what Aevereternity is? Please forgive me if I haven’t spelled it right.
In other words there is some experience of duration in purgatory but it is different than time on earth–where as in heaven there isn’t a flet duration of time.
I think the term in heaven is eternity and in purgatory it is something called Aevereternity.
Maybe someone can post in and say what Aevereternity is? Please forgive me if I haven’t spelled it right.
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PJM
Guest
[caps for emphasis not shouting]
AND THE RIGHT ANSWER IS…
BOTH YES AND NO
“No” because “time” dos not exist for God. Everything for God is “in the present”
"Yes" because time Does exist for man’s sake
However:
Because Temporal Punishment is assiged by God who alone knows “how much”
and Because God alone*** accepts “payment” for Temporal Punishment [and is His own Bookkeeper]; God alone knows when the necessary payback is complete.
*** Both Baptism and the Annointing of the sick wipe the slate claen as does [or CAN] a Plenary Indulgence.
God Bless you,
pat/PJM
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retrovert
Guest
Thank you all very much. A lot to ponder about…
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MarcoPolo
Guest
Time was always used in the context of severity of punishment, so in that sense, the analogies were theologically accurate, even if not scientifically accurate. Kind of like how we say heaven “above” even though we don’t mean it is located at a certain geographic altitude.Follow up question: so how do indulgences apply to our stay in purgatory, often “quantified” in terms of earthly time? (3 years, 300 days etc.) What about the Sabbatine privelege? Does this mean that Purgatory is somewhat synched to our 7-day week?
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PJM
Guest
CCC #1421 The Lord Jesus Christ, physician of our souls and bodies, who forgave the sins of the paralytic and restored him to bodily health, has willed that his Church continue, in the power of the Holy Spirit, his work of healing and salvation, even among her own members. This is the purpose of the two sacraments of healing: the sacrament of Penance and the sacrament of Anointing of the Sick=Gorgias;10325086]Hmm… are you thinking ‘anointing of the sick’, or perhaps rather the ‘apostolic pardon’?
CCC #1526 “Is any among you sick? Let him call for the presbyters of the Church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; **and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven” (Jas 5:14-15). **.
God Bless,
pat/PJM
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Gorgias
Guest
Yes, the sacrament of Penance brings healing (in fact, it brings the forgiveness of sins). However, this doesn’t imply that it “wipes the slate clean” of the temporal effects of sin, as you have claimed. (If it did, then there’d be no need for indulgences, and no such thing as ‘Purgation’.)
Again, yes – the anointing of the sick includes sacramental reconciliation; this brings forgiveness of sins. However, this does not mean a remission of the temporal effects of sin.
In other words, while there is true healing efficacy in the anointing of the sick, it is not what you’re saying it is. (As part of the anointing of the sick, however, there is the possibility of the ‘apostolic pardon’. It is the apostolic pardon that brings the remission of the temporal effects of sin, not the anointing, per se.)
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clem456
Guest
St Augustine has a treatment of time in the Confessions.
Essentially, we only know the present moment.
God knows all times, always. Past, present, future. God is not limited by time. God is “outside” of time. There is no adequate description or analogy.
CS Lewis also compares God’s view of time to viewing a line from above. God sees the whole line at all times, but we live on a dot on the line.
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PJM
Guest
My friend, not arguing just trying to uncover the truth:In other words, while there is true healing efficacy in the anointing of the sick, it is not what you’re saying it is. (As part of the anointing of the sick, however, there is the possibility of the ‘apostolic pardon’. It is the apostolic pardon that brings the remission of the temporal effects of sin, not the anointing, per se.)
These 3 positions all confirm MY UNDERSTANDING.
Which no way makes me right
BUT what is the source of your position?Question: Which are the effects of the Sacrament of Extreme Unction?
Answer: The effects of Extreme Unction are: 1st, To comfort us in the pains of sickness and to strengthen us against temptation; 2d, To remit venial sins and to cleanse our soul from the remains of sin; 3d, To restore us to health, when God sees fit.
This is Question 274 of the Baltimore Catechism, a work in the public domain.
catholicism.about.com/od/baltimorecatechism/f/Question_274_BC.htm
The Effects of the Sacrament:
Received in faith and in a state of grace, the Sacrament of the Anointing of the Sick provides the recipient with a number of graces, including the fortitude to resist temptation in the face of death, when he is weakest; a union with the Passion of Christ, which makes his suffering holy; and the grace to prepare for death, so that he may meet God in hope rather than in fear. If the recipient was not able to receive the Sacrament of Confession, Anointing also provides forgiveness of sins. And, if it will aid in the salvation of his soul, Anointing may restore the recipient’s health
catholicism.about.com/od/beliefsteachings/p/Sac_Anointing.htm
What are the Last Rites in Catholicism?
Answer:
The Last Rites for Catholic include several sacraments: Reconciliation/Penance/Confession, Confirmation (if the person hasn’t received it yet ), Anointing of the Sick . . . and Viaticum (which is meant to be the last reception of Holy Communion for the journey from this life to eternity), along with the Apostolic Blessing, which carries a Plenary Indulgence (under the usual conditions).
wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_Last_Rites_in_Catholicism
Continued Blessings,
Pat/PJM
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Skye_Ariel
Guest
I love that analogy that’s exactly what I was going to say!
It’s like if the timeline was a line on a sheet of paper and God can see the whole line at once, and He can put His hand on the whole line all at once like putting his hand on a piece of paper. That’s why He’s always the same and never changes and it’s always the present for Him where as for us we are so small, we live on the line and move across it slowly and can only see a part of the line at a time. 
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