Time in the afterlife?

[Beryllos]

Not even such a simple thing as “time” can be agreed upon within the group of apologists.

Perhaps it is not so simple. Long ago — or was it Once Upon A Time? — I read an amusing essay about how complicated it is even to keep track of time in the chronological sense. For software developers, it is a nightmare.

The day is defined by the rotation of the earth. That rotational period is divided into 24 hours, and yet in some parts of the world the hours are numbered 1 through 12 with the suffix AM or PM, which changes not when the numbers begin their cycle at 1, but rather at 12. Why are hours divided into sixtieths, and minutes further into sixtieths?

Days are counted by sevens in accordance with Jewish Scripture (or did the 7-day week originate even further back?), and each day given a special name (in English, some named after false gods!).

Days are also counted in larger groups called months, supposedly marking the cycles of the moon, and yet the months in Western calendars do not keep time with cycles of the moon. The months are are not all the same length: 28 (or 29 in a leap year), 30, or 31 days. The months do not align consistently with the weeks. The months are named after false gods, Roman emperors, or ordinal numbers (Sept=7, Oct=8, Nov=9, Dec=10), except the numbers are misaligned with respect to the placement of the months in the year (Sept=9, Oct=10, Nov=11, Dec=12).

Neither weeks nor months align with years. Years are defined by the orbital period of the earth, which is not evenly divisible by days, so we patch up the calendar by “leaping.” That means we insert one extra day every 4 years, … but we omit it every 100 years, … unless the year is divisible by 400.

The years are numbered relative to the birth of Jesus, so years prior to his birth must be counted in reverse (e.g., 800 BC came before 400 BC, whereas 800 AD came after 400 AD).

We also mark centuries, and there is no little confusion about whether the 21st century began on January 1, 2000, or January 1, 2001.

People write the year sometimes with 4 digits, and sometimes with 2 digits. This led to the Y2K problem. For those of you too young to remember, it was feared that computers would mistake 00 for 1900 instead of 2000, which would mess up all sorts of calendar-based applications. Isn’t it ironic that, in connection with this problem, the phrase “Year 2000” was shortened to “Y2K”? I mean, that’s the sort of laziness that created the problem in the first place!

I could go on. How about time zones? How about Daylight Saving Time? International Date Line? Leap seconds? The Theory of Relativity?

But I don’t have the time.

 

[Aloysium]

The whole point of this thread was simple: to point out that all the speculation about heaven, hell or purgatory is nothing but unfounded, sheer speculation. Not even such a simple thing as “time” can be agreed upon within the group of apologists. The old phrase comes to mind: “the blind leads the unsighted”.

FYI: We base our beliefs on the truth as revealed in scripture and interpreted by the church, through the grace and guidance of the Holy Spirit. There are many saints who have spoken about their relationship with God. Through prayer, meditation, contemplation of Holy Scripture and the church’s teachings, through works of charity and participation in the mass and sacraments, particularly the body and blood of Jesus, we grow in the Way that brings us to everlasting joy and life in God. You may wish to deepen your understanding of our faith, if an honest discussion is what you intend to have with Catholics. I thought the responses were pretty good given that sources like the Catechism are not a physics texts. I do have a visual impairment, but paradoxically it has helped me see things more clearly. It would not be that which prevents me from leading you, in my humble way, however. You will be guided to the truth when you are willing and ready.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

That’s not what you said in the OP, but it’s your thread, so feel free to redirect it.

 

[Pallas_Athene]

Perhaps it is not so simple. Long ago — or was it Once Upon A Time? — I read an amusing essay about how complicated it is even to keep track of time in the chronological sense.

Not so. Time is the measurement of change. God is supposed to be ACTIVE. With action comes change, with change comes time. What kind of labels (weeks, months, etc…) you wish to assign to the change is irrelevant. There are only two possible states of existence: 1) stasis, which is frozen unchanging existence, or 2) active, changing existence.

If there is an end to purgatory, then there is “time” there. If God is omnipresent, then God is in the purgatory, so God is part of the time. If you believe that heaven is one unchanging pleasure, and hell is one unchanging torture that is your prerogative. But you should realize that God cannot be both active and unchanging at the same “TIME”.

 

[davidv]

Not so. Time is the measurement of change. God is supposed to be ACTIVE.

That is not correct. God is pure act. He has no potential to change. So you present a straw man and the conclusions that follow are invalid.

With action comes change, with change comes time. What kind of labels (weeks, months, etc…) you wish to assign to the change is irrelevant. There are only two possible states of existence: 1) stasis, which is frozen unchanging existence, or 2) active, changing existence.

If there is an end to purgatory, then there is “time” there. If God is omnipresent, then God is in the purgatory, so God is part of the time. If you believe that heaven is one unchanging pleasure, and hell is one unchanging torture that is your prerogative. But you should realize that God cannot be both active and unchanging at the same “TIME”.

 

[ericc]

The whole point of this thread was simple: to point out that all the speculation about heaven, hell or purgatory is nothing but unfounded, sheer speculation. Not even such a simple thing as “time” can be agreed upon within the group of apologists. The old phrase comes to mind: “the blind leads the unsighted”.

If you think this is all sheer speculation, then the purpose of starting this thread is to waste our time on your thread and not a genuine attempt to understand? Is the purpose of this post to detect who are “the blind leading the unsighted”? Should we ignore all your future threads then?

This is extremely discourteous on those who have taken their time to comment on your topic just to be told we are the “blind leading the blind”. You are mocking us. Tell me it is not so and I’ll try to be charitable.

You didn’t claim it was speculation. You pretend to ask for an explanation for the “obvious contradiction” or mystery. Some of us have responded with our views. Instead of responding and articulating why our views are defective, you now broad brush our responses as speculation. That is such a lazy and cheap response.

 

[paduard]

The movie interstellar kind of gave me an idea on how i think it works

Time is relative so time “time” in heaven would be a different pace than time on earth

Yes, I liked that.
paduard

 

[John_Martin]

Moses went up a mountain to meet with God.
Elijah went up a mountain to see God.
Jesus took Peter, James, and John up a mountain where he met with Moses and Elijah.
Moses and Elijah went back down the mountain, we have records in Scriputure of Moses’ face shining after the encounter. Also records of Moses telling the Israelites that another prophet like him was to come and that they should “Listen to Him” (Moses eavesdropped as the Father said to Peter, James, and John, “This is my beloved Son, Listen to Him”.)

In the presence of God you know as God knows. As you recall Jesus saying, “Before Abraham was, I am”. God knows a mountain, God knows Moses, God knows Elijah, God knows his Son, and Peter and James and John and you. You “ARE” to God. That is it.

Time has to do with movement of change toward a terminus, with “before”, and “after”. Outside of time there is only being.

There is movement, but not movement of becoming. It is movement of operation. And it is operation of delight in being. Heaven is that state of “satisfaction” of the love that brought you to God, and there your “movement” is movement of delight in worship, praise, friendship with God. There is no more movement toward him, but there is playing in his presence, which is timeless.

 

[Beryllos]

Perhaps it is not so simple. Long ago — or was it Once Upon A Time? — I read an amusing essay about how complicated it is even to keep track of time in the chronological sense…

Not so. Time is the measurement of change. God is supposed to be ACTIVE. With action comes change, with change comes time. What kind of labels (weeks, months, etc…) you wish to assign to the change is irrelevant. There are only two possible states of existence: 1) stasis, which is frozen unchanging existence, or 2) active, changing existence…

Ah, I see that I posted in the wrong forum.