Time is ripe to officially consecrate Russia

[Goldy]

Sorry if this thread belongs on another forum. Also, forgive me if I come off sounding like a prophet with this particular thread…I’m not. I rarely post anything on this site, but I feel called to do so now. In case any of you haven’t noticed, Vladimir Putin is slowly aligning himself with his old Communist roots as well as establishing a relationship with Iran (selling arms to them). I know a lot of people felt that Russia was consecrated in 1984 by John Paul II, but he never made specific mention of Russia. He consecrated the WORLD to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. We looked at the fall of the Berlin Wall (I personally witnessed part of it on display in Fatima two years ago). These were truly blessings, especially since there was little or no bloodshed with the fall of the Eastern bloc. But let’s see what sort of country this “consecrated” Russia is like today. I don’t have particular stats on these, but here is what I know: The Catholic Church has little freedom in this country, abortion runs rampant, Putin is getting rich on foreign oil while the rest of the country is growing poorer and poorer. Does this sound like a country consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary? Our lady promised a period of peace to the world if Russia was consecrated. Is this the period of peace we are currently living in? I don’t know about you, but since 1984 the world hasn’t exactly been peaceful from my vantage point. I simply pose this question: What would the pope and all the bishops in the world have to lose if they consecrated Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary today? What harm would this do? It would be a simple gesture of goodwill toward the Russian people in hopes of world peace. I urge everyone on here to write to their bishops and priests, urging them to make this happen. I’ve rambled on long enough. God bless you and His Church

 

[Della]

I think we have to remember that Our Lady also subordinated herself to the Church in all things, and that the consecration of Russia was part of a private revelation which no pope is obliged to do. That John Paul II widened it to include the whole world was his prerogative as the Vicar of Christ.

As to the state of the world after the 1984 consecration, we did have a period of peace in the world. But, she never said it wouldn’t/couldn’t be broken by man’s sin. She warned us what would happen if we didn’t stop offending God, and we are seeing the results of our sins in the world, just as she said.

Let us pray for peace, just as Mary wishes us to, and make sure we are doing all we can to bring it to our own families, communities and country before we worry about what is happening in parts of the world we can do nothing about.

 

[Goldy]

I appreciate your response. But again I ask, What would it hurt to do the consecration? What does the Church have to lose if the pope were to consecrate Russia? The answer is very simple: NOTHING!! If Russia is consecrated, and the world continues to have violence, abortion, war, etc., then we could probably see that the consecration of 1984 was sufficient enough from Our Lady. But if it was consecrated and true peace came to the world (and I will add that it would need to be consecrated by the pope and ALL bishops of the world to be a true consecration), what a beautiful thing that would be!!

Also, although Fatima was a private revelation it was approved by the Church. Therefore all directives from Our Lady were to be taken very seriously.

 

[LilyM]

Well wasn’t the consecration actually required to be done by all the bishops of the world together, and not just the Pope himself?

If it was only up to the Pope it wouldn’t have taken decades to do in the first place. It was the fact that all the bishops were required that made it so difficult.

I for one would hate to see such a massive waste of resources for something that Sr Lucia said had already been done satisfactorily. As the fall of Communism in Europe demonstrated, since that appears to have been a large part of the purpose behind the Consecration.

 

[Goldy]

Well wasn’t the consecration actually required to be done by all the bishops of the world together, and not just the Pope himself?

If it was only up to the Pope it wouldn’t have taken decades to do in the first place. It was the fact that all the bishops were required that made it so difficult.

I for one would hate to see such a massive waste of resources for something that Sr Lucia said had already been done satisfactorily. As the fall of Communism in Europe demonstrated, since that appears to have been a large part of the purpose behind the Consecration.

Does Russia (which Our Lady wanted specifically mentioned) look to you like a country that is consecrated today?

 

[WanderAimlessly]

Does Russia (which Our Lady wanted specifically mentioned) look to you like a country that is consecrated today?

Like Lilly has said, it has already officially been done. Saying that has not only impunes the integrity of the late Pope John Paul II and Sr. Lucia.

 

[Goldy]

Like Lilly has said, it has already officially been done. Saying that has not only impunes the integrity of the late Pope John Paul II and Sr. Lucia.

Does Russia look like a country that is consecrated? And I really don’t see how you are implying that I’m questioning the integrity of two people who are well on their way to sainthood. Again I ask (because nobody has answered it yet): What sort of harm would consecrating Russia today do to our world and to the Church? You have nothing to lose and everything to gain from doing this. What would the Holy Father and the bishops have to lose?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Hmmmm, I seem to recall that Pope John Paul II did this and that Sr Lucia said it was done.

Does Russia (which Our Lady wanted specifically mentioned) look to you like a country that is consecrated today?

Russia today looks very much like a differenet country than when Pope John Paul II did the consecration.

Anyways, I agree with LilyM. The call to consecrate Russia came from a private revelation. The problem with the pope doing so can give people the false message that this private revelation is something more than this. Just look at this forum. There are a number of users who think that Fatima is more than just a private revelation, they think it is part of the Deposit of Faith. It is not.

 

[legeorge]

Does anyone think that “World Peace” will actually happen if the Pope follows the Fatima Crusader’s recipe for what they think the consecration of Russia should look like?
How about the Middle East?
Will all of the militant Muslim factions turn peaceful all of a sudden because of the consecration of Russia?
Why do so many people disbelieve the Holy Father and Sr. Lucia herself, who says that it is already done? Isn’t that a bit disobedient?

If we want world peace, it has to start with us and losing the idea that we want things done our way, or it isn’t good enough. We have to unite under the banner of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church and start obeying the Magesterium of the Church. We have to quit insisting that the Church do it “our way”. We have to do it God’s way, and the only way we can tell what that is, is to follow the Vicar of Christ and the Universal Church.
Besides, there will not be true peace on this earth until Jesus returns. We have to read the Bible, Catechism, and Magesterial teaching too. Not just information about apparitions and people’s personal interpretations of such private revelations. Radical traditionalists and Fatima Crusaders are beginning to look more and more like Protestants to me. But that is only my personal observation since I know lots of them. I might add that these are people I love and respect. I just think that they are being hijacked into thinking that a word, or a consecration, or a language, etc. , are the most important things. It takes our concentration off of what is truly important.
We just have to drop our own agendas and trust God. Then we will truly have peace in our hearts, our homes, our churches, our communities, etc. But not if we are going to constantly quibble about such things. All this quibbling just promotes dissent and dissatisfaction, not peace. But that is just my opinion and you are free to quibble amongst yourselves about it.

 

[Della]

Does Russia look like a country that is consecrated? And I really don’t see how you are implying that I’m questioning the integrity of two people who are well on their way to sainthood. Again I ask (because nobody has answered it yet): What sort of harm would consecrating Russia today do to our world and to the Church? You have nothing to lose and everything to gain from doing this. What would the Holy Father and the bishops have to lose?

Consecrating a country in no way guarantees it will become holy, and especially not over night nor necessarily as we would want it to. That takes lots of work and prayer, and a lot of work and prayer is being done, believe me.

You also have to remember that the press doesn’t tell us all the progress Russia has made since the fall of communism. It doesn’t tell us about the churches reopening and the return to faith of thousands of people because it isn’t sensational enough for them. With the press the motto is: “If it bleeds, it leads”–a mentality that leaves out most of the good being done in the world, and most especially any spiritual good, because the press doesn’t see it as important.

 

[legeorge]

Consecrating a country in no way guarantees it will become holy, and especially not over night nor necessarily as we would want it to. That takes lots of work and prayer, and a lot of work and prayer is being done, believe me.

You also have to remember that the press doesn’t tell us all the progress Russia has made since the fall of communism. It doesn’t tell us about the churches reopening and the return to faith of thousands of people because it isn’t sensational enough for them. With the press the motto is: “If it bleeds, it leads”–a mentality that leaves out most of the good being done in the world, and most especially any spiritual good, because the press doesn’t see it as important.

Good point!

I recently read that Russia is re-examining their abortion policies because their birth rate is so low, and they lose 700,000 people from their population each year. That is big, considering that Russia was the first country to legalize abortion.

 

[LilyM]

Does Russia (which Our Lady wanted specifically mentioned) look to you like a country that is consecrated today?

Does America, in your not-so-humble opinion? Yet America has indeed been consecrated to Mary, and that consecration was only re-done by the Bishops a few weeks ago! What exactly does a consecrated country look like anyway?

Pray tell, what is your qualification to judge in this matter that you can tell, so much better than Sr Lucia and John Paul 2, whether it was done satisfactorily or not?

 

[Goldy]

Does America, in your not-so-humble opinion? Yet America has indeed been consecrated to Mary, and that consecration was only re-done by the Bishops a few weeks ago! What exactly does a consecrated country look like anyway?

Pray tell, what is your qualification to judge in this matter that you can tell, so much better than Sr Lucia and John Paul 2, whether it was done satisfactorily or not?

Did I ever say I was judging JP2 or Sr. Lucia? The only thing I had asked was: What harm would it do to consecrate Russia? If it was already done, as so many of you believe, then nothing will change. If this does happen to be what Our Lady truly requested (the specific consecration of Russia), then things might change and get better. By the way, a consecrated country looks like one that doesn’t legalize abortion, doesn’t sell missiles to countries who hate Christians and Jews, and has a Catholic Church that is flourishing, just to name a few. Portugal resembles the closest thing to that. It’s not perfect, but it’s in a lot better shape than many other countries. And oh yeah, it was consecrated to the IHM and spared the horrors of World War II.

People, please stop judging what I’m saying. Step back, take a deep breath, and really look at this. You are assuming that I’m criticizing our late Holy Father and Sr. Lucia. I’m not!!! But can good, holy people sometimes make mistakes? I believe they can. That doesn’t make them any less holy!!! Maybe JP2 DID fulfill the request of the consecration of Russia. The fall of Communism in the 80’s probably sold most people on that. Great, so be it. But let’s just say, for kicks and giggles, that this isn’t really what Our Lady requested. Why not re-consecrate Russia, just in case. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Probably sounds silly…oh well.

Finally, please chill out on the Fatima Crusader/Protestant reference. Sounds like a lot of judging to me. This is a Catholic forum, right? Disagree with me until you’re blue in the face. That’s perfectly fine, and you have the right to do that. But the accusations and comparisons don’t exactly make you look good. God Bless

 

[The_Augustinian]

Hey, if the least it could do is get ************* and his ilk to hush up, I’m all for it.

 

[WanderAimlessly]

What would the Holy Father and the bishops have to lose?

Hey, if the least it could do is get ************* and his ilk to hush up, I’m all for it.

That is the problem, they won’t. They will be in your face saying they were right all along. I know, I put up with that for a number of years on another forum until I finally left and demanded (in a polite way), my account be deactivated.

 

[LilyM]

Goldy:

Did I ever say I was judging JP2 or Sr. Lucia? The only thing I had asked was: What harm would it do to consecrate Russia? If it was already done, as so many of you believe, then nothing will change. If this does happen to be what Our Lady truly requested (the specific consecration of Russia), then things might change and get better. By the way, a consecrated country looks like one that doesn’t legalize abortion, doesn’t sell missiles to countries who hate Christians and Jews, and has a Catholic Church that is flourishing, just to name a few. Portugal resembles the closest thing to that. It’s not perfect, but it’s in a lot better shape than many other countries. And oh yeah, it was consecrated to the IHM and spared the horrors of World War II.

People, please stop judging what I’m saying. Step back, take a deep breath, and really look at this. You are assuming that I’m criticizing our late Holy Father and Sr. Lucia. I’m not!!! But can good, holy people sometimes make mistakes? I believe they can. That doesn’t make them any less holy!!! Maybe JP2 DID fulfill the request of the consecration of Russia. The fall of Communism in the 80’s probably sold most people on that. Great, so be it. But let’s just say, for kicks and giggles, that this isn’t really what Our Lady requested. Why not re-consecrate Russia, just in case. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Probably sounds silly…oh well.

Finally, please chill out on the Fatima Crusader/Protestant reference. Sounds like a lot of judging to me. This is a Catholic forum, right? Disagree with me until you’re blue in the face. That’s perfectly fine, and you have the right to do that. But the accusations and comparisons don’t exactly make you look good. God Bless

Did you even read my post, seriously. Firstly you didn’t need to say you were judging them - because that’s precisely what you have done.

Secondly - America IS a country consecrated to Our Lady and it has been for some years - the Bishops of America consecratd America to her *again *just a few weeks back.

Take a good look at America - does it look REMOTELY like your idea of what a consecrated country should be? Or does it look much more like the opposite? Where did Our Lady say that all the problems of any country would magically be solved by consecrating it to her?

Do you have any idea of the time, money and effort it takes to get ALL THE BISHOPS OF THE WORLD together to do something like that? Which is what would have to be done. Sheesh! Can you really think of nothing better or more urgent they should be doing? If you can’t, ask me - I can reel off a list as long as your arm.

 

[kencando]

I don’t believe that the concecration of Russia officially has taken place. I know Fr. Charles Shelton and a group of people went to Red Square with a statue of the Blessed Virgin but in the end were unable to fulfill their mission. They are still working on this but the recent years have been very difficult and a return to communism is a growing concern. Also the Russian ortodox church is not yet ready to join in the unity with the church of Rome. That possibly is one of the reasons that the pope hasn’t yet concrecrated Russia and that is one of the things that would be hurt if the pope stepped on toes.

 

[dympnha]

Was Russia really concecrated? I don’t know. But for the moment Russia is no longer a danger to the world (once the population becomes Muslim they’ll be a problem but’s that’s a good 20 years down the road). I think Our Lady came through with her end of the deal. Besides, after over 70 years of communism it will take decades for the Russian spirit to recover. They lived in cruelty and paranoia for so long that it’s ridiculous to expect too much from them yet.

 

[Fr_Ambrose]

Was Russia really concecrated? I don’t know. But for the moment Russia is no longer a danger to the world (once the population becomes Muslim they’ll be a problem but’s that’s a good 20 years down the road).

It is a problem for Europe everywhere. I see that last year in Brussels, usually thought of as a Catholic city, 57% of the babies born were Muslim.

 

[john_wi]

Consecrating a country in no way guarantees it will become holy, and especially not over night nor necessarily as we would want it to. That takes lots of work and prayer, and a lot of work and prayer is being done, believe me.

You also have to remember that the press doesn’t tell us all the progress Russia has made since the fall of communism. It doesn’t tell us about the churches reopening and the return to faith of thousands of people because it isn’t sensational enough for them. With the press the motto is: “If it bleeds, it leads”–a mentality that leaves out most of the good being done in the world, and most especially any spiritual good, because the press doesn’t see it as important.