Time is subjective hence God cannot live outside of time

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In here I attempt to argue that time is subjective. We first have to note that we can divide the world into internal/subjective/spiritual and external/objective/physical. Our experiences also can be divided into subjective and objective depending on observed event. Lets focus on objective events which are related to something happening in physical. Objective events happen in the external world in a specific form. We however only experience now and have a memory of past since we can divide events into past, what we have experienced, now, what we are experiencing, and future, what we are expecting. In simple word, time is subjective for what concern our experiences and there is no need to assume existence of objective time since one has to assume the existence of all events which belong to objective past, now and future.
 
False. Time is objective. The universe has a beginning and it will have an end. Thus it’s objective: it is all confined within one period and is moving towards that end. We as humans simply experience time as warped and subjective because our perception of reality can appear to slightly alter. For example if you’re in a car crash, time seems to pass super fast. If you’re in line at the BMV, it seems to go on forever. Yet we know that truly it is set and did not speed up or slow down. Ever since the universe came into being, the “big clock of the universe” started and thus time began. God MUST exist outside time. Only someone who exists outside of time could create it. Read st. Augstustines confession on time and God
 
God is not a creature to live inside time or outside of time.

God is God.

All of creation -including time- is contingent upon God who creates all that is. And causes all that is to continue to be…without God we would not be etc.

God is not contingent upon what God has created…what is created is contingent on God.
 
Beryllos said:
No, time is objective. Our experience of time is subjective.
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It is going to depend on how you define time. If you define one second as the duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium 133 atom, then time is objective. However, if you define time as an intellectual concept that enables humans to sequence and compare events, then it is subjective. For example, St. Augustine says that time is a distention of the mind (Confessions 11.26) by which we simultaneously grasp the past in memory, the present by attention, and the future by expectation.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time#Definitions_and_standards
 
Approaching God as if God were a contingent creature is like me approaching my children as if they were rocks on the planet Mars.

But with much greater disparity…
 
If Time were purely subjective, then Space would also be subjective, since they are both merely dimensions of matter.

And in that case, I’m sure that you won’t mind someone throwing a rock at you, since the objective reality would be that you will simply manipulate time/space and warp away from the rock, or make it back up and never hit you.
 
It would seem that one actually enjoys being told they are wrong ad nauseam.
 
Bahman said:
Could you please tell me what sense is responsible for experiencing time?
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All the senses. ‘Time’ is the measurement of changes around us. As Tomdstone said it is both objective and subjective depending on what aspect of it you’re measuring. We have given it a finite “quantity” which allows us to measure and catalog things in a sensible way, and this measurement is enacted on a day to day basis by observing the changes that occur around us. We measure time by the change of the light from the sun, or the sun’s position in the sky, or the temperature throughout the day, or the number of ticks a clock has gone through, or the number of levels we’ve beaten in a game.

As to your argument, you haven’t really made one. You’ve put a bunch of words together in a form that vaguely resembles a sentence, but the sentence doesn’t mean anything because it’s wholly irrational. Our personal interpretation of time is subjective, but time itself is an objective reality of the physical world. This is proven by the fact that things change. If things didn’t change then I’d agree that you could argue that there is no time, but since things do change there has to be some medium in which the changes occur (just as there has to be a medium for sound to pass from one point to another). This medium is what we “time.”

Even if time were wholly subjective as you irrationally argue that would have absolutely no effect on God. It’s a non-sequitor argument, the conclusion doesn’t flow from the premise. Time as we understand it is an aspect of physical reality. Since God created teh physical reality, it is necessary that he is not contingent on it, just as the programmer’s existence is not contingent on the program he writes. As such, the nature of God is wholly separated from the nature of Time. While God, as the creator, can affect the flow of time, and manipulation of time would have no affect on God.
 
Bahman said:
Could you please tell me what sense is responsible for experiencing time?
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I do not know the neurological or psychological basis of time perception, but others have studied it. I’m in a hurry (as my sense of time informs me?), so with some reluctance I quote Wikipedia. Sorry.

wikipedia: Time perception
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Although the perception of time is not associated with a specific sensory system, psychologists and neuroscientists suggest that humans do have a system governing the perception of time [citation: Rao SM, Mayer AR, Harrington DL (Mar 2001). “The evolution of brain activation during temporal processing”. *Nature Neuroscience
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4 (3): 317–323]. It is composed of a highly distributed system involving the cerebral cortex, cerebellum and basal ganglia. One particular component, the suprachiasmatic nucleus, is responsible for the circadian (or daily) rhythm, while other cell clusters appear to be capable of shorter-range (ultradian) timekeeping.
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What an uncharitable thing to say. This is what philosophy is all about - testing and refining ideas. Not every argument is something you’re going to agree with, but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be put forward or considered.

That being said, think the evidence for General and Special relativity shows that there is an “objective” time out there. I mean, if time even exists.
 
Rhubarb said:
What an uncharitable thing to say. This is what philosophy is all about - testing and refining ideas. Not every argument is something you’re going to agree with, but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be put forward or considered.
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You need to look at all of the threads that were started on this theme or variations of it prior to your judgment.
 
DCNBILL said:
You need to look at all of the threads that were started on this theme or variations of it prior to your judgment.
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Here is the short list.

Time is subjective hence God cannot live outside of time Bahman

Timeless God cannot know the current time hence cannot sustain the creation ( 1 2 3 4 5 … Last Page) Bahman

What is time? ( 1 2 3 4) Bahman

A sustained being cannot perfomr any act (think and decide) on its own Bahman

Changelss God and fate ( 1 2) Bahman

God’s foreknowledge and fatalism ( 1 2 3 4 5 … Last Page) Bahman

How could we have a single experience if God is sustaining us? Bahman

Dilemma of timeless God and ephemeral creation ( 1 2) Bahman

Act creation: everything or nothing=knowing nothing or everything Bahman

Experienc only happens in absence of existence ( 1 2 3) Bahman

Dilemma of uncertainty principal and God foreknowledge ( 1 2 3) Bahman

Dilemma of time bound and timeless ( 1 2) Bahman

God as a objective being ( 1 2) Bahman

Consciousness cannot be objective hence God cannot know our decision given situation ( 1 2 3) Bahman

Existence is secondary hence all ontological argument are false Bahman

Nothing exists at the moment of experience, now Bahman

Changeless God cannot create ( 1 2 3) Bahman

No change is possible without consciousness Bahman
 
Rhubarb said:
What an uncharitable thing to say. This is what philosophy is all about - testing and refining ideas. Not every argument is something you’re going to agree with, but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be put forward or considered.

That being said, think the evidence for General and Special relativity shows that there is an “objective” time out there. I mean, if time even exists.
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Bahaman has created an innumerable number of these threads, and we’ve offered him both analysis and advice. He refuses to acknowledge either. No matter how thoroughly his argument is rebutted he sidesteps the refutation and continues to state the same thing repeatedly as though it were fact. With him, it’s no so much that he is testing and refining as it is him having a bullhorn and ignoring the people in the crowd…
 
God is GOD! He can be and do whatever he wants. He can live in and out of time etc etc etc.
 
DCNBILL said:
Here is the short list.

Time is subjective hence God cannot live outside of time Bahman

Timeless God cannot know the current time hence cannot sustain the creation ( 1 2 3 4 5 … Last Page) Bahman

What is time? ( 1 2 3 4) Bahman

A sustained being cannot perfomr any act (think and decide) on its own Bahman

Changelss God and fate ( 1 2) Bahman

God’s foreknowledge and fatalism ( 1 2 3 4 5 … Last Page) Bahman

How could we have a single experience if God is sustaining us? Bahman

Dilemma of timeless God and ephemeral creation ( 1 2) Bahman

Act creation: everything or nothing=knowing nothing or everything Bahman

Experienc only happens in absence of existence ( 1 2 3) Bahman

Dilemma of uncertainty principal and God foreknowledge ( 1 2 3) Bahman

Dilemma of time bound and timeless ( 1 2) Bahman

God as a objective being ( 1 2) Bahman

Consciousness cannot be objective hence God cannot know our decision given situation ( 1 2 3) Bahman

Existence is secondary hence all ontological argument are false Bahman

Nothing exists at the moment of experience, now Bahman

Changeless God cannot create ( 1 2 3) Bahman

No change is possible without consciousness Bahman
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He has a lot of time on his hands…🙂
 
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