Time to leave parish

[stmaria]

You really believe a Roman Catholic Parish could cause you to lose your salvation?

A bad Catholic priest could cause one to lose their salvation. A liberal Priest that gives liberal interpretations to the teachings of the Church, believes in women priests, contraception, that missing Mass is not a mortal sin.
Many of today priests went to seminaries where Catholic doctrine was NEVER taught. Here is an excerpt from the book *Good-bye Good Men *that proves my point.

An entire chapter of the book is about Father Trigilio and his path to priesthood.
“Father John Trigilio, who co hosts Web of Faith, a popular apologetics program on Mother Angelica’s EWTN television network, recounted his seminary days…spanning three seminaries, three dioceses, and a host of rejections from others…because he overtly supported the teachings of the Church, he was targeted as an “orthodox” candidate”…during his first week at St Marks seminary in Erie, Pennsylvania] he was was accosted by a faculty priest, “ I hear you don’t want women priests?”…and then the priest warned me that if I wanted to get ordained, I’d better get those ‘old’and ‘outmoded’ ideas out of my head.”…I remember being humiliated because I wanted to pray the rosary…I think a lot of the younger students were sucked in by the gay subculture there…the students were actively coached to keep quite about the seminary’s strange goings-on…at Mary Immaculate Seminary in Northampton, Pennsylvania…four years of indoctrination…some guys wore women’s clothing, lingerie, makeup…[the faculty] would come right out and deny dogmas of the Catholic faith…we had a nun who taught us liturgy, She maintained that sacrifice is a pagan idea that needed to be expunged from the Mass. She also taught us that the Church has only six sacraments since she cannot receive the Sacrament of Holy Orders.”

 

[rosary_for_life]

And they are not printed in the NO English Missal?

True, but I believe the Latin mass is simpler, with fewer versions, and the whole mass from start to finish is there in order.

 

[HelenMary]

This became quite a debate about TLM versus NO when there should not be. As was stated earlier, both are fully acceptable. It simply proves how beloved the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is to the laity.

As for the original subject, I have been tempted to leave my parish. The only reason I haven’t is because I know it would be wrong. We have a pastor who is approaching 80. He is a good, but seemingly indifferent, leader. He has allowed the woman who is titled the business manager to run the parish. She dictates policies, hires and fires, and is keeper of the keys. He reads the paper and plays solitaire on the computer.

She signs letters and other documents for the pastor. She has hired Protestants for various jobs. She won’t allow the altar society to clean the church but hired a $4,000 a month company to do so (and then they asked for more monetary contributions). She decides how the Sacraments (Baptism, First Holy Communion, and Marriage) will be implemented. She has been so difficult with parishioners and associate priests alike that our once robust membership has dwindled remarkably. People simply go elsewhere. We faithful pray that she will retire (even though she’s not 65 yet) when the pastor does next year, but it isn’t likely.

What else can we do? We may be the Bishop’s parish but we don’t know whether she has his ear or not. Church politics as they are and people being people, he might be annoyed if we complain about her. Then, we’d only alienate ourselves from our own shepherd. Meanwhile, attendance drops and we risk being closed or losing our daily Masses! May God’s Holy Will be done, but I pray nothing so drastic may occur.

Has anyone else experienced such a thing? If so, what did you do? Any advice would be most appreciated.

 

[qui_est_ce]

As for the original subject, I have been tempted to leave my parish. The only reason I haven’t is because I know it would be wrong. We have a pastor who is approaching 80. He is a good, but seemingly indifferent, leader. He has allowed the woman who is titled the business manager to run the parish. She dictates policies, hires and fires, and is keeper of the keys. He reads the paper and plays solitaire on the computer.

What else can we do? We may be the Bishop’s parish but we don’t know whether she has his ear or not. Church politics as they are and people being people, he might be annoyed if we complain about her. Then, we’d only alienate ourselves from our own shepherd. Meanwhile, attendance drops and we risk being closed or losing our daily Masses! May God’s Holy Will be done, but I pray nothing so drastic may occur.

Has anyone else experienced such a thing? If so, what did you do? Any advice would be most appreciated.

Yes, we had the same problem in our parish. Elderly priest, etc. He ran through all the money, and didn’t pay the payroll taxes or insurance withheld from teachers’ checks. He ran us to the ground financially and spiritually. The Archdiocese must have known, because they loaned us $50,000.00. Nobody in the parish knw a thing, even though Archdiocesan rules require an annual financial statement. The plaster was peeling, the roof was leaking.

People were leaving. They were seeking spirituality. I didn’t blame them, but it wasn’t right for me. A scandal happened in choir. One of the choir members was having an affair with the choir director’s husband. Both couples were THE marriage preparation group. Forever stamped in photograph in parish directory. The choir fell apart. Choir director was into “inclusive” language and changed the words of the psalms to be PC. They even sang “Jesu, Joy of OUR Desiring.” Talk about rewriting history. Can I tell you how many times I was asked to leave choir because I objected to this? I came back faithfullly to every rehearsal and mass. Others would forget it was their turn to cantor, and I filled in.

This was what I came into when I moved into the parish 10 years ago. But still, I felt an undercurrent of energy. I was newly divorced raising two children. My energies were at home.

Then four years ago we got a new pastor, and shortly thereafter Archbishop Burke. My kids were old enough that I could get involved with the parish. I found out a core group had been praying for our parish. Their prayers were answered. We are dynamic. We have Christ Renews His Parish, we have health ministry, Bible study, grief ministry, we have an outstanding director of music, PHD in Organ and Liturgy, Choir loft is full. We have weekly Adoration.

Now, every night of the week, every nook and cranny of the parish buildings is lit up for all the activities going on. It is a true miracle. The people who left came back.

You have to pray, pray, pray, go to mass, go to Adoration as often as possible.

Having said all that, I am not sure if at this stage of my spiritual journey I would be able to bear it all over again. But Christ does not put more on our shoulders than we can bear.

Somehow, I knew it would be wrong to leave, yet what was going on was wrong. Is it because things are so great now that I forget how hard it was when our parish was drifting?

The early Christians suffered death and martydom, and we wallow in weakness and shallowness.

 

[JoeyWarren]

Thank you for that post. That is what I was trying to hammer in to some of these people. But you put it in a more swallowable form.:clapping:

 

[HelenMary]

Thank you so much for the encouragement, qui est ce! We’ve been praying, and we’ll continue to do so. Thankfully, our pastor has not been that neglectful or criminal, nor have we (to my knowledge) had any affairs among church workers.

I suppose I am hoping for a more dynamic community as you now have. Our pastor says that he is afraid of lawsuits and only allows the minimum of activity on church grounds. We have Masses (or Communion services because the priests are at a meeting or it’s their day off) every day, a CCD program, a small RCIAA program, and a Scripture Study class. The choir only sings at high Mass on Sunday but never during summer. We finally had a new Youth Director after two years but he left abruptly after a couple of months and we don’t know why.

There is hardly any “fellowship” except in the parking lot after Mass because there is no Church Hall and no intention to build one apparently. CCD classes are held in a very old and cramped, inaccessible building. We want a community. We want to get to know our fellow Catholics but it is not easy.

Anyway, again I thank you. I will keep praying and be as bold as St Catherine who “laid siege to Heaven.”

 

[JoeyWarren]

I suppose I am hoping for a more dynamic community as you now have.

We have a very dynamic community as well. Our Priest believes strongly in Time & Talent & Treasure.

Our pastor says that he is afraid of lawsuits and only allows the minimum of activity on church grounds.

Same here. For a moment I thought you went to my Parish. But our Priest has eased up on this mentality.

We finally had a new Youth Director after two years but he left abruptly after a couple of months and we don’t know why.

I would have found out why by contacting him. If he left because of problem then the problem cannot be fixed we you don’t find out what the problem is.

There is hardly any “fellowship” except in the parking lot after Mass because there is no Church Hall and no intention to build one apparently.

An aggressive TTT program should correct this. Our own Stewardship committee went on a retreat to Wichita Kansas which is the Most Nationaly Known Successful StewardShip Program

( PDFversion = gbdioc.org/pdf/stewardship2005ServiceFrancis.pdf )

I would reccomend a committee retreat for you as well.

CCD classes are held in a very old and cramped, inaccessible building. We want a community. We want to get to know our fellow Catholics but it is not easy.

Ditto

 

[qui_est_ce]

Thank you for that post. That is what I was trying to hammer in to some of these people. But you put it in a more swallowable form.:clapping:

to whom are you speaking?

 

[JoeyWarren]

to whom are you speaking?

You! :clapping:

 

[qui_est_ce]

Thank you so much for the encouragement, qui est ce! We’ve been praying, and we’ll continue to do so.

Prayer works. I haven’t figured it out, but it works.

Our pastor says that he is afraid of lawsuits and only allows the minimum of activity on church grounds.

That’s what you have insurance for! He’s a scaredy cat.We have had lawsuits. One was a woman (not a parishioner) who parked her car on the church lot ar 5:00 AM to distribute commercial flyers. She fell and sued. She lost!

We finally had a new Youth Director after two years but he left abruptly after a couple of months and we don’t know why.

We combine youth group with five neighboring parishes. This makes room for more kids. And a lot more money for a dynamic YGD.

.

There is hardly any “fellowship” except in the parking lot after Mass because there is no Church Hall and no intention to build one apparently. CCD classes are held in a very old and cramped, inaccessible building. We want a community. We want to get to know our fellow Catholics but it is not easy.

Although we have coffee and donuts once a month and fish fries, we also meet after mass at McDonald’s sometimes. You should try that, it’s amazing how it will pick up. More and more will come. It’s really easy for people with kids too. Our priests hug us too after mass. I know it sounds terrible, but they do it openly and honestly. It’s like a dad giving you a hug for being good. I used to not be a huggy person. Priests need hugs too! :grouphug:

to whom are you speaking?

JoeyWarren:

You!

You learned quoting!

 

[HelenMary]

Prayer works. I haven’t figured it out, but it works.

Agreed!

That’s what you have insurance for! He’s a scaredy cat.We have had lawsuits. One was a woman (not a parishioner) who parked her car on the church lot ar 5:00 AM to distribute commercial flyers. She fell and sued. She lost!

Yes, he is a scaredy cat We’re hoping the next pastor won’t be.

We combine youth group with five neighboring parishes. This makes room for more kids. And a lot more money for a dynamic YGD.

Although we have coffee and donuts once a month and fish fries, we also meet after mass at McDonald’s sometimes. You should try that, it’s amazing how it will pick up. More and more will come. It’s really easy for people with kids too.

Those are some great ideas! I will mention them to my husband, my parents, and a couple of friends. Actually, I’ve toyed with just bringing a homemade coffee cake and a thermos of coffee or something to share with people after Mass even if it is in the parking lot but so many of the regulars at weekday morning Mass are elderly. I don’t know if they could handle that.

Our priests hug us too after mass. I know it sounds terrible, but they do it openly and honestly. It’s like a dad giving you a hug for being good. I used to not be a huggy person. Priests need hugs too!

I am not shocked. I think that’s wonderful because they are people too. Our pastor doesn’t stand outside the main door of the church after Mass to greet people (he usually goes over to the sacristy door), but other priests do stop and shake hands and greet parishioners. In fact, our present associate pastor actually welcomes everyone at the beginning of Mass “especially those who are visiting.” It’s a step in the right direction.

Mainly, I was concerned about the business manager. It’s not that she’s “evil incarnate” or anything so threatening, but I do know that she is a control freak. If she is abusing her position in these known ways, what else might she be doing? I try not to listen to rumors but I have seen the aforementioned things she’s done. I suppose I am just so ashamed that she turns the poor and needy away from the office and sends them to the Methodist or the Baptist churches. I am also ashamed that I/we let her get away with this because we are such sheep, afraid of making any waves.

 

[JoeyWarren]

You learned quoting!

?:nope:

 

[Sheeniac]

This resurgence is only because of the Pope Benedict XVI. Will it hold steam with the next Pope in a couple of years? Only time will tell. Now the question begs from you that hold the TM in such high regard. Was Pope John Paul a heretic because he was silent on the issue or at least he was a bad Pope because he was silent?

Actually, Pope JP2 did formally allow for the use of the TLM. I wouldn’t call that silent! No one here is insinuating that he was a heretic.

Pope B16 has merely loosened the restrictions on priests saying it. Basically, he’s said that it never was banned and priests need not get special permission from their bishop.

I rarely stop by this forum because I’ve only been to 1 TLM, and have little to say about it. But some of the posts on this thread have me gasping!

The Pope sees V2 as a return to the roots of Christianity (based on all of the books I’ve read - some none-too-flattering to the Pope) . The TLM is part of the liturgy and V2 did not ban it. He is correcting the errors that came out of the Council in his role as shepherd of the flock. Thus, the TLM exists independently of the Pope, and whoever occupies that office. Tradition (capital T) exists now, existed yesterday, and will exist tomorrow.

For several months, I had the luck to attend a daily mass that was the best I had ever been too. The reverence and seriousness of this daily mass was almost such that you could cut it with a knife. I thank God that He gave me this opportunity for a couple of months. It was an NO mass.

Not everyone who likes the TLM or Tradition falls into the category of anti-NO.

 

[pjmgoff]

I recently did the same thing. Although there were no major abuses, I felt I was better served by changing parishes.

The parish I now belong to has both the Ordinary Form (NO) and Extraordinary Form (TLM) Masses. I go exclusively to the Ordinary Form Mass which is celebrated:

1. 
   *]Said Ad Orientum.
   *]Chant is often used for the Gloria, Sanctus, and Angus Dei (priest dependent)
   *]Latin is used (again priest dependent) for the Eucharistic Prayers.
   *]Only organ music except for the occasional “Orchestral Mass” which uses symphonic instruments.
   *]Communion on the tongue at the altar rail.
   *]Exclusive use of Altar Boys.

 

[pjmgoff]

I’d also suggest finding a parish that has Perpetual Adoration so one can make a comitment one hour a week…a great atmosphere to ask for help and guidence.

 

[qui_est_ce]

But some of the posts on this thread have me gasping!
Thus, the TLM exists independently of the Pope, and whoever occupies that office. Tradition (capital T) exists now, existed yesterday, and will exist tomorrow.

For several months, I had the luck to attend a daily mass that was the best I had ever been too. The reverence and seriousness of this daily mass was almost such that you could cut it with a knife. I thank God that He gave me this opportunity for a couple of months. It was an NO mass.

Not everyone who likes the TLM or Tradition falls into the category of anti-NO.

Thank you. TLM’s somehow think NO’s are not reverent enough!

Count me in on the gasping of the NO. My experience of the reverence of NO mass via my daily participation mirrors yours.

One thing to remember is the NO mass is also in Latin. Latin mass does note equal Tridentine mass!

 

[chotock]

I just sent an email requesting that I be removed from the Server schedule.

Thanks for the prayers, they do help

 

[crenfro]

As for the original subject, I have been tempted to leave my parish. The only reason I haven’t is because I know it would be wrong. We have a pastor who is approaching 80. He is a good, but seemingly indifferent, leader. He has allowed the woman who is titled the business manager to run the parish.

…

Has anyone else experienced such a thing? If so, what did you do? Any advice would be most appreciated.

I took a break during a homily once when our priest allowed a preacher from another faith to give the sermon, I will and have gone to another parish church for Mass when the parish I’m a member of doesn’t follow things, I have even changed parishes once, which I regret because I didn’t try to address the problem from within first.

What I’d do first, since you asked for ADVICE! , would be to examine my conscience, go to confession, discuss the matter with God as well as the wisest and kindest person I know, be honest enough with myself to admit truly what my motives are, and if they are only out of love then I’d follow the most helpful course of action that I believed was God’s will.

I’m so sorry there is even a discussion about this topic.

 

[SemperFidelis]

I’m so sorry there is even a discussion about this topic.

Well that’s what this forum is for…