Time to leave?

[Heathcliff80]

I have followed these forums for quite some time. The username I’m under is a new one. Having prayed and searched for guidance I’m still not sure what to do. Looking at what most responses have been on here to the issue I’m going to bring up I feel I know the answer.

I am a gay catholic and have a non-catholic partner. We are monogamous. Both of us contribute as much as we can to charitable causes and the parish, take in stray animals, help our parish out when needed (various things e.g. Transport of other members). Yet more and more I’m being told that I cannot be a Catholic unless I give up my partner.

In good conscience I can not break the heart of someone I deeply love and respect just because the CCC tells me too. When I had a breakdown due to employment difficulties the parish did not support. He did.

He has always respected my faith; if I follow what is being told I will now throw all that respect back because our life is not in line with church teaching. There is no other church than the Catholic Church, however, I am truly torn and I think it’s time for me to go. Has anyone else been in this situation?

 

[on_the_hill]

Whoa.

At first I thought you mean, leave the forum.

But that’s not what you mean, is it?

 

[Catholic1954]

I have followed these forums for quite some time. The username I’m under is a new one. Having prayed and searched for guidance I’m still not sure what to do. Looking at what most responses have been on here to the issue I’m going to bring up I feel I know the answer.

I am a gay catholic and have a non-catholic partner. We are monogamous. Both of us contribute as much as we can to charitable causes and the parish, take in stray animals, help our parish out when needed (various things e.g. Transport of other members). Yet more and more I’m being told that I cannot be a Catholic unless I give up my partner.

In good conscience I can not break the heart of someone I deeply love and respect just because the CCC tells me too. When I had a breakdown due to employment difficulties the parish did not support. He did.

He has always respected my faith; if I follow what is being told I will now throw all that respect back because our life is not in line with church teaching. There is no other church than the Catholic Church, however, I am truly torn and I think it’s time for me to go. Has anyone else been in this situation?

You do not have to give up the respect and friendship you have with your friend, only the sinful activities.

 

[SuperLuigi]

I have followed these forums for quite some time. The username I’m under is a new one. Having prayed and searched for guidance I’m still not sure what to do. Looking at what most responses have been on here to the issue I’m going to bring up I feel I know the answer.

I am a gay catholic and have a non-catholic partner. We are monogamous. Both of us contribute as much as we can to charitable causes and the parish, take in stray animals, help our parish out when needed (various things e.g. Transport of other members). Yet more and more I’m being told that I cannot be a Catholic unless I give up my partner.

In good conscience I can not break the heart of someone I deeply love and respect just because the CCC tells me too. When I had a breakdown due to employment difficulties the parish did not support. He did.

He has always respected my faith; if I follow what is being told I will now throw all that respect back because our life is not in line with church teaching. There is no other church than the Catholic Church, however, I am truly torn and I think it’s time for me to go. Has anyone else been in this situation?

Sure!

You don’t have to be GLTBQ in a gay relationship to be in a situation like that. If covers a lot of real estate.

What you can’t give up on is the Truth, which is always will be Jesus and His One True Church.

I’ll pray for you to find the strength to do what is best and make the right decision.

 

[grasscutter]

You do not have to give up the respect and friendship you have with your friend, only the sinful activities.

I agree with the above post. Is it possible for the two of you to live celibately while still providing each other with mutual emotional/financial support? Maybe you could phrase it like “I love God, you and myself enough to want us to get to Heaven.” That seems simplistic, but is that something that might work?

Consider of course that most couples, after many years together, regard the sexual aspect of their lives with less importance than the things that endure and provide a basis for the reason of their relationship.

 

[Ana_v]

He has always respected my faith; if I follow what is being told I will now throw all that respect back because our life is not in line with church teaching. There is no other church than the Catholic Church, however, I am truly torn and I think it’s time for me to go. Has anyone else been in this situation?

Remember that the greatest kind of love, is not love the emotion, but love the action, which proceeds from the will. The most loving thing to do for your partner is that which will advance him toward union with God. He was made for God, and you can be instrumental in fulfilling his eternal joy. Remember that temporal happiness is fleeting! In this case, yes, it would mean to cease any aspect of the relationship that is sinful or near occasion of sin, and that would include discontinuing your status as a same-sex couple.

This isn’t easy. Yet, you did answer the question that I was going to ask … I was going to ask you, Why are you a Catholic? (Not in a confrontational way, but only to stir reflection, I lament that I cannot express my actual tone of voice through text). And you answered it … it is the only Church founded by Christ.

Thus, you recognize the Truth, but you struggle to live it. This is the spiritual struggle of every one of us this side of Heaven. Yours is particularly challenging because of the cultural climate and because the strength of our emotions and desires can overpower our reason. And because every person, in as much as they are unique persons, have unique temptations and sorrows. Your circumstance is not going to be identical to that of another person in a same-sex relationship, or a divorced Catholic’s, or a Catholic that is in love with a consecrated person etc.

Your sufferings are and will be unique. At the same time, you will never be alone. I have been tempted to leave the Faith before. I ask the Saints to intercede for me. I pray to St. Michael daily. By grace I’m still here.

I will pray for you! Remember also that Our Lord said that no greater love has a man than to lay down his life for his friends! When we live according to Love, we are going to suffer. To those who suffer in Faith Jesus says, Rejoice and be glad, yours is the Kingdom!

 

[boomerang]

Could you join the Church of England? They would be more welcoming. If you stay in the CC you would have to hide your relationship, and that would be stressful. Better to join another church.

 

[Petaro]

I have followed these forums for quite some time. The username I’m under is a new one. Having prayed and searched for guidance I’m still not sure what to do. Looking at what most responses have been on here to the issue I’m going to bring up I feel I know the answer.

I am a gay catholic and have a non-catholic partner. We are monogamous. Both of us contribute as much as we can to charitable causes and the parish, take in stray animals, help our parish out when needed (various things e.g. Transport of other members). Yet more and more I’m being told that I cannot be a Catholic unless I give up my partner.

In good conscience I can not break the heart of someone I deeply love and respect just because the CCC tells me too. When I had a breakdown due to employment difficulties the parish did not support. He did.

He has always respected my faith; if I follow what is being told I will now throw all that respect back because our life is not in line with church teaching. There is no other church than the Catholic Church, however, I am truly torn and I think it’s time for me to go. Has anyone else been in this situation?

I believe I understand the moral dilemma you find yourself in. You know from your knowledge as a Catholic that you are living an illicit sexual life under the teaching of the Church. The Church is not wrong. However, you also correctly believe that you have a moral responsibility to your partner, who doesn’t share your cognitive dissonance as he is not Catholic.
I can feel for you in that the church is rarely there at a parish level for anyone, yet they expect you to walk away from your loyal partner.
To the observer, there is no easy way out for you. You must consider your conscience within the confines of the teaching of the Church. To continue in your present lifestyle is to leave the Church, and both you and the Church would be the loser.
However if you truly accept the truth of the teaching of the Church as that of Christ your saviour, then do you not fail Him personally in your lifestyle? This only you can decide in your heart after considerable prayer.
The middle path would be to suspend sexual connections with your partner whilst still living with him. This is a hard and very painful road , having repercussions on your relationship with your partner who you love, as well as continual temptations which may be too much to ask of anyone. It is the only road I can see if you determine that the church is right in its teachings, which in my opinion it is, and yet you love your partner and question why he must suffer for your beliefs.
Many people leave the Church because its teachings are too hard, not because they are wrong. Many Catholics take the pill and yet find absolution in their faulty consciences guided not by truth but by self-interest and convenience. I don’t judge them, nor should anyone judge you. Only you knows what your love of Jesus means to you and the service you desire to give Him.
I don’t know anyone who has not made moral accommodations to suit their circumstances. We all live under the same glass windows. However, how weak our faith and resolve must look to our Lord. Let’s hope we are not the lukewarm. We are all fair weather friends to He who is most loyal.
I pray for the courage and faith you need to determine your next step towards Christ, who after all demands our complete loyalty.

 

[SecretGarden]

Dear Heathcliff80,
I am sorry that the Catholic church and these forums have let you down. Unfortunately both are governed by humans who haven’t grasped the concept: love your neighbour with all of your heart, soul and mind etc. As a result, they have a sinful nature and don’t treat you with the respect you deserve. Everyone regardless of their sexual orientation deserves to be treated with love, respect and supported through life’s trials. Unfortunately the church has failed you in that respect. I am really sorry about that.

The question whether or not you should remain with your partner is a personal choice. There will always be Church doctrine which will guide you in various directions but the decision is yours to discover do you wish to travel in those directions or not. God loves you unconditionally and it’s up to you to decide which denomination you decide to live out your Christian faith. I know some catholics who are gay and who are active christians. I have also seen the general christian atmosphere (inside all Christian denominations) in terms of homosexuality, it seems to be a place where the church in general needs to grow up and learn how to love their neighbour. It is never easy but everyone is given a cross to carry.

I’m not gay so I can’t help you on that level but I have been to many churches where for various reasons, I stayed for a while until I felt God called me to another church. To stay or leave is a big decision which I suggest that you pray about and then explore the other churches in your area and see what feels right. It will take time but eventually the right place will be found. It could be back in your present parish or a different Protestant church.

I don’t know where God is leading you but I want to encourage you to continue to ask your questions here. Some people will be jerks and others will love you as their brother in Christ.

No matter where you go, there will be doctrine that you don’t agree with. You will meet some wonderful people who you will love with all of your heart and there will be others that you would love to put them on the first flight to Mars because they are first class jerks and you don’t want to see them again.

I know someone who was Catholic and gay and he left the Catholic church a few decades ago and became an anglican minister about a year ago. If you are really troubled, I could ask if he would be willing to speak to you through email. I know he is extremely busy so I don’t know if he would have the time to answer your questions. There is also a wonderful church in Montreal, Quebec, Canada which is participating in the annual gay pride parade. If you live in this area, it could be a place to visit.

Once a thread is answered, I rarely check back on it, but if you want that info, message me and I will see what I can do. I can’t promise you anything only my prayers.

Hang in there my brother in christ. You will figure this all out sometime.

 

[Rau]

Dear Heathcliff80,
I am sorry that the Catholic church and these forums have let you down. Unfortunately both are governed by humans who haven’t grasped the concept: love your neighbour with all of your heart, soul and mind etc. As a result, they have a sinful nature and don’t treat you with the respect you deserve. Everyone regardless of their sexual orientation deserves to be treated with love, respect and supported through life’s trials. Unfortunately the church has failed you in that respect. I am really sorry about that.

The question whether or not you should remain with your partner is a personal choice. There will always be Church doctrine which will guide you in various directions but the decision is yours to discover do you wish to travel in those directions or not. God loves you unconditionally and it’s up to you to decide which denomination you decide to live out your Christian faith. I know some catholics who are gay and who are active christians. I have also seen the general christian atmosphere (inside all Christian denominations) in terms of homosexuality, it seems to be a place where the church in general needs to grow up and learn how to love their neighbour. It is never easy but everyone is given a cross to carry.

I’m not gay so I can’t help you on that level but I have been to many churches where for various reasons, I stayed for a while until I felt God called me to another church. To stay or leave is a big decision which I suggest that you pray about and then explore the other churches in your area and see what feels right. It will take time but eventually the right place will be found. It could be back in your present parish or a different Protestant church.

I don’t know where God is leading you but I want to encourage you to continue to ask your questions here. Some people will be jerks and others will love you as their brother in Christ.

No matter where you go, there will be doctrine that you don’t agree with. You will meet some wonderful people who you will love with all of your heart and there will be others that you would love to put them on the first flight to Mars because they are first class jerks and you don’t want to see them again.

I know someone who was Catholic and gay and he left the Catholic church a few decades ago and became an anglican minister about a year ago. If you are really troubled, I could ask if he would be willing to speak to you through email. I know he is extremely busy so I don’t know if he would have the time to answer your questions. There is also a wonderful church in Montreal, Quebec, Canada which is participating in the annual gay pride parade. If you live in this area, it could be a place to visit.

Once a thread is answered, I rarely check back on it, but if you want that info, message me and I will see what I can do. I can’t promise you anything only my prayers.

Hang in there my brother in christ. You will figure this all out sometime.

Fascinating…the advice above, from one Catholic to another, is to search around from one Church/denomination to another until you find one that “feels right”!

 

[Jon_S_1]

I have followed these forums for quite some time. The username I’m under is a new one. Having prayed and searched for guidance I’m still not sure what to do. Looking at what most responses have been on here to the issue I’m going to bring up I feel I know the answer.

I am a gay catholic and have a non-catholic partner. We are monogamous. Both of us contribute as much as we can to charitable causes and the parish, take in stray animals, help our parish out when needed (various things e.g. Transport of other members). Yet more and more I’m being told that I cannot be a Catholic unless I give up my partner.

In good conscience I can not break the heart of someone I deeply love and respect just because the CCC tells me too. When I had a breakdown due to employment difficulties the parish did not support. He did.

He has always respected my faith; if I follow what is being told I will now throw all that respect back because our life is not in line with church teaching. There is no other church than the Catholic Church, however, I am truly torn and I think it’s time for me to go. Has anyone else been in this situation?

There is no reason you can’t live celibately and chastely together. That is what you are called to do.

 

[PutresOmega]

I first signed up for these forums with this exact fear and seeking answers to the “what if” question of falling in love. My first posts a year or so ago were all about that very thing. There are no good answers to be found. Unfortunately, in the eyes of most straight people your partner is just a friend you have sex with. They don’t tend to make the connection that what you feel for him would be not dissimilar to what they might feel for an opposite sex spouse. This makes it difficult to talk across the divide to each other.

I cannot say I have been in your exact situation but the overwhelming likelihood is that I will probably eventually be in your situation, if that makes sense. As such, I can give you tips on what I have tried to adopt in my state of exile since you are considering the same.

I have stepped away from the Church but not left it. I do not attend Mass physically, nor do I partake of the Eucharist. While I am convinced the Church is wrong about homosexuality and LGBT issues, generally, many died for these Sacred Traditions and I am not so arrogant to superimpose myself onto them or partake of them while I am in violation of the rules as they currently stand. What you have admitted here makes you latae excommunicated just as I am. You may not have to cease going to Church. How do the parisioners of your Church react to you and your situation? Keeping the community might be possible. For me, it would cause discomfort and scandal so I walked away but you may not have to. I would urge you to stop taking Eucharist though.

Don’t fall into the trap of seeing the Church as your enemy. There is a lot of good in the Church and while I have come to see many of the teachings as erroneous, there are many Saints and much good to salvage from what has been poisoned by man. Read of Saints and model your life after those who inspire you. Give to charity, walk in love for others, continue praying as you always have, and follow your conscience in all things you do.

Keep your conscience informed, It is easy to confuse conscience with feelings that come and go. Part of my journey has meant me testing my conscience against those who would convince me that being gay or being in a gay relationship is a sin. Conscience is like a spiritual muscle that you need to test and keep strong. While none have convicted my conscience or convinced me I am wrong, I am only human so I am not about to say it will never ever happen. Always be open that you and I might be wrong. Never become so haughty that you forget you are human. If sex ever becomes something compulsive or negative, be ready to put it aside. As mentioned above, a chaste and loving relationship maybe an option if one involving sex isn’t. Ultimately, you will be the one to know whether or not this is the case or not.

Never lose sight of the difference between love and sex. You are in a monogamous relationship so you seem good to go, but the LGBT community for men can push a lot of stuff that sounds good but isn’t. “Monogamish”, Friends With Benefits, and all that is just using other people as masturbation aids. No future in that sort of “love”. I have a feeling you know all that but conscience can be skewed by rationalization if not exercised frequently. Refer to the above.

Your relationship to another same sex partner grants you a special opportunity to be a light to others in your life and area. Because children are not an option for you, you can help siblings raise their kids and be there for family, for example. Getting involved with Big Brothers Big Sisters could be a fantastic way of mentoring kids as well as adoption (though the latter is a huge responsibility and best prepared for via research and such). You and your love seem to have a healthy discourse and both seem like good guys so you can use your situation as an opportunity to share the love that comes from your spiritual connection to each other with others.

Good luck, wherever the path takes you. Feel free to message me if you need to talk or need me to clarify anything I have said as well.

 

[SecretCatholic]

The reason the church wants you to give up your romantic same-sex relationship is because it is in itself harmful to your and your partner’s spiritual (and physical) health. It is for the good of you and your partner. God created us to specific ends (such as procreation and physical and spiritual unity) and when we frustrate those ends by, for example, engaging in a romantic same-sex relationship, or using contraception, or being promiscuous, we are violating God’s will and living contrary to Jesus’ and church teaching.

Sometimes its hard to do the right thing. If you disagree with the church teaching on moral grounds, then you need to inform your conscience and explore and reflect upon the reasons the church says its wrong. If, after that, you still truly believe that the church is wrong, then it would indeed be against your conscience to remain a Catholic, as this is infallible/unchangeable teaching. If, on the other hand, you agree with the church on principle, but disagree because of emotional attachment, then you need to take a good look at your reasons and question your own moral sense.

That said, nobody will bar you from going to mass and participating in church activities. You shouldn’t take communion, but you are free to continue going to mass and even be a Catholic, even if you are living in sin, as so many of us are.

 

[Rau]

…Unfortunately, in the eyes of most straight people your partner is just a friend you have sex with. They don’t tend to make the connection that what you feel for him would be not dissimilar to what they might feel for an opposite sex spouse. This makes it difficult to talk across the divide to each other.

I don’t think “most” is accurate anymore…there is a much greater understanding of the nature of the attraction and the sincerity of commitment that many homosexual couples experience.

By extension, I believe many people also understand the desire to pleasure, and be pleasured by, a “beloved”. But Catholics (at least) believe that sex is about more than pleasuring between people who love each other and are committed to each other. It is misused and broken when attempted between persons of the same sex.

 

[yellowbird]

Don’t leave the Church. We are all a work in progress. Keep attending mass - keep praying. Know that God loves you more than you could ever imagine. You are His precious child, and I am in your sister in Christ and I love you, even though I don’t know you.

I will pray for you too.

 

[theCrow]

Best advice:

Follow your heart. If you truly love that person and they truly love you, stay with them, love them, be with them. Life is too short and

all you need Is love.

 

[SuperLuigi]

=theCrow;12192037]Best advice:

Not by a longshot. :dts:

Follow your heart. If you truly love that person and they truly love you, stay with them, love them, be with them.

First of all, encouraging someone to be in a homosexual relationship is a grave matter. Secondly, homosexual acts are not real love.

Life is too short and

But heaven and hell are forever.

all you need Is love.

:dts: :nope:

Also, Catholics who support homosexual relationships should refrain from Communion.

 

[Heathcliff80]

Thank you for your responses. It is something I will continue to think and pray about, however, I can see the probable outcome. Being told that your love isn’t real or true hurts. Knowing my partner, if I were to leave him it would make him resentful of the church, it’s unlikely to lead him to God unless by divine grace.

I know the rules of the church and yet I know of priests and bishops who will preach one thing and then do another (Keith O’Brien being one such example). That doesn’t make things easier.

I guess this is something I will need to talk to about in some depth with my confessor.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Thank you for your responses. It is something I will continue to think and pray about, however, I can see the probable outcome. Being told that your love isn’t real or true hurts. Knowing my partner, if I were to leave him it would make him resentful of the church, it’s unlikely to lead him to God unless by divine grace.

I know the rules of the church and yet I know of priests and bishops who will preach one thing and then do another (Keith O’Brien being one such example). That doesn’t make things easier.

I guess this is something I will need to talk to about in some depth with my confessor.

You might also want to look at the recent movie that came out about Catholicism and homosexuality: “Desire for the Everlasting Hills”. It will help you realize that, although the Church cannot endorse gay sexuality, the Church does support love and friendship.

everlastinghills.org/movie/

 

[LilyM]

Thank you for your responses. It is something I will continue to think and pray about, however, I can see the probable outcome. Being told that your love isn’t real or true hurts. Knowing my partner, if I were to leave him it would make him resentful of the church, it’s unlikely to lead him to God unless by divine grace.

I know the rules of the church and yet I know of priests and bishops who will preach one thing and then do another (Keith O’Brien being one such example). That doesn’t make things easier.

I guess this is something I will need to talk to about in some depth with my confessor.

Of course your love is real and true. But (and there is so often a but) so can be the love be that a married person feels for someone other than their spouse. It’s a question of priorities. Not the Church, but God (so we believe) teaches that both adultery and homosexual acts are wrong and that priority goes to, if married, our love for our spouse, and always our love for God and His truth.

Encouraging or enabling someone you love to possibly remain in a state of sin and jeopardise their salvation is, for a Christian, far more unloving than the temporary pain of calling them out on their behaviour and giving them at least the chance to change.