Time to leave?

[Catholic80]

I have followed these forums for quite some time. The username I’m under is a new one. Having prayed and searched for guidance I’m still not sure what to do. Looking at what most responses have been on here to the issue I’m going to bring up I feel I know the answer.

I am a gay catholic and have a non-catholic partner. We are monogamous. Both of us contribute as much as we can to charitable causes and the parish, take in stray animals, help our parish out when needed (various things e.g. Transport of other members). Yet more and more I’m being told that I cannot be a Catholic unless I give up my partner.

In good conscience I can not break the heart of someone I deeply love and respect just because the CCC tells me too. When I had a breakdown due to employment difficulties the parish did not support. He did.

He has always respected my faith; if I follow what is being told I will now throw all that respect back because our life is not in line with church teaching. There is no other church than the Catholic Church, however, I am truly torn and I think it’s time for me to go. Has anyone else been in this situation?

Have you ever looked into why the Catholic Church has her teaching on homosexuality? You say there is no other church that the CC, but why do you say that? If you believe her teachings, then why do you resist them?

From my personal experiences in relationships, and from friends’ relaying their experiences, we all had similar experiences of being in a highly attached relationship that we realized were not good for us and not what God wanted for us. One of my friends was engaged and broke off her engagement a month before the wedding because of recognizable problems even though they were deeply in love, another friend, same thing, the priest that was doing their Pre-Cana realized that they had serious problems and told them he wouldn’t marry them, two other friends of mine and I all left different religious orders because our superiors realized God was calling us to something else, even if we didn’t realize it for ourselves, another friend of mine broke off an engagement in order to join a religious order because she realized God was calling her there. How are these situations and yours’ similar? Because in every situation, we all very attached to where we were and/or the person we were with. But, in every situation, despite our strong feelings of attachment, affection, devotion, longing, God made it clear that the current arrangement was not what He wanted for us and that it was not what was best for us. God wants something better - He wants our entire happiness and true happiness.

The CC isn’t negating that you have feelings for your partner, or that you don’t care about your partner, or that you partner isn’t a good person, or that your partner didn’t contribute to the Church community. What the CC is teaching is that a homosexual lifestyle is contrary to the human person and is harmful to the person’s body and soul.

I didn’t understand why my superiors thought God was not calling me to their community. I was extremely happy there. I thought I had found my vocation, only to be “rejected.” (I put rejected in quotes because they didn’t reject me, per se, but that is what it felt like) I was so confused, heart-broken, angry, bitter, you name it, I experienced it. My friends I mention all went through similar experiences. Over time, I’ve begun to realize that God has a plan for me and it’s only for my good.

Find out why the CC has these teachings, learn about JPII’s Theology of the Body and God’s creation of the marital union. The Cross always ends with the Resurrection.

A song that helped me through this time youtube.com/watch?v=CsjZ94K7UQs
Hope it helps you!

 

[Heathcliff80]

I have made my decision. To remain in the Catholic Church would mean that I am to leave my partner. I am not prepared to do this. There is no way I can see God as merciful if it means inflicting severe emotional pain upon someone I love and saying ‘but it’s for your own good’. This to me would contradict Christ’s words I have come that you may have life in all it’s fullness (life begins in the womb so please don’t try to tell me that it actually begins when we are dead) and I desire mercy not sacrifice - for me to do as dictated by the church seems like a lot of sacrifice and not mercy.

It is easy for many to say single people must refrain from sex too, but they have the option to marry. Is it any wonder many gay men become priests (or try to)? Because let’s face it, it’s the same deal!

I love God and I love my partner. We truly believe God brought is together, we live as David and Jonathan but I am fed up of the constant misconception that we are at it like rabbits and no one wants to know the good things we do.

I’m not sure where my spiritual home will be as of now but knowing how the ‘catholic’ faith wants me to be, I don’t think it will ever want to claim me as one of its own. And that is fine by me. Maybe I will go to Hell, but I will go experiencing a little of love and the happiness it can bring to two souls.

 

[Rau]

I have made my decision. To remain in the Catholic Church would mean that I am to leave my partner. I am not prepared to do this. There is no way I can see God as merciful if it means inflicting severe emotional pain upon someone I love and saying ‘but it’s for your own good’. This to me would contradict Christ’s words I have come that you may have life in all it’s fullness (life begins in the womb so please don’t try to tell me that it actually begins when we are dead) and I desire mercy not sacrifice - for me to do as dictated by the church seems like a lot of sacrifice and not mercy.

It is easy for many to say single people must refrain from sex too, but they have the option to marry. Is it any wonder many gay men become priests (or try to)? Because let’s face it, it’s the same deal!

I love God and I love my partner. We truly believe God brought is together, we live as David and Jonathan but I am fed up of the constant misconception that we are at it like rabbits and no one wants to know the good things we do.

I’m not sure where my spiritual home will be as of now but knowing how the ‘catholic’ faith wants me to be, I don’t think it will ever want to claim me as one of its own. And that is fine by me. Maybe I will go to Hell, but I will go experiencing a little of love and the happiness it can bring to two souls.

I’m not sure why you see the choice as between staying or leaving your partner. Between loving your partner or not. This is not the choice. You are asked not to seek or pursue genital acts. Provide love, companionship, share worldly goods, care for each other in old age, sacrifice for each other. Those things are intrinsically good.

 

[Heathcliff80]

Because my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ also have the same intrinsically good qualities and yet are told that a physical expression of their love towards one another is wrong.

In all honesty I think it is time that the church ceased judging people by their bedroom activities and looked more to what goes on outside of it. I could give thousands (which I may not be able to afford but give out of love) to SPUC and CAFOD and yet be told that if I gave physical expression to love for my partner I am not to receive the sacrament and am cutting myself off from God. (Interestingly there is another thread on here in which many said a heterosexual couple could do what they like sexually as long as it ended up in penetration - sorry to be graphic but it was all there).

If my partner dies or leaves I would not seek another relationship, would I then return to the Catholic Church? Maybe. However, for now it is not for me. I would be a hypocrite to stay and I would not be showing respect to ‘the rules of the club’ and so I feel it is better to leave.

 

[Heathcliff80]

Thank you for your kind words Daddygirl. And you hit the nail on the head as it were. X

 

[Rau]

Because my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ also have the same intrinsically good qualities and yet are told that a physical expression of their love towards one another is wrong.

No, the Church teaches that physical expressions directed toward genital acts are wrong. I understand you do not want to give up that aspect of your relationship. In saying this, the Church judges the act, not the person.

 

[SecretCatholic]

If anything, threatening me with violence if I don’t capitulate to your unreasonable demands and using threats of eternal violence to attempt to coerce me into compliance does nothing but drive me to rebel against your side and see it as evil. What is the appeal of spending eternity with a being that gets creatures to “love” him by threatening them with eternal violence if they don’t abide arbitrary rules? I’d choose an eternity in hell over prostrating myself before an evil like that.

As an aside to you: your approach here makes your concept of God seem like a sort of “I am not threatening you but accidents happen” mafia hit man and is just as unappealing if not more so than the vague or more overt threats. If evangelizing in the future, I would avoid this.

Let’s say God created fire and God created you. And for some reason, you are attracted to putting your hand in the fire. Is it really a threat of violence to cordially warn you that you are going to get burned? Even after knowing this, you continue to put your hand in the fire. You don’t admit that this is wrong (humility) and you don’t seek medical attention (confession). Instead you insist that it is your RIGHT to put your hand in the fire and anyone who tells you that you are going to get burned you respond by saying “Well then, God is a merciless, abusive tyrant! He should LOVE me, not threaten me!”

The funny thing is that we are ALL attracted to putting our hands in the fire. And we all do, from time to time. Sometimes we get serious burns. But some of us actually admit we’re doing wrong, and at least seek medical attention. Homosexuality is a hard cross to carry. I would not wish it on anybody. But if you are looking for special treatment, please realize that we are all self-inflicted burn victims here and you don’t merit any more sympathy than anybody else- considering that other, non-homosexuals also carry sometimes heavier crosses.

I feel the Church is asking me and those like me to live outside of my inherent nature based off of a faulty theology which I have rebutted above in part is not particularly convincing.

Then you feel the church is in error in spite of an infallible statement. I suggest that you should no longer have much trust in the church’s divinity at all if this is what you believe. In this case, what makes the Catholic church different from any other Christian church?

You will forgive me if I don’t kowtow to the idea that because God created everything he can be an abusive, selfish, vindictive cretin and expect me not to call him on it. Ironically, bowing to that being only to save myself from hell would be selfish and that sort of selfishness just isn’t in my nature. Not because I am such a great guy but because I know the kind of pain it causes, intimately.

The way to hell is paved with good intentions. You’re intentions are certainly noble, but your concept of divine reality is way off. God isn’t there to torture us, even if life is often hard.

This to me would contradict Christ’s words I have come that you may have life in all it’s fullness (life begins in the womb so please don’t try to tell me that it actually begins when we are dead) and I desire mercy not sacrifice - for me to do as dictated by the church seems like a lot of sacrifice and not mercy.

Imagine if the apostles had said that! Did they receive mercy or sacrifice during their lives?
Heathcliff80;12197406:

In all honesty I think it is time that the church ceased judging people by their bedroom activities and looked more to what goes on outside of it.

If the Catholic church did not have a moral stance on sexuality, one of the most powerful attractions and actions for human beings, it wouldn’t have much to say about real human beings and real human activities. If the church dropped its stance on sexual morality altogether, it would, quite frankly, no longer be the Catholic church.

I hope you can figure things out in your life and I hope you come back to the church- you are always welcome. We are all sinners, after all.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Heathcliff,

You are alive during a time of war. The shells on both sides strike you, since the Christian warriors don’t understand you, and the anti-Christian warriors don’t know what is good for you. You are caught in the crossfire.

For you, it is not as simple as “submitting to Church teaching.” You see, the gunfire will continue to rain in on you, even if you submit to Church teaching. I know how hard that is. But your choice is not between loving and not loving – as Rau says, you can continue to love your partner, and no one is telling you to stop. Your choice is between being a hero or being ordinary.

I cannot blame you, and cannot judge you, if you choose to leave the Church and get out of the crossfire. But I want you to remember – not just today, but when things in your relationship get hard – that you can be a hero in this situation.

Here is a question that deserves much thought (but I don’t think you should answer it aloud): if your partner was paralyzed today, would you be willing to live the rest of your life faithful to him, without any physical expression of your love?

 

[janiruchan]

Because my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ also have the same intrinsically good qualities and yet are told that a physical expression of their love towards one another is wrong.

In all honesty I think it is time that the church ceased judging people by their bedroom activities and looked more to what goes on outside of it. I could give thousands (which I may not be able to afford but give out of love) to SPUC and CAFOD and yet be told that if I gave physical expression to love for my partner I am not to receive the sacrament and am cutting myself off from God. (Interestingly there is another thread on here in which many said a heterosexual couple could do what they like sexually as long as it ended up in penetration - sorry to be graphic but it was all there).

If my partner dies or leaves I would not seek another relationship, would I then return to the Catholic Church? Maybe. However, for now it is not for me. I would be a hypocrite to stay and I would not be showing respect to ‘the rules of the club’ and so I feel it is better to leave.

I’m sorry, but You cannot force the Truth to fit your standards. You know deep down in your heart, what is really true, good and beautiful. Please do listen to the Truth and ask for God’s grace to enlighten you. To know the Truth and not to follow it is also to abandon and reject Christ. There are many people with SSA who have humbled themselves and lived a chaste life. I pray that you may listen to Christ and may find strength through their examples…please do not waste the time given you. (where would you go without the Church? to yourself alone and with your partner?) It is not a Church without you. We are family. Do not leave us. Doing God’s will, humility and obedience are much more pleasing to God than any act of kindness, service or charity we can do for our neighbors and for the Church. Everything we give comes from God. We cannot boast of anything. The only thing we can really give God is our sin and our contrite heart.Discern what you are doing and pray hard. May Jesus be with you

 

[LilyM]

I have made my decision. To remain in the Catholic Church would mean that I am to leave my partner. I am not prepared to do this. There is no way I can see God as merciful if it means inflicting severe emotional pain upon someone I love and saying ‘but it’s for your own good’. This to me would contradict Christ’s words I have come that you may have life in all it’s fullness (life begins in the womb so please don’t try to tell me that it actually begins when we are dead) and I desire mercy not sacrifice - for me to do as dictated by the church seems like a lot of sacrifice and not mercy.

It is easy for many to say single people must refrain from sex too, but they have the option to marry. Is it any wonder many gay men become priests (or try to)? Because let’s face it, it’s the same deal!

I love God and I love my partner. We truly believe God brought is together, we live as David and Jonathan but I am fed up of the constant misconception that we are at it like rabbits and no one wants to know the good things we do.

I’m not sure where my spiritual home will be as of now but knowing how the ‘catholic’ faith wants me to be, I don’t think it will ever want to claim me as one of its own. And that is fine by me. Maybe I will go to Hell, but I will go experiencing a little of love and the happiness it can bring to two souls.

An adulterer could use all the same rationalisations as you - would you honestly believe that God brought him and his illicit lover together and was calling him to be unfaithful?

 

[kozlosap]

Because my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ also have the same intrinsically good qualities and yet are told that a physical expression of their love towards one another is wrong.

In all honesty I think it is time that the church ceased judging people by their bedroom activities and looked more to what goes on outside of it. I could give thousands (which I may not be able to afford but give out of love) to SPUC and CAFOD and yet be told that if I gave physical expression to love for my partner I am not to receive the sacrament and am cutting myself off from God. (Interestingly there is another thread on here in which many said a heterosexual couple could do what they like sexually as long as it ended up in penetration - sorry to be graphic but it was all there).

If my partner dies or leaves I would not seek another relationship, would I then return to the Catholic Church? Maybe. However, for now it is not for me. I would be a hypocrite to stay and I would not be showing respect to ‘the rules of the club’ and so I feel it is better to leave.

There are so many truths in your last two posts, I wish that all of the posters who are horribly afraid of any human who is not straight would read them and then actually think with their minds and hearts. You and your life partner are obviously thoughtful and caring people and quite respectful of the teachings of the Church which, I can only imagine, must be very difficult. As a straight person, I am often angered by the ignorance and, yes, homophobia, that is found on CAF. Your attitude is much more “Christian” than mine. I will be praying for you and your partner to find a spiritual home, even if it is not in the RCC.
Peace.

 

[Sy_Noe]

janiruchan:
I understand faithful Catholics believe the CC is where truth lies and they seem to me to love to say others have created God in their own image. Bur I’m not sure it’s fair for one human being to say to another that the other person is forcing the truth to fit their standards just because the truth they seek and find doesn’t add up to or fit to your version or to what you believe the truth to be. Daddygirl said it sounds like the OP doesn’t believe SS romance is sinful and the OP said she hit the nail on the head. The OP it then appears to me to simply see truth in a different belief than yours. In a different light if you will. Yes there is one truth and someone is right and someone is wrong. You believe you are and OP believes he is on this.

 

[Sy_Noe]

I’m sorry, but You cannot force the Truth to fit your standards. You know deep down in your heart, what is really true, good and beautiful. Please do listen to the Truth and ask for God’s grace to enlighten you. To know the Truth and not to follow it is also to abandon and reject Christ. There are many people with SSA who have humbled themselves and lived a chaste life. I pray that you may listen to Christ and may find strength through their examples…please do not waste the time given you. (where would you go without the Church? to yourself alone and with your partner?) It is not a Church without you. We are family. Do not leave us. Doing God’s will, humility and obedience are much more pleasing to God than any act of kindness, service or charity we can do for our neighbors and for the Church. Everything we give comes from God. We cannot boast of anything. The only thing we can really give God is our sin and our contrite heart.Discern what you are doing and pray hard. May Jesus be with you

I understand faithful Catholics believe the CC is where truth lies and they seem to me to love to say others have created God in their own image. Bur I’m not sure it’s fair for one human being to say to another that the other person is forcing the truth to fit their standards just because the truth they seek and find doesn’t add up to or fit to your version or to what you believe the truth to be. Daddygirl said it sounds like the OP doesn’t believe SS romance is sinful and the OP said she hit the nail on the head. The OP it then appears to me simply sees truth in a different belief than yours. In a different light if you will. Yes there is one truth and someone is right and someone is wrong. You believe you are and OP believes he is on this.

 

[sw85]

I have made my decision. To remain in the Catholic Church would mean that I am to leave my partner. I am not prepared to do this.

*“He that loveth father or mother more than me, is not worthy of me; and he that loveth son or daughter more than me, is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not up his cross, and followeth me, is not worthy of me.” *–Matt. 10:37



I’m sorry you are making this decision, apparently on the basis of nothing more serious than a few posts by anonymous strangers on an Internet forum. I hope and pray you will some day be able to take up your cross and follow Christ.

 

[Sy_Noe]

I have followed these forums for quite some time. The username I’m under is a new one. Having prayed and searched for guidance I’m still not sure what to do. Looking at what most responses have been on here to the issue I’m going to bring up I feel I know the answer.

I am a gay catholic and have a non-catholic partner. We are monogamous. Both of us contribute as much as we can to charitable causes and the parish, take in stray animals, help our parish out when needed (various things e.g. Transport of other members). Yet more and more I’m being told that I cannot be a Catholic unless I give up my partner.

In good conscience I can not break the heart of someone I deeply love and respect just because the CCC tells me too. When I had a breakdown due to employment difficulties the parish did not support. He did.

He has always respected my faith; if I follow what is being told I will now throw all that respect back because our life is not in line with church teaching. There is no other church than the Catholic Church, however, I am truly torn and I think it’s time for me to go. Has anyone else been in this situation?

Hi Heathcliff, yes. I don’t believe some teachings and as I seek truth I realized it simply comes down to I don’t or no longer have faith in the teaching authority. So I don’t practice the faith. I’m homeless but seeking spiritual shelter. I certainly could never judge what you should do but I’m late to the thread and saw you already made your decision anyway. I just wanted to answer that yes others have been in similar situations if not exactly regarding your particular one. But the teaching on gays and lesbians is one I don’t believe is the Creator’s so I understand from that perspective. Peace brother to you and to your partner. May God bless.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Also, Catholics who support homosexual relationships should refrain from Communion.

Yes and this is something that drove me away. I could discern the Body. Discern that Christ gave up His for me and for all. Yet would be unwelcomed to approach and receive Him the way I am with my warts and all when called to do so by the Father. Because I would be deemed unworthy. Even though he said He would turn no one away who came to Him.

 

[Sy_Noe]

There are so many truths in your last two posts, I wish that all of the posters who are horribly afraid of any human who is not straight would read them and then actually think with their minds and hearts. You and your life partner are obviously thoughtful and caring people and quite respectful of the teachings of the Church which, I can only imagine, must be very difficult. As a straight person, I am often angered by the ignorance and, yes, homophobia, that is found on CAF. Your attitude is much more “Christian” than mine. I will be praying for you and your partner to find a spiritual home, even if it is not in the RCC.
Peace.

This was a very kind, loving, and charitable post. Thank you for brightening my day.

 

[janiruchan]

I understand faithful Catholics believe the CC is where truth lies and they seem to me to love to say others have created God in their own image. Bur I’m not sure it’s fair for one human being to say to another that the other person is forcing the truth to fit their standards just because the truth they seek and find doesn’t add up to or fit to your version or to what you believe the truth to be. Daddygirl said it sounds like the OP doesn’t believe SS romance is sinful and the OP said she hit the nail on the head. The OP it then appears to me simply sees truth in a different belief than yours. In a different light if you will. Yes there is one truth and someone is right and someone is wrong. You believe you are and OP believes he is on this.

I deeply respect the OP’s decision…but I do not agree with posters just allowing Him to leave the Church without doing something. I deeply respect His sincerity to seek the Truth. As a person with an SSA tendency, I know how difficulty the teaching is. Pope Francis is against obsession with homosexual condemnation (with his famous: who am I to judge?) but he clarified that he is still in line with the Church’s teaching. We should pray for the OP. The scripture and the teachings of the Church is clear. I believe this is the OPs cross. May God have mercy on him.

 

[manualman]

I love God and I love my partner. We truly believe God brought is together, we live as David and Jonathan but I am fed up of the constant misconception that we are at it like rabbits and no one wants to know the good things we do.

This requires rather a bit of clarification. Genuine homophobics aside, if your relationship is entirely characterized by the forms of love the Greeks called Agape and Philia and you’re keeping temptations towards physical expressions of Eros under wraps then neither of you HAVE any conflicts with the teachings of the Catholic Church. There simply is nothing wrong with having an extremely close, personal and even exclusive relationship with a person of the opposite sex unless it crosses the line into physical sexual expression.

Good and evil aren’t like the movies. There are precious few “bad guys” in the real world in the Hollywood sense that they have no redeeming qualities. Real world evil is generally well disguised behind copious amounts of goodness in the people who commit it. Me, for example. I have LOTS of sinful tendencies and weaknesses for which I need a Savior. Admitting that they’re sinful is the first step though. The moment you start insisting that your sins are virtues, you start refusing to be saved.

So if I understand this part of your post correctly and the physical sexual aspect of your relationship is minor compared to the whole, why not eliminate it and keep the good stuff so that your agony over the conflict with the catholic faith is resolved? I’m not really following the line of thought.

 

[Rau]

This requires rather a bit of clarification. Genuine homophobics aside, if your relationship is entirely characterized by the forms of love the Greeks called Agape and Philia and you’re keeping temptations towards physical expressions of Eros under wraps then neither of you HAVE any conflicts with the teachings of the Catholic Church. There simply is nothing wrong with having an extremely close, personal and even exclusive relationship with a person of the opposite sex unless it crosses the line into physical sexual expression.

I assume you meant “person of the same sex”, as that is the context of this thread.