time

[Alberti_Devoveo]

I always thought angels exist in the 4th dimension. Thomas the angelic doctor says that they move at the speed of thought. That bypasses the 3rd dimension doesn’t it? Since if they wanted to be on the other side of the planet they could just think of being there.

Angels are spiritually substances (i.e., not comprised of matter), so they are not bound to space and time as we are. So yes, an angel can jump to the other side of the planet by just willing it, bypassing the speed-of-light maximum–angels could travel instantaneously while light would take 0.0425 seconds to travel “through” the planet (light cannot actually do this, but it would take that long for light to travel the diameter of earth).

 

[polytropos]

I disagree, the mathematical terms describe reality as we perceive it (this is precisely what physics does: describes reality using mathematics as a tool). Just as I cannot go into the past or the future, I cannot leave the surface of the 3-sphere. I can move around all I want (on earth or in the galaxy or in the universe), just like I can on the surface of the 3-sphere.

I agree with the bolded part. But the physical model’s description of reality, however accurate, does not constitute reality.

 

[Alberti_Devoveo]

I agree with the bolded part. But the physical model’s description of reality, however accurate, does not constitute reality.

Again, I disagree.

 

[polytropos]

Fair enough.

 

[billcu1]

Angels are spiritually substances (i.e., not comprised of matter), so they are not bound to space and time as we are. So yes, an angel can jump to the other side of the planet by just willing it, bypassing the speed-of-light maximum–angels could travel instantaneously while light would take 0.0425 seconds to travel “through” the planet (light cannot actually do this, but it would take that long for light to travel the diameter of earth).

Spiritualy substance? You mean their spirits are substance? Are our spirits substance?

 

[JerryZ]

Spiritualy substance? You mean their spirits are substance? Are our spirits substance?

Another axample of us trying to use our insufficient and inadecuate lexicon to describe the other world reality

 

[Darryl_B]

False: Einstein’s relativity shows us that dimensions is not “measurable by a ruler.” Relativity shows that the distance between two objects is ds[sup]2[/sup] = c[sup]2[/sup]dt[sup]2[/sup]-dx[sup]2[/sup]-dy[sup]2[/sup]-dz[sup]2[/sup], not ds[sup]2[/sup] = dx[sup]2[/sup]+dy[sup]2[/sup]+dz[sup]2[/sup] as you are supposing.

Note that this is not some relationship between two things, it is a fundamental connection.

What is the formula for the space that an object does not exist in if that object existed in its own universe and there was a big bang at t=0?

 

[Patat]

I think of time in a much less scientific way, probably in a very human way, as in what really matters to me is how it pertains to me.

Time from an earthly perspective is our gift from God. I have x amount of time between birth and death and I can use it in many ways. Including sharing some of it with others or trading it for currency (a job).

I also have x amount today in order to do what i would like to do, before I am going to get too sleepy to do anything.

I don’t know how science would look at this (or even if), but I think I see a fundamental connection between time and life.

 

[Alberti_Devoveo]

What is the formula for the space that an object does not exist in if that object existed in its own universe and there was a big bang at t=0?

I am not sure what you are trying to say here, could you rephrase this so that I might be able to answer it?

 

[Alberti_Devoveo]

Spiritualy substance? You mean their spirits are substance? Are our spirits substance?

St Thomas tells us that,

the soul is a substance, but an incomplete substance, i.e. it has a natural aptitude and exigency for existence in the body, in conjunction with which it makes up the substantial unity of human nature;

So yes, our souls are a substance. An angel has no material form but is completely substance.

 

[inocente]

Did you read the linked document? Read the linked document!!!
Darryl B;10787184:

Have you read the argument against?

The forum rules say “Don’t answer a question with a question. If you don’t know the answer, say so”.

Every GPS device in the world would be useless junk if relativity gave the wrong predictions. That’s not an argument, that’s a real-world engineering fact.

 

[inocente]

Angels are spiritually substances (i.e., not comprised of matter), so they are not bound to space and time as we are. So yes, an angel can jump to the other side of the planet by just willing it, bypassing the speed-of-light maximum–angels could travel instantaneously while light would take 0.0425 seconds to travel “through” the planet (light cannot actually do this, but it would take that long for light to travel the diameter of earth).

Hold on a minute. If angels are not comprised of matter, their eyes can’t stop photons and so they must be blind. For the same reason they must be completely invisible. If they aren’t physical then they can’t speak since they have no way to move air molecules, and can’t hear, since air molecules can have no effect on them.

Long story short they can’t interact with electromagnetism or any other forces, which means they can have no possible effect on us, nor we on them. Ergo it makes no difference whether or not they exist, the effect is always that they don’t.

 

[polytropos]

Hold on a minute. If angels are not comprised of matter, their eyes can’t stop photons and so they must be blind. For the same reason they must be completely invisible. If they aren’t physical then they can’t speak since they have no way to move air molecules, and can’t hear, since air molecules can have no effect on them.

Long story short they can’t interact with electromagnetism or any other forces, which means they can have no possible effect on us, nor we on them. Ergo it makes no difference whether or not they exist, the effect is always that they don’t.

Angels are immaterial, so they have knowledge; they just don’t collect it in the same way we do (through the senses). You seem to take issue with metaphysics, in which case it’s understandable that you cannot conceive of anything that does not rely on the physical for its knowledge. Which makes me wonder how you might conceive of God.

Angels also cannot have “false knowledge,” or they can’t “know” something incorrectly (as that is a consequence of physical limitations). Hence, Satan rejected God with full knowledge of God. He did not do it out of a mistake of knowledge, which is why his rejection is permanent: he cannot gain the correct knowledge and decide not to reject God because he already had the correct knowledge.

 

[Darryl_B]

The forum rules say “Don’t answer a question with a question. If you don’t know the answer, say so”.

Every GPS device in the world would be useless junk if relativity gave the wrong predictions. That’s not an argument, that’s a real-world engineering fact.

There are arguments against whether the time stamp in GPS would give wrong expectations.

 

[Darryl_B]

I am not sure what you are trying to say here, could you rephrase this so that I might be able to answer it?

My question is what would be the space unoccupied by an object. The reason I ask is because I expect to see similarities between the two equations. Light speed and time and a subtraction of x y z.

 

[Alberti_Devoveo]

Hold on a minute. If angels are not comprised of matter, their eyes can’t stop photons and so they must be blind. For the same reason they must be completely invisible. If they aren’t physical then they can’t speak since they have no way to move air molecules, and can’t hear, since air molecules can have no effect on them.

Long story short they can’t interact with electromagnetism or any other forces, which means they can have no possible effect on us, nor we on them. Ergo it makes no difference whether or not they exist, the effect is always that they don’t.

How is God any different? God is not comprised of matter (it would make Him contingent, if He were), so how can God see, be seen, communicate, etc?

 

[Alberti_Devoveo]

My question is what would be the space unoccupied by an object. The reason I ask is because I expect to see similarities between the two equations. Light speed and time and a subtraction of x y z.

The space unoccupied by an object? Not sure why you would want that, but it would be volume of the universe minus the volume of object.

 

[Aloysium]

I disagree, the mathematical terms describe reality as we perceive it (this is precisely what physics does: describes reality using mathematics as a tool). Just as I cannot go into the past or the future, I cannot leave the surface of the 3-sphere. I can move around all I want (on earth or in the galaxy or in the universe), just like I can on the surface of the 3-sphere.

What sphere? Space is flat: map.gsfc.nasa.gov/universe/uni_shape.html

. . . or will be for the next few years, 'til the new measurements come out showing it’s a . . . donut?

 

[catholictiger]

Has science really proved that time is the 4th dimension? What does philosophy and theology teach about time?

the theory of time I subscribe to is Augustines view that time is a thing of the mind a mental being of sorts.

I do also agree with scientific views of time.

Philosophy and Science are different realms of knowledge and they can propose apparent contradicting theories and be in the truth. I’ll explain this if you want me to later its to late.

 

[polytropos]

Philosophy and Science are different realms of knowledge and they can propose apparent contradicting theories and be in the truth. I’ll explain this if you want me to later its to late.

The way I view it is this. Philosophy is love of wisdom. Science is technically just “knowledge,” but when we say science we generally mean the modern specialized sciences like physics, biology, and chemistry.

Philosophy is the common experience basis for all knowledge. All knowledge is philosophy. It is our most direct interface with reality. We cannot know everything through philosophical inquiry, though. We have used philosophy to abstract quantity (mathematics) and develop the methodologies for the empirical sciences (like physics). Physics employs mathematics in its descriptive models, but these are models which must then be translated back into a philosophical, ontological understanding (which, of necessity, cannot contradict our philosophical basis).