Timeline - those who have already passed on

[StMikhael]

Whenever I hear various christian comments on the state of our present world and what Gods plan may be for the future, as we walk towards His second coming, the first thing that enters my mind is those who have already passed.

For example, Catholics believe that prior to the second coming, the veil of the Jews will be lifted and all Jews on earth will come to believe and accept Jesus was/is in fact the Messiah they have long awaited.

Another example might be that of a coming warning/chastisment (not Catholic dogma I only bring it up to help illustrate my higher level point) of which will enlighten the world of it’s evil ways and save many souls.

There are many examples, I just outliined two. I am not looking for answers to these specific examples, I am more reaching out to see how other deal with this issue, if it at all.

The issue is, what of those who have passed and, if only because of the accident of thier birth-time, did not get the salvific benefit of these things (such as the two examples above)? Of which, in terms of numbers (all the jews who have died in over 2000 years vs. those that inhabit the earth presently).

We talk of these things as if they are a good thing. And I suppose they are, but aren’t they too late? Don’t we feel it is effectively unfair to those who came at the more difficult times in human history vs the more graced times that may come in the future?

I present this because this way of thinking (it being a case of bad timing) is a hinderance to my faith. It causes me to question. Someday this veil will be lifted from the Jews. The day before the veil is lifted some Jews on this earth will have passed away through normal causes. Were they a day late?

 

[Aelred_Minor]

You could express the same concern about everyone who was born before the time of Christ, or who lived in parts of the world to which the Gospel had not yet been preached.

Likewise you could look at it the other way. People living in Europe in the Middle Ages experienced a culture which, for all its faults, was also profoundly Christian and in which holiness could be pursued without the seductive secularism and hedonism of the modern world.

Or what about those who knew Jesus Christ personally in His first coming? On the one hand they had the extraordinary privilege to experience and converse with the Messiah in a way that all later Christians could envy, while on the other hand coming face to face with the unveiled humanity of the incarnate God could have been a severe test of faith which the rest of us are fortunate enough to be spared from.

The fact is that every human being is born into different circumstances than any other. Some circumstances may be more conducive to salvation and others less. It is difficult to imagine how things could be arranged differently, and in any case God really does distribute His gifts freely and unevenly. Are we to be jealous of those whom God has given more, or even of those He has given less and therefore demands less of? It is our task to do what we can with the “talents” we have been given, not to begrudge others their greater or lesser number of talents. Or to paraphrase Gandalf D) everyone wishes they had been born into good times but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.

 

[chimo]

Whenever I hear various christian comments on the state of our present world and what Gods plan may be for the future, as we walk towards His second coming, the first thing that enters my mind is those who have already passed.

For example, Catholics believe that prior to the second coming, the veil of the Jews will be lifted and all Jews on earth will come to believe and accept Jesus was/is in fact the Messiah they have long awaited.

Another example might be that of a coming warning/chastisment (not Catholic dogma I only bring it up to help illustrate my higher level point) of which will enlighten the world of it’s evil ways and save many souls.

There are many examples, I just outliined two. I am not looking for answers to these specific examples, I am more reaching out to see how other deal with this issue, if it at all.

The issue is, what of those who have passed and, if only because of the accident of thier birth-time, did not get the salvific benefit of these things (such as the two examples above)? Of which, in terms of numbers (all the jews who have died in over 2000 years vs. those that inhabit the earth presently).

We talk of these things as if they are a good thing. And I suppose they are, but aren’t they too late? Don’t we feel it is effectively unfair to those who came at the more difficult times in human history vs the more graced times that may come in the future?

I present this because this way of thinking (it being a case of bad timing) is a hinderance to my faith. It causes me to question. Someday this veil will be lifted from the Jews. The day before the veil is lifted some Jews on this earth will have passed away through normal causes. Were they a day late?

Probably this second timing refers too much what is predetermined but the second coming is never a determined date. The second coming is always conditional meaning it can always be avoided. The fact is this. God will want us to continue on forever on this earth but because the wickedness of man can overturn the goodness of man to a level where the goodness of man cannot reverse it this is when Jesus has to return. It is a matter of common sense that the circumstances that are on the earth actually forces Jesus to come. It doesn’t have to be this way. The problem is not the world but it is more the Church which does not respond to effectively witness to her Lord. The Church should realize she has the power says Jesus to trample over scorpions and demons. The problem is to get the Church to utilize that power. The Church is given this responsibility to teach this to her peoples.

The problem with those who passed on during those times is what Paul wrote in his epistle when he said where sin abounds grace abounds more so that God during those critical times will be offering His Mercy at a incredible rate that will quicken people’s salvation. The problem though is the same by getting the Church to pray more so that these Graces will be better sent to peoples who are in need of it.

The problem with everyone coming to believe in the Church in a scenario that will put the whole world converted to Christ is what happens afterwards. The problem with this is how can God discipline those who are Christian in those future days when they leave the Church in great numbers. There is no one to discipline this Church of the future since everyone were converted and all that is left are Christians and those Christians who left the Church. What is God going to do to disciplined the undisciplined Christians? This is the scenario that might bring in the Second Coming. As yet we are very far from this. There is much that stills need to be done to prevent such an occurrence. The Church needs to dig deeper and have more saints who are willingly to love with the same measure of Jesus Christ. This is what God needs. More saints.

And remember God has more peoples in this world who are not yet Christian who could be Christian the next day if He chooses them to be. When the Christians of this present era chooses to be undisciplined than God has an incredible amounts of peoples who are not Christian in this world to fill in these shoes. The second coming is still far off because you can’t count out the peoples of the world today who are not Christian. These peoples are for God His investment to help us continue when the Christians of this present era do not witness Him in great numbers. We are witnessing this now in the West.