Tips on fighting an annulment

[HenryV]

I really hope I can fix things with my wife…but I have no idea what she is thinking…or making her decisions now or anything.

I know without a shadow of a doubt that our marriage is valid, holy, and that we entered into it with full understanding of what the Catholic Church and God was asking of us. I know in my heart that if an annulment is granted, that it will be wrong, and that I will fight it to the death.

Honestly, it would be easier for me to lie to myself or not tell the whole truth to a church tribunal to get out of my marriage—than to live the rest of my days honoring my wife as my wife…and giving up all possibilities for children.

I am only 32 years old—was married for almost 10 years, and we had had difficulties having children. I can’t even imagine spending the next 70 years alone, without children, with nothing to come home and work for.

Anyway…if anyone has gone through an annulment proceeding recently…and has wanted to fight it… I just was wondering if I would be able to pick your brain, get pointers, find out what you did, know what to expect, etc.

Thanks in advance.,…and please pray for my wife, me and my marriage.

Every Catholic has the right to appeal to the Holy Father ie the Roman Rota you can do that after the first court has decided. The Rota is much more reluctant to grant annullments than courts in the US.

 

[THurifer2]

I hope you are not fighting it out of spite.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Wow-there is some real anger and resentment on this board. If you will read my posts. I have said throughout that I believe in my heart that our marriage was valid. I have also said that no one can ever truly know what their partner was thinking at the time of the vows. I have also said that the tribunal and the anullment process is set up by man—decided by man. The only one joined me was God…and therefore, even though I completely respect the Church, the process…if in my heart I believe that I was given the wrong decision, then I will appeal. Knowing that only god and the couple knows what was in their hearts at the time. And from the extensive preparation and discussions I have had with my wife before and after our vows…shed some light on our/her beliefs at the time…but in the process-those are completely opposite…then yes, I will fight.

You sound like a protestant to me. You say you respect the Church, but then you say the process is by a man. The man representing God and His Church the same as the one who married you.

And yes, there is a lot of anger and resentment, because you have no idea of the pain involved in this is. You blithely think you can keep your ex from moving forward in her life, even though she is appealing to Authority. You are just trying to control what the Church and your wife does. And many women finally got away from the control freaks.

 

[Cathryn]

And yes, there is a lot of anger and resentment, because you have no idea of the pain involved in this is. You blithely think you can keep your ex from moving forward in her life, even though she is appealing to Authority. You are just trying to control what the Church and your wife does. And many women finally got away from the control freaks.

Maybe this man does know the pain involved, it’s his marriage. Give him a break. We don’t know him. We can’t determine he is a control freak by the few things he’s told us.

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

You sound like a protestant to me. You say you respect the Church, but then you say the process is by a man. The man representing God and His Church the same as the one who married you.

And yes, there is a lot of anger and resentment, because you have no idea of the pain involved in this is. You blithely think you can keep your ex from moving forward in her life, even though she is appealing to Authority. You are just trying to control what the Church and your wife does. And many women finally got away from the control freaks.

This post was completely inappropriate. Nothing he has said has given me the impression that he is a “control freak”. Based on his posts, themait simply believes that his marriage is and was valid and plans on appealing an annulment if one is granted. Again, your post was completely inappropriate.

You owe themait an apology.

 

[IrishAm]

This post was completely inappropriate. Nothing he has said has given me the impression that he is a “control freak”. Based on his posts, themait simply believes that his marriage is and was valid and plans on appealing an annulment if one is granted. Again, your post was completely inappropriate.

You owe themait an apology.

I think sometimes people speak from their own pain. qui est ce, I understand what you were saying and believe it reflects your experience. But I don’t think we have any evidence that is the situation here. Certainly, it may be; but it may not be.

 

[qui_est_ce]

This post was completely inappropriate. Nothing he has said has given me the impression that he is a “control freak”. Based on his posts, themait simply believes that his marriage is and was valid and plans on appealing an annulment if one is granted. Again, your post was completely inappropriate.

You owe themait an apology.

Actually, he said a lot more than that:

Originally Posted by themait
I have said throughout that I believe in my heart that our marriage was valid. I have also said that no one can ever truly know what their partner was thinking at the time of the vows. **I have also said that the tribunal and the anullment process is set up by man—decided by man. The only one joined me was God…and therefore, even though I completely respect the Church, the process…if in my heart I believe that **I was given the wrong decision, then I will appeal. Knowing that only god and the couple knows what was in their hearts at the time. And from the extensive preparation and discussions I have had with my wife before and after our vows…shed some light on our/her beliefs at the time…but in the process-those are completely opposite…then yes, I will fight.

My post is completely appropriate, what he is saying is heretical. That is what protestants always accuse Catholics of, following the rules of man, while they follow the rules of God. Protestants the EF always “know in their hearts” how to interpret the Bible. Because God told them. Catholics rely on the Mageterium guided by the Holy Spirit. We a not a CHURCH of manmade laws.

Just the title of the thread, Tips on fighting Annulment, like giving tips on how to get a spot out of the carpet. It belittles the whole process.

 

[1ke]

I know without a shadow of a doubt that our marriage is valid, holy, and that we entered into it with full understanding of what the Catholic Church and God was asking of us. I know in my heart that if an annulment is granted, that it will be wrong, and that I will fight it to the death.

No, you don’t know this. You know only **your **intent and your consent. You don’t know what your wife may have kept from you.

Perhaps your marriage is valid, but perhaps not. The tribunal process will determine if your wife does have any valid grounds.

Anyway…if anyone has gone through an annulment proceeding recently…and has wanted to fight it… I just was wondering if I would be able to pick your brain, get pointers, find out what you did, know what to expect, etc.

Just tell the truth. If you think your marriage was valid, state that and state why.

Thanks in advance.,…and please pray for my wife, me and my marriage.

I hope you are able to reconcile.

 

[1ke]

Yeah-- I know you have the appeal and all that. That is about as far as my knowledge has gotten though—other than knowing of the basic reasons that annulments are granted.?

I highly recommend the book Annulment: The Wedding That Was by Michael Smith Foster.

Anyone know where to find/or has relatively recent data regarding approval rates in the US for annulments and the total percentage of approvals that are upheld through the Vatican stage. I thought a very high percentage of annulments were overturned at that level.

That information is not public.

Also, some time ago, when doing some internet research, I read somewhere that someone (I thought it was a recent pope-or cardinal) said that even your marriage is annuled…if you know in your heart that the annulment shouldn’t have been granted…that the tribunal is merely made up of men—and men make mistakes…and therefore the only place that the validity of marriage is known is between a couple and God. Any clues?

No. You would have to find a source, I am highly skeptical that the Pope would say such a thing.

 

[Joannm]

In order to file for an annulment the couple have to be legally divorced first. Fighting the annulment will not solve the fact that he is already legally civilly divorced.

 

[qui_est_ce]

No. You would have to find a source, I am highly skeptical that the Pope would say such a thing.

Thank you 1ke for your informed responses.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I really hope I can fix things with my wife…but I have no idea what she is thinking…or making her decisions now or anything.

Thanks in advance.,…and please pray for my wife, me and my marriage.

Are you guys even divorced yet? You cannot even pursue Annulment until this legality has been accomplished.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

You sound desperate and afraid of what is going to happen.

As you asked for advice on the decree of nullity, I can only state that you’ve gotten a lot of good advice here, esp. from puzzleannie, Deacon Ed and qui est ce. They are right, the nullity process is not a war, not a fight. It’s nothing like a civil divorce action. I don’t know if you’re in a state of mind to really listen to what they have to say.

I am going to tell you something I was told during the heartbreak of divorce and tribunal proceedings. Somebody, a Baptist minister actually, said it to me. At the time, I thought, “Oh yeh, easy for you to say, buster! You’re not going through this! And you’re not even Catholic!” I swallowed, said, “Gee thanks” and walked away. At the time, it didn’t seem an accurate piece of Scripture for my situation.

Twenty-some-odd years later, I can verify that the man knew his business. It showed up in yesterday’s readings at daily Mass.

It was Romans 8:28:
*28 *We know that all things work for good for those who love God, who are called according to his purpose.
So, I urge you to love God as best as you can at this time, by going to daily Mass when you can; by spending time before the Blessed Sacrament; and by being good to yourself in small ways, as you are God’s creation. Please let God do His job in this, through His Church. He knows what is best for you, and He can take this situation and bring something really wonderful out of all this pain for you.

 

[pyropam]

Has your wife actually filed for an annulment? Or has she filed for a divorce?

If she hasn’t filed for an annulment, then get your mind off of that. To dwell on such things can be very dangerous to your mental health and your relationship with your wife.

I’m sorry if I seem a little out of line, but I think maybe you should control your thoughts using prayer as much as you can. Pray for others and get your mind off of your troubles. Sign up as a “Prayer Warrior” and post prayers for all the people asking us to pray for them. This can really be a spirit lifter.

Hold your tongue when you speak to her ( I don’t know why I said that to you, like God wants me to). Don’t let your temper continue to get the best of you. God has a plan, let him take care of it.

 

[pnewton]

May God bless you in this time of trial. Just present the truth as best you recall and remember that validity is presumed. It is unfortunate in this country that so many throw aside their wedding vows. Most states have opted for no fault divorces that have eroded the permanence of marriage and a generation of children that do not have a stable family life.

Prepare yourself in prayer for the downside of our free will. Your wife can not be forced to stay with you, even if the annulment is denied. She can always choose a life of mortal sin and remarry outside the church. You will have no control over this. The only thing you can control is your response to your suffering. If I may recommend a book to gain insight into these times, in light of what you said about your future outlook on life:

Viktor Frankl’s Man’s Search for Meaning

It is a short book. Easy to read but very intense.

 

[mborsey]

I have gone through the annulment process. It is nothing like a fight in a civil divorce. There is no fighting. Each side writes their history of the courtship and marriage and provides witnesses who knew you before the marriage took place. The witnesses also send in answers to a lengthy questionaire. Based on their findings the tribunal will determine whether your case fits one of the reasons for granting an annulment.

As others have said you must be legally divorced before either spouse can apply so there really is no point trying to fight it because your marriage will already be over. The annulment gives you the right to remarry in the Catholic Church and that’s a good thing if you’re Catholic. Do you really want to hurt the other person that much and prevent them from remarrying?

You asked about the high rate of success in gaining an annulment. In my diocese it works like this. You apply for an annulment and tell your story. The tribunal looks at your case and predetermines if they think it will succeed. They may recommend that you not continue the process because it will probably fail. Many people stop right here and don’t complete the formal application so they don’t get counted as rejections. If the tribunal says it’s ok to continue then it’s 98% certain you will be approved. And that’s why the success rate is so high. The tribunal does this because once you get a rejection you can never reapply so they give the parties an opportunity to gather more information that may have been forgotten.

If you haven’t already divorced there’s a program in the Church called Retrovaille (sp?) for troubled marriages that you may wish to try.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

First, the annulment is not a contentious process (unlike a divorce which is). Second, there really is not way to “fight” an annulment. If one is granted and you feel that it should not have been then you can appeal the decision to the Roman Rota.

The annulment process is designed to determine if a valid marriage was entered into at the time the vows were exchanged. To that end the tribunal will gather data about the courtship, how duties in the marriage were shared, communication, and so on. This helps to establish an understanding of the marriage.

Deacon Ed

I realize you’ve received canonical training, but in my canon law class the professor mentioned that one of the big areas of interest in canon law these days is surrounding the anullment process because it was designed as a contentious trial, i.e. it was assumed that only one of the parties desired a declaration of nullity. The reality on the ground nowadays is that, though not here, more often than not both parties want the marriage declared null. If I’m remembering my professor correctly, though, wouldn’t it be correct to call anullment a contentious process, especially here, even though all you can really do to “fight” it is tell the truth about your situation?

My post is completely appropriate, what he is saying is heretical.
…
Just the title of the thread, Tips on fighting Annulment, like giving tips on how to get a spot out of the carpet. It belittles the whole process.

He said he would appeal to Rome, and you call that heretical? Get off your high horse. You know what would be heretical? Claiming a tribunal could not err. It’s not like he is required to go out and start dating if his marriage is declared null. He’s free to follow his conscience and remain single, though he would not be free to condemn his ex for dating or remarrying. As for belittling the process, I don’t see how someone who wholeheartedly believes himself to be validly married choosing to defend the bond (which we must presume was valid anyway) constitutes “belittling” the process.

 

[qui_est_ce]

He said he would appeal to Rome, and you call that heretical? Get off your high horse. You know what would be heretical? Claiming a tribunal could not err. As for belittling the process, I don’t see how someone who wholeheartedly believes himself to be validly married choosing to defend the bond (which we must presume was valid anyway) constitutes “belittling” the process.

You are dishonest. You cut and paste and twist. My post was in response to themait’s saying the Annulments by the Church are laws of men. That’s heresy.

I have also said that the tribunal and the anullment process is set up by man—decided by man. The only one joined me was God…and therefore, even though I completely respect the Church, the process…if in my heart I believe that I was given the wrong decision, then I will appeal. Knowing that only god and the couple knows what was in their hearts at the time. And from the extensive preparation and discussions I have had with my wife before and after our vows…shed some light on our/her beliefs at the time…but in the process-those are completely opposite…then yes, I will fight.

You sound like a protestant to me. You say you respect the Church, but then you say the process is by a man. The man representing God and His Church the same as the one who married you.

As for the belittling, I referred to the name of the thread, not M’s desire to appeal.

 

[HenryV]

Actually, he said a lot more than that:

My post is completely appropriate, what he is saying is heretical. That is what protestants always accuse Catholics of, following the rules of man, while they follow the rules of God. Protestants the EF always “know in their hearts” how to interpret the Bible. Because God told them. Catholics rely on the Mageterium guided by the Holy Spirit. We a not a CHURCH of manmade laws.

Just the title of the thread, Tips on fighting Annulment, like giving tips on how to get a spot out of the carpet. It belittles the whole process.

Come on, ecclesiastical courts are made up of men and one even sentenced St Joan of Arc to be burned a heretic. They are not at all infallible. Only the Magisterium is infallible in matters of faith and morals.
There is no heresy at all in trying to defend your cause at an ecclesiastical court.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Come on, ecclesiastical courts are made up of men and one even sentenced St Joan of Arc to be burned a heretic. They are not at all infallible. Only the Magisterium is infallible in matters of faith and morals.
There is no heresy at all in trying to defend your cause at an ecclesiastical court.

While I will be the first to defend themait’s right to defend himself in any court, he needs to take a step back and deal with his grief, poor man. He is being very male, a noble reaction, but despite the anger and the prepartion to almost “call to arms”, he is in grief. I think he needs to spend a little time taking care of himself. I bet that hasn’t happened in a while. Some good sleep (think of Abe and the Beaver), a good talk with a priest he trusts (maybe two good talks or three), care of his soul, and some little “treats” such a steak dinner or tickets to sporting event of his choice with a buddy. It won’t solve the issue but it might give him time to think things out a bit, explore the nullity process, heal a little. He’s apparently not even divorced, yet.

I should hope that ecclesiatic courts, while having made mistakes in the past, will not burn themait or his putative wife at the stake to solve the solution of a decree of nullity . I should hope that marriage tribunals have improved their methods over the centuries.