Tips on fighting an annulment

[otjm]

What has not been mentioned on this thread is Retrouville, an offshoot of Marriage Encounter. While Marriage Encounter was established to make strong marriages stronger, Retrouville was established to help marriages that are troubled. Even divorced couples can attend Retrouville. Marriages that have desolved because of acoholism and drug abuse have been saved through the process of learning new communication techniques.

This is good advice; however, the OP noted that he does not even know what his wife is thinking; the implication is that there is no communication. My guess is that he is ghoing to have to show some interest in finding out what part he has played in this before she is going to make any effort to reverse course. Most divorces don’t occur in a vacuum, and most do not occur in a short period of time; that is, most are long coming. And the number one cause of divorce is failure to communicate.

We know nothing about what is motivating her. It is possible that simply asking her to try Retrouville will get that started; but I would not want to make any bets.

 

[YADA]

OP,

Please do not take thisin an uncharitable way…you state that you had 1.5 years of pre-cana and marriage instruction and yet at the same time you and your fiance planned to use ABC, and did in fact use ABC after the marriage [perhaps even before - but please do not answer that question!].

Just understand that sexual activity and understanding before and during the marriage are questions that will w asked and answered. You must be honest. That your marriage preparatione left both of yuo with such minimal understanding of the Church’s teachings n the Sanctitiy of Marriage and the grave sim of ABC is telling.

Also, the Pre-cana and Natural Family Planning instruction you received obviously did not have an impact on your actions. Even now your posts about the use of ABC do not reflect an understanding of the serious affects upon your marriage and upon you and your wife…

This one issue may the tip of the iceburg for other issues of understanding surrounding the Sacrament of Marriage…

The questionaire will cover your home life [abuse, substance additctions in the home, dating in general, dating your spouse, the engagement, the wedding, honeymoon, your married life. They will ask you what ou know/knew about your spouses’ life in all of these areas. They will ask about your approach to sexuality in the marriage [openness to life, stc], they will inquire as to how you related regarding finances, common goals children discipline and a host of various factors. They will ask similar questions of two witnesses [minimum] for each of you…the questions are exhaustive and the tribunal will leave no stone unturned …

There will be advocates assigned to each of you and one assigned to “defend the bond” …

To have willfully set out to defy church teaching in one area and at the very time you were professing your vows does not bode well; especially if there are other areas where you followed you own council…and getting married only to live apart while you attended law school [for me] only begs more questions…why get married when you did [was there a reason and how does that reason fit in with the Sacramentality of Marriage - was there a ‘reason’ that renders the ‘free consent’ not ‘free’? Etc…these are questions the tribunal may very well have and thay go to the heart of the Sacramentality…

***I offer you my prayers. *

The advice regarding Retrovaille [if the marriage has not ended civilally] is I believe the best advice you have receined on this thread…I encourage you to seek them out [along with your spouse]

You have my empathy…May God Bless you in the future…

 

[Annc]

I have read to post #45 and will read no further before I chime in.

This is a very painful situation that only God can heal. The only way to deal with the annulment or civil divorce is to save your marriage. Forget “winning” and “fighting” and think “saving and healing.” Pray like you have never prayed before, humble yourself before God and man, and be willing to grow and change. If your wife wants out, then something is out of balance in your marriage. Both of you will need to grow and change and you can’t force her to do so but you can ask God to lead you both, but only if you are willing as well. Get a good counselor to help you assess your marriage and yourself. Ask your wife to participate. Surround yourself with positive people and activities. Get rid of those that distract you from God’s purpose and give the Evil One a foothold in your life. Pray that God will lift your anger and help you to forgive her and yourself. Be loving in all that do and say to her. Become the person God meant you to be. That is the good that will come of this very, very painful situation.

I am very sorry for you trouble. You are grieving for what was lost (security, innocence…) and perhaps for the relationship itself. Don’t lose hope. It may be able to be saved. Mine was through the grace of God. We are happier than we ever were and it was earned through much pain and many tears.

Again, save your marriage first.

Peace and God bless you.

 

[puzzleannie]

SInce this discussio is on an anulment. If anyone could help me…what would be some reasnons for a person to ask for annulment.

I can only really think of one…otherwise why would someone seek an
annulment?

the only reason for seeking an annulment is that someone whose marriage has irredeemable broken down suspects that due to conditions that pertained at the time of the marriage, that no valid marriage occured, and he wants a competent judgement of the canon law tribunal (which is his right) on that matter. the reasons for settling the issue would be not only that he would be free to marry someone else, but also seeking understanding of what was wrong with the marriage at its root or from its inception, a process that aids healing, and would help hopefully to prevent the same problem from affecting any future marriage.

 

[otjm]

the only reason for seeking an annulment is that someone whose marriage has irredeemable broken down suspects that due to conditions that pertained at the time of the marriage, that no valid marriage occured, and he wants a competent judgement of the canon law tribunal (which is his right) on that matter. the reasons for settling the issue would be not only that he would be free to marry someone else, but also seeking understanding of what was wrong with the marriage at its root or from its inception, a process that aids healing, and would help hopefully to prevent the same problem from affecting any future marriage.

I don’t disagree with your answer, but my guess is that Thurifer2 was asking what the grounds were, as in what issues impact consent (force, gross immaturity, etc.).

 

[THurifer2]

I don’t disagree with your answer, but my guess is that Thurifer2 was asking what the grounds were, as in what issues impact consent (force, gross immaturity, etc.).

Actually I was not asking that…I was more or less making a Rhetorical question…to me if I got a letter from a church and found out that my wife was seeking an annulment…I would conclude (may not be right) that she wanted to marry someone.

 

[otjm]

Actually I was not asking that…I was more or less making a Rhetorical question…to me if I got a letter from a church and found out that my wife was seeking an annulment…I would conclude (may not be right) that she wanted to marry someone.

Ok, I guessed wrong.

I don’t know if someone seeking to make professed vows would have to proceed through an annulmnet procceding, but I would imagine they would have to - that is, if she wanted to become a nun; and if a male who was divorced wanted to become a deacon or a priest, he would have to apply.

However, the normal issue is that the one applying either seeks to marry someone else, or to become free to do so should the occasion arise…

 

[THurifer2]

Ok, I guessed wrong.

I don’t know if someone seeking to make professed vows would have to proceed through an annulmnet procceding, but I would imagine they would have to - that is, if she wanted to become a nun; and if a male who was divorced wanted to become a deacon or a priest, he would have to apply.

However, the normal issue is that the one applying either seeks to marry someone else, or to become free to do so should the occasion arise…

I am not sure either. I was just making a point to the OP that the writing on the wall seems to indicate that his wife is seeking an annulment. If this is true the obivious conclusion would be that the wife is petitioning for the reason of re-marriage…and in a feeble attempt not to pass judgement it seems as though the OP has some issues with facing the reality of diviorce. I feel bad for the OP and can only hope he accepts Gods will…whatever that may be

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

O
I don’t know if someone seeking to make professed vows would have to proceed through an annulmnet procceding, but I would imagine they would have to - that is, if she wanted to become a nun; and if a male who was divorced wanted to become a deacon or a priest, he would have to apply.

A male would also have to do so if he wanted to be a brother.

Not all male religious are priests or deacons. There are actually orders, like the Christian Brothers to name one, that are non-clergy, that is none of their members are clergy.

 

[Jerry-Jet]

Is there anywhere you can go to find out which tribunals in the USA give the highest percentage of anullments a favorable result?

In other words would a person have a better chance at some tribunals than at others–should one shop around for the diocese where one would have the best chance of having an annulment granted?

 

[cameron_lansing]

In other words would a person have a better chance at some tribunals than at others–should one shop around for the diocese where one would have the best chance of having an annulment granted?

The selection of forum is limited by canon 1673 which you can look up in the code of canon law at the Vatican website.

 

[otjm]

A male would also have to do so if he wanted to be a brother.

Not all male religious are priests or deacons. There are actually orders, like the Christian Brothers to name one, that are non-clergy, that is none of their members are clergy.

Yep. Nothing like not thinking beyond the end of my nose! Thanks!

 

[otjm]

Is there anywhere you can go to find out which tribunals in the USA give the highest percentage of anullments a favorable result?

In other words would a person have a better chance at some tribunals than at others–should one shop around for the diocese where one would have the best chance of having an annulment granted?

I have no doubt the information is out there, but whether it is available or not to anyone and everyone is another issue. Further, it will most likely be several years old, and in that time, members of a tribunal may have shifted. JP 2 had soem things to say about how frequently they were granted, and I am unconvinced that he was entirely correct; and I have no way of knowing if there has been a shift in the decision making since then.

Add to all of that the issue that one would have to move to the diocese in order to get a hearing, and it is no longer much of an issue. pretty much most people are not going to move; additionally, moving out of the diocese one lives in may make it more difficult to put one’s case together as one is then forced to do everything long distance.

 

[quiet52]

themait,

I am sorry some people posting on this thread have so freely judged you. Please forgive them. Try not to let their words pierce your heart – let the words bounce off you. They do not realize that ONE partner in a marriage CAN be at fault for the marriage breaking up. It is not necessarily the “fault” of both partners. I was not a perfect marriage partner (who is?), but I did work at my marriage. My ex worked at tearing it down – and it used to hurt terribly when people would point fingers of blame at me. ONE spouse might have an addiction problem, a personality disorder, an inclination to cheat, lie, or be violent, — etc. etc. The other spouse does not “cause” these things.

That being said, that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t prayerfully work at self-reflection and continued conversion of heart and mind, striving for holiness, whether your marriage continues or not.

If your wife has already decided to proceed with the divorce, you might be able to “fight” the divorce, depending on which state you reside in. As some posters have tried to explain, though, once you’re divorced, and once your wife has submitted a petition for nullity, the issue boils down to presenting the facts as you perceive them. Take one step at a time. You might learn things about your state of mind or your wife’s (at the time of your marriage) during the tribunal process – so it’s premature at this time to make any decisions about appeals.

In the meantime, I know that thinking about the possibility of your marriage ending must be a huge source of grief for you. We can’t always control the outcome of our lives – but we can choose how we deal with what comes. Keep praying no matter what, and keep asking God to make His graces evident to you.

I will pray for you.

 

[Restore]

Dear themaite,

  Like you, I believe in the sanctity of marriage.  When people around you say that since your spouse wants out of the marriage, it doesn't mean that it is truly the end.  Even when your wife has filed for divorce and it has gone through, it doesn't mean that your marriage will not be restored.  When good meaning people say that you have to "move on", "get married again" etc., it doesn't mean that you'll never get your dear wife back.  
  Ask God what His will is for you and your marriage.   Ask Him how to fight for your marriage.  Get to know what Jesus says about marriage particularly in Matthew 19:1-9. Align your will alongside of God's.  Keep praying, keep seeking Him.  He'll answer. You may not get the answer right away but you'll start noticing the changes that will occur within you.  Then He will start working on your wife.  Ask God to turn your wife's heart to Him first and then back to you.  This will take a bit of time.  Whatever time God requires, it is always perfect.  Trust in that. As you start reading the Bible, Jesus says many times: "Be not afraid", "Have faith" and "Pray".  Finally, remember that "nothing is impossible with God", and this is also what Jesus says.
  If all what I am writing to you seems too easy, there's a website you can go to help you through this most difficult time  without receiving advice. It's not a chat room, it's a place to receive encouragement, hope and most of all the opportunity to know and serve our dear Lord in the place where you are right now,  **[www.rejoiceministries.org](www.rejoiceministries.org)**.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Rejoice Ministries is **not **a Catholic ministry, and has no connection with the decree of nullity process.
rejoiceministries.org/salvation.html
It leads to a subsite that promotes sola scriptura and “Trusting Jesus as Savior” without the Church for salvation.

 

[WICatholic]

Rejoice Ministries is **not **a Catholic ministry, and has no connection with the decree of nullity process.
rejoiceministries.org/salvation.html

You are correct. It isn’t.

Do you know of a HEALING Catholic site that will stand with the one who wants to save the Marriage? If so, please tell us, and perhaps there will never need to be a petition to start the Decreee of Nullity Process.

I know some beautiful restored Marriages who were helped by non-Catholic Standers over the years. And guess what? Those couples I know are, and were, Catholic.

Sadly, the one who wanted to save the marriages in each of them found no help in their Dioceses. In fact, in a couple of them, it was the parish priest who had encouraged the one who wanted to leave the marriage to do so, and even helped to file the papers for the process to begin…one of them was in my former parish.

God bless!

 

[DebChris]

This is good advice; however, the OP noted that he does not even know what his wife is thinking; the implication is that there is no communication. My guess is that he is ghoing to have to show some interest in finding out what part he has played in this before she is going to make any effort to reverse course. Most divorces don’t occur in a vacuum, and most do not occur in a short period of time; that is, most are long coming. And the number one cause of divorce is failure to communicate.

We know nothing about what is motivating her. It is possible that simply asking her to try Retrouville will get that started; but I would not want to make any bets.

I always come back to Jesus telling his disciples, “If when you bring your gift to the altar, you remember that your brother (sister/spouse/friend) has a grievance against you, go, be reconciled, and then offer your gift.”
The aggrieved spouse does not always know why the other spouse no longer wants to work on the relationship. What is difficult about Christ’s teaching is not my being angry at my spouse, or whoever. It is that I am called to take the first step toward opening the door of reconciliation, of removing the bricks from the wall that I may have built between us.
Sending an invitation does not imply acceptance by the other person. As stated in the quoted post, it is a step that can be taken. There is a balance that must be maintained. It must be a “please come” and not an “I insist.” It involves a letting go of control because the decision to accept or not accept lies with the recepient of the invitation. It may even mean giving the invitee first choice when it comes to time and place.

 

[DebChris]

I have read to post #45 and will read no further before I chime in.

This is a very painful situation that only God can heal. The only way to deal with the annulment or civil divorce is to save your marriage. Forget “winning” and “fighting” and think “saving and healing.” Pray like you have never prayed before, humble yourself before God and man, and be willing to grow and change. If your wife wants out, then something is out of balance in your marriage. Both of you will need to grow and change and you can’t force her to do so but you can ask God to lead you both, but only if you are willing as well. Get a good counselor to help you assess your marriage and yourself. Ask your wife to participate. Surround yourself with positive people and activities. Get rid of those that distract you from God’s purpose and give the Evil One a foothold in your life. Pray that God will lift your anger and help you to forgive her and yourself. Be loving in all that do and say to her. Become the person God meant you to be. That is the good that will come of this very, very painful situation.

I am very sorry for you trouble. You are grieving for what was lost (security, innocence…) and perhaps for the relationship itself. Don’t lose hope. It may be able to be saved. Mine was through the grace of God. We are happier than we ever were and it was earned through much pain and many tears.

Again, save your marriage first.

Peace and God bless you.

I posted before reading your comment. quest52 (#93) and Restore(#94) post in the same vein. There are several places within the Old Testament where the statement is made that disorder in marriage is a sign of disorder in our relationship to God. We know that Jesus healed individuals physically and spiritually. Since all things are possible through Christ Jesus, a marriage can be healed as well. In opening our hearts to reconciliation, it must be remembered that God will not go against the will of any man or woman. Some of us are simply much more stubborn than others. Still He invites each of us to a personal relationship with Him.
In Corinthians, Paul writes that a man must not divorce his wife nor a wife separate from her husband. In admonishing the wife, he recognizes extentuating circumstances which may exist (addictions, violence, etc.) when he writes, “If you must separate, seek to be reconciled. How do you know woman that you will not save your spouse? How do you know husband that you will not save your husband?”
It is may be true that Rejoice ministries is a non-Catholic website. Nevertheless, our Protestant brothers and sisters are still our brothers and sisters in Christ. There is no reason to keep them from praying for us or for us not to pray for them. I have received much comfort from my non-Catholic friends, even when they do not have a Catholic understanding of Sacraments.

 

[Restore]

You are correct. It isn’t.

Do you know of a HEALING Catholic site that will stand with the one who wants to save the Marriage? If so, please tell us, and perhaps there will never need to be a petition to start the Decreee of Nullity Process.

I know some beautiful restored Marriages who were helped by non-Catholic Standers over the years. And guess what? Those couples I know are, and were, Catholic.

Sadly, the one who wanted to save the marriages in each of them found no help in their Dioceses. In fact, in a couple of them, it was the parish priest who had encouraged the one who wanted to leave the marriage to do so, and even helped to file the papers for the process to begin…one of them was in my former parish.

God bless!