Tips on promoting the Traditional Latin Mass?

[onmyknees]

Teach classes on Latin centered on the Liturgy of the Mass.

The only Latin / Greek we have at our Mass is the Kyria Eliason. The words are flashed upon the screen without the English translation below (which is needed so people “feel” the connection between our modern era and the 2,000 year old Early Church. )

I bet most Catholics don’t know that Halleluyah is Hebrew:

**** The words are flashed upon the screen****

I think adding more Latin/Greek to the mass has been a good way to help people hear the beauty of it. At our mass we sing the Sanctus, the Kyrie, and the Agnus Dei. Everyone seems to like this!

 

[otjm]

So why is Evangelical Protestantism becoming so popular in Latin America?. Curious!.

Ralph Martin wrote about it; I think the book was called “The Church at the End of an Age” and it was an overview of the Church world wide.

His comment about the Protestant inroads in Central and South America was somewhat succinct: The Church opted for the poor (Liberation Theology) and the poor opted for Christ (the Protestant Churches, which were particularly “biblically” oriented - that is, they preached Christ, and Him crucified).

In other words, the Church got caught up in a theology that was to oriented to Social Science and Political Theory (among other issues), while the Protestant churches talked about sin, about salvation, and about Christ and didn’t get into political power issues, social and economic disparities, etc.

 

[InquisitorMax]

I read something along those lines, too. One quote from a ‘peasant’ went something like this:

“If we want to organise a union we go to the priest. If we want religion, we go to the pastor”.

Brother JrEd mentioned a point commonly made about Protestant sects: the turnover rate. I truly wonder now if the smart move for a priest is to concentrate on being pleasing to God, first, and the rest will take care of itself.

There seems to be a lot of effort being put into ‘outreach’ but they don’t seem to take. Like, give a program a bland name like ‘Spirit 2000’, have some kind of modified Mass, have discussion meetings and Zzzzz.

Versus: heal a few people, cast out a few devils, the word goes round and yer doorbell won’t stop ringing with converts

 

[thirddec]

While I see nothing intrinsically wrong with people wanting to go to Latin Mass ; but I’m fairly sure the first christians were not speaking Latin at their services. Aslo the first manifestation of the Holy Spirit after Christ assended into heaven was to have the word of God spoken and everyone heard it in their own Tongue. I for one want to be able to understand every word of what is being said and would like those less able to memorise or learn latin to do so as well. I believe that God does not want to be a MYSTERY to us and he sent his SON among us so he would be known to us through CHRIST who also did not speak latin. Our religion should be as natural to us as breathing and anything that places a barrier between us and God should be avoided.

I’m glad that you folks can be spiritually lifted by Mass but don’t believe that the unlearned masses don’t get the same lift in regular services. I for one dont need the creation of some other wordly environment in order to feel Christ in action in the Mass.

I was lazy, I just posted this in another thread but I think it applies here to. And as far as there being a Sacred language if there was one surley it would be what Christ spoke if one existed as of course every word of his must be sacred as he was and is GOD. The only other folks im aware of that may have sacred languages would be magicians abbracadabra.

Are we going to go back and put the Bible back into Latin too so only the Scholarly can read it and the ordinary salt of the earth will need to have someone explain it for them when they try to read it at home.

Sorry to throw a spanner in the works but maybe a more usefull use of your time would be promoting the MASS full stop.

 

[onmyknees]

While I see nothing intrinsically wrong with people wanting to go to Latin Mass ; but I’m fairly sure the first christians were not speaking Latin at their services. Aslo the first manifestation of the Holy Spirit after Christ assended into heaven was to have the word of God spoken and everyone heard it in their own Tongue. I for one want to be able to understand every word of what is being said and would like those less able to memorise or learn latin to do so as well. I believe that God does not want to be a MYSTERY to us and he sent his SON among us so he would be known to us through CHRIST who also did not speak latin. Our religion should be as natural to us as breathing and anything that places a barrier between us and God should be avoided.

I’m glad that you folks can be spiritually lifted by Mass but don’t believe that the unlearned masses don’t get the same lift in regular services. I for one dont need the creation of some other wordly environment in order to feel Christ in action in the Mass.

I was lazy, I just posted this in another thread but I think it applies here to. And as far as there being a Sacred language if there was one surley it would be what Christ spoke if one existed as of course every word of his must be sacred as he was and is GOD. The only other folks im aware of that may have sacred languages would be magicians abbracadabra.

Are we going to go back and put the Bible back into Latin too so only the Scholarly can read it and the ordinary salt of the earth will need to have someone explain it for them when they try to read it at home.

Sorry to throw a spanner in the works but maybe a more usefull use of your time would be promoting the MASS full stop.

Catholics can go anywhere in the world and hear the same mass in Latin. It is comforting. I think that the sacred music ( Gregorian chanting) brings our hearts and minds to enter into the sacrifice of Jesus on Calvary.

I don’t always go to the Latin mass because my parish has the Novus Ordo. I know a lot of people who don’t even realize where and what we we are really participating in at this mass either. We do have some bilingual masses in English and Spanish and on ash Wednesday the priest had to stop giving out ashes because there was another mass scheduled and he would not have enough time to finish the mass! Having it in Latin would have served everyone well.

 

[thirddec]

Ralph Martin wrote about it; I think the book was called “The Church at the End of an Age” and it was an overview of the Church world wide.

His comment about the Protestant inroads in Central and South America was somewhat succinct: The Church opted for the poor (Liberation Theology) and the poor opted for Christ (the Protestant Churches, which were particularly “biblically” oriented - that is, they preached Christ, and Him crucified).

In other words, the Church got caught up in a theology that was to oriented to Social Science and Political Theory (among other issues), while the Protestant churches talked about sin, about salvation, and about Christ and didn’t get into political power issues, social and economic disparities, etc.

interesting idea ; one wonders if some folks are again goin down a similar blind alley when they try and Mystify the Church service and focus on how great it all sounds and looks while asking the less educated or able for whatever reason to stare on in confusion. Rather than let the Mass and Christ speak directly to them

 

[otjm]

Because the vat majority of people in the world cannot speak Latin, nor can they translate it, this almost borders on a canard - that one could go anywhere in the world and attend the Mass in Latin -

If one simply restates the issue - "one can go anywhere in the world and attend the Mass (being said in a language one can neither read nor speak), then the question becomes - is familiarity with the sound of the words critical? And if so, why?

Latin should be retained because it is the official language of the Roman rite. there is neither anything wrong with, nor suspect of, a rite having an official language. The Maronite rite uses Aramaic and Arabic (as well as English, in the US). Other Eastern rites use Slavonic languages.

So having the Mass in Latin to an extent makes the Mass a universal experience if one attends it in a different culture with a different language. But let’s be honest; the vast majority of participants, either in the US, or Chile, or Sri Lanka, or Egypt can neither read nor speak it. So it is not much of a promotion of the EF that one can attend the EF in, say, Sri Lanka and not speak or read Latin; by far greater impact, I would suggest, is the rubrics, not the language. Hearing Latin with a Sri Lanka accent might not be quite the experience of Latin that you promote…

 

[onmyknees]

Because the vat majority of people in the world cannot speak Latin, nor can they translate it, this almost borders on a canard - that one could go anywhere in the world and attend the Mass in Latin -

If one simply restates the issue - "one can go anywhere in the world and attend the Mass (being said in a language one can neither read nor speak), then the question becomes - is familiarity with the sound of the words critical? And if so, why?

Latin should be retained because it is the official language of the Roman rite. there is neither anything wrong with, nor suspect of, a rite having an official language. The Maronite rite uses Aramaic and Arabic (as well as English, in the US). Other Eastern rites use Slavonic languages.

So having the Mass in Latin to an extent makes the Mass a universal experience if one attends it in a different culture with a different language. But let’s be honest; the vast majority of participants, either in the US, or Chile, or Sri Lanka, or Egypt can neither read nor speak it. So it is not much of a promotion of the EF that one can attend the EF in, say, Sri Lanka and not speak or read Latin; by far greater impact, I would suggest, is the rubrics, not the language. Hearing Latin with a Sri Lanka accent might not be quite the experience of Latin that you promote…

Okay, I am wrong. I was thinking of the Roman rite I guess. I thought that most priests were schooled in Latin since like you said it is the official language. Anyways I was addressing the poster before you who said that he didn’t like not being able to understand the mass in a different language. This was not my post promoting the TLM. The Catholic mass is still the mass no matter what language it is in and we still receive all the graces even if we cannot speak, read or understand the language. I do like the Latin! Do you think that it would be better if we went back to Latin in the Roman rite?

 

[otjm]

Okay, I am wrong. I was thinking of the Roman rite I guess. I thought that most priests were schooled in Latin since like you said it is the official language. Anyways I was addressing the poster before you who said that he didn’t like not being able to understand the mass in a different language. This was not my post promoting the TLM. The Catholic mass is still the mass no matter what language it is in and we still receive all the graces even if we cannot speak, read or understand the language. I do like the Latin! Do you think that it would be better if we went back to Latin in the Roman rite?

I think the EF should be widely available to those who wish to go to it, and its availability should be encouraged.

Having said that, I think that it is difficult to some degree to determine which is the greater attraction to those who prefer it: that it is in Latin, or that the Rubrics are different.

Such really doesn’t answer your question; but I think that if either - the EF or the OF - were offered in both Latin and the vernacular, we would find that the great majority of people prefer the vernacular. I think that is just the reality of the matter.

Prior to Vatican 2, (and depending on where you lived) you would find that a large number of people, and in many areas, the great majority, were not schooled in Latin sufficient to be able to translate it “on the fly”. I can’t speak to other areas of the US; I grew up on the west coast, prior to Vatican 2, and at the time that I was given my first missal, most of my classmates either did not own one or did not use it (I was in Catholic grade and high school), and the majority of the congregation did not own one - or if they did, they did not bring it to Mass. Most people simply sat(stood, knelt) through Mass; some said devotionals, those who had missals followed along, and the rest were present.

The short of it is that people - adults when Vatican 2 occurred and subsequently when the OF was presented - were thrilled with the fact that the Mass was in the vernacular. There was no sharp drop off of attendance then or at any particular time since then.

All of which really does not answer the OP’s question.

 

[onmyknees]

**** The words are flashed upon the screen****

I think adding more Latin/Greek to the mass has been a good way to help people hear the beauty of it. At our mass we sing the Sanctus, the Kyrie, and the Agnus Dei. Everyone seems to like this!

otjm

This is how I answered the OP in post #54.

Where did you get the info regarding that there was no sharp drop off of attendance after Vatican ll and since then. I was 8 yrs. old when Vatican ll was implemented and I personally know that the majority of my Catholic high school left the Church in the generations after Vatican ll including me and my 5 siblings. The hippie folk masses made me ill. Our religion classes were just about peace and love (no catechism). Our homework was all about making collages of people sharing. No wonder we left.

 

[Thomas_Casey]

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