Tired of Comments From The Priest Scandal

[reteeks21]

Some priests did horrible evil things.

Some Bishops did a poor job fixing it, and that is an understatement.

Some non-cahtolic clergy do horrible things.

Some peopel doa poor job fixing it.

Some teachers do horrible things.

Some scout leaders do horrible things.

Absolutely no good is gained by thowing stuff back at the other side. My grandmother always said if you fight fire with fire, youa re left with ashes.

Everyone needs to admit HONESTLY what was done and fix it. In Honestly, the problem that the Catholic Church had was homosexual priests going after post-pubescent boys. This is not the same clinically as pedophila, though it is just as illeagal and disturbing. Then, some bishops did not take a hard enough stand on this, moving people or thinking that the problem would fix itself.

Protestants need to see issues that they have, too.

Scouts and school boards as well.

Excellent points. If the cellibacy “idea” ( I can’t think of another word;sorry) was lifted do you think the problems in the cc dealing with priests would see a serious drop? Should I start another thread with thise question? I don’t want to get off topic.

Protestants do have their issues. I think many protestants find it easier to point the finger at catholics BECAUSE of cellibacy. In all honesty, I can’t think of any reasons, other than being sinful, as to why some protestants have fallen into such things.

 

[redrosetea]

I don’t think celibacy has a thing to do with it…There are hetrosexuals who are married that abuse children

 

[ralphinal]

Excellent points. If the cellibacy “idea” ( I can’t think of another word;sorry) was lifted do you think the problems in the cc dealing with priests would see a serious drop? Should I start another thread with thise question? I don’t want to get off topic.

Protestants do have their issues. I think many protestants find it easier to point the finger at catholics BECAUSE of cellibacy. In all honesty, I can’t think of any reasons, other than being sinful, as to why some protestants have fallen into such things.

Almost all of the studies done, both by the Catholic Church and bu others, so absolutely no correlation between celebacy and the abuse. First, the vast majority of the priests involved would not have been married in the first place. Besides, Protestant ministers have a higher rate of pedophilia and affairs, and they are not celebate.

Now, celebacy has become a whipping boy for this issue. The facts do not bear out that conclusion, however.

Basically, some people are not wired correctly. They will perform all kinds of unspeakable acts. A group of them were ordained. Now, we reap the whilrwind.

 

[reteeks21]

Almost all of the studies done, both by the Catholic Church and bu others, so absolutely no correlation between celebacy and the abuse. First, the vast majority of the priests involved would not have been married in the first place. Besides, Protestant ministers have a higher rate of pedophilia and affairs, and they are not celebate.

Now, celebacy has become a whipping boy for this issue. The facts do not bear out that conclusion, however.

Basically, some people are not wired correctly. They will perform all kinds of unspeakable acts. A group of them were ordained. Now, we reap the whilrwind.

Can you point out the studies that show this to be true? I can believe the affairs part, but I am not familiar with rampant pedophilia in the protestant church. I would like to see the info.

 

[redrosetea]

I don’t have a link for you but I have read the SA was no more prevalent in the CC than in other denominations, percentage wise

It was 2% in the CC ,and that seems to be the average for this type of thing, among all denominations

It’s a pity that there is any, but I guess there are always people in any walk of life that are weak and prey on others…even Christ picked Judas

 

[AmyS]

About 4,400 priests were accused, not 26,000.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_sex_abuse_cases

Thank you! It is amazing how quickly number get inflated.

 

[ralphinal]

Can you point out the studies that show this to be true? I can believe the affairs part, but I am not familiar with rampant pedophilia in the protestant church. I would like to see the info.

Gladly, but please not that I never said it was rampant, just higher.

A good souce is the book PEDOPHILES AND PRIESTS: Anatomy of a Contemporary Crisis by Philip Jenkins, who is Episcopalian. I cannot access it online, but you should check it out.

Anyway, here is one site. Even though it is a CAtholic source, it is well documented and cited.

According to a survey by the Washington Post, over the last four decades, less than 1.5 percent of the estimated 60,000 or more men who have served in the Catholic clergy have been accused of child sexual abuse.[iv] According to a survey by the New York Times, 1.8 percent of all priests ordained from 1950 to 2001 have been accused of child sexual abuse.[v] Thomas Kane, author of Priests are People Too, estimates that between 1 and 1.5 percent of priests have had charges made against them.[vi] Of contemporary priests, the Associated Press found that approximately two-thirds of 1 percent of priests have charges pending against them.[vii]

Almost all the priests who abuse children are homosexuals. Dr. Thomas Plante, a psychologist at Santa Clara University, found that “80 to 90% of all priests who in fact abuse minors have sexually engaged with adolescent boys, not prepubescent children. Thus, the teenager is more at risk than the young altar boy or girls of any age.”[viii]

The situation in Boston, the epicenter of the scandal, is even worse. According to the Boston Globe, “Of the clergy sex abuse cases referred to prosecutors in Eastern Massachusetts, more than 90 percent involve male victims. And the most prominent Boston lawyers for alleged victims of clergy sexual abuse have said that about 95 percent of their clients are male.”[ix]

In a database analysis of reports on more than 1,200 alleged victims of priests identified by USA Today, 85 percent were males.[x] In another study by USA Today, it was determined that of the 234 priests who have been accused of sexual abuse of a minor while serving in the nation’s 10 largest dioceses and archdioceses, 91 percent of their victims were males.[xi]

Much has been made of a survey done by the Dallas Morning News which claims that two-thirds of the nation’s bishops have allowed priests accused of sexual abuse to continue working. But the problem with the survey is its definition of abuse—it includes everything from “ignoring warnings about suspicious behavior” to “criminal convictions.”[xii] Thus, the survey is of limited utility.

and from the same site

In a 1984 survey, 38.6 percent of ministers reported sexual contact with a church member, and 76 percent knew of another minister who had had sexual intercourse with a parishioner.[xiii] In the same year, a Fuller Seminary survey of 1,200 ministers found that 20 percent of theologically “conservative” pastors admitted to some sexual contact outside of marriage with a church member. The figure jumped to over 40 percent for “moderates”; 50 percent of “liberal” pastors confessed to similar behavior.[xiv]

In 1990, in a study by the Park Ridge Center for the Study of Health, Faith and Ethics in Chicago, it was learned that 10 percent of ministers said they had had an affair with a parishioner and about 25 percent admitted some sexual contact with a parishioner.[xv] Two years later, a survey by Leadership magazine found that 37 percent of ministers confessed to having been involved in “inappropriate sexual behavior” with a parishioner.[xvi]

In a 1993 survey by the Journal of Pastoral Care, 14 percent of Southern Baptist ministers said they had engaged in “inappropriate sexual behavior,” and 70 percent said they knew a minister who had had such contact with a parishioner.[xvii] Joe E. Trull is co-author of the 1993 book, Ministerial Ethics, and he found that “from 30 to 35 percent of ministers of all denominations admit to having sexual relationships—from inappropriate touching to sexual intercourse—outside of marriage.”[xviii]

According to a 2000 report to the Baptist General Convention in Texas, “The incidence of sexual abuse by clergy has reached ‘horrific proportions.’” It noted that in studies done in the 1980s, 12 percent of ministers had “engaged in sexual intercourse with members” and nearly 40 percent had “acknowledged sexually inappropriate behavior.” The report concluded that “The disturbing aspect of all research is that the rate of incidence for clergy exceeds the client-professional rate for physicians and psychologists.”[xix] Regarding pornography and sexual addiction, a national survey disclosed that about 20 percent of all ministers are involved in the behavior.[xx]

In the spring of 2002, when the sexual abuse scandal in the Catholic Church was receiving unprecedented attention, the Christian Science Monitor reported on the results of national surveys by Christian Ministry Resources. The conclusion: “Despite headlines focusing on the priest pedophile problem in the Roman Catholic Church, most American churches being hit with child sexual-abuse allegations are Protestant, and most of the alleged abusers are not clergy or staff, but church volunteers.”[xxi]

Finally, in the authoritative work by Penn State professor Philip Jenkins, Pedophiles and Priests, it was determined that between .2 and 1.7 percent of priests are pedophiles. The figure among the Protestant clergy ranges between 2 and 3 percent.[xxii]

Basically, twice as like for just child molestation. I am not even touching the adultry part.

From this site

The surveys suggest that over the past decade, the pace of child-abuse allegations against American churches has averaged 70 a week. The surveys registered a slight downward trend in reported abuse starting in 1997, possibly a result of the introduction of preventive measures by churches.

. . . James Cobble, executive director of CMR, who oversees the survey, says the data show that child sex-abuse happens broadly across all denominations– and that clergy aren’t the major offenders.

“The Catholics have gotten all the attention from the media, but this problem is even greater with the Protestant churches simply because of their far larger numbers,” he says.

I hope this helps/

 

[AmyS]

I don’t have a link for you but I have read the SA was no more prevalent in the CC than in other denominations, percentage wise

It was 2% in the CC ,and that seems to be the average for this type of thing, among all denominations

It’s a pity that there is any, but I guess there are always people in any walk of life that are weak and prey on others…even Christ picked Judas

Philip Jenkins talks about this in his book and articles. zenit.org/article-3922?l=english

amazon.com/Pedophiles-Priests-Anatomy-Contemporary-Crisis/dp/0195145976/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1211989499&sr=1-7

It was actually less prevelant in the Catholic Church, than any other institution!

 

[reteeks21]

Gladly, but please not that I never said it was rampant, just higher.

A good souce is the book PEDOPHILES AND PRIESTS: Anatomy of a Contemporary Crisis by Philip Jenkins, who is Episcopalian. I cannot access it online, but you should check it out.

Anyway, here is one site. Even though it is a CAtholic source, it is well documented and cited.

and from the same site

Basically, twice as like for just child molestation. I am not even touching the adultry part.

From this site

I hope this helps/

Thanks. I will spend some time going over this. I appreciate it.

Note: I wasn’t thinking when I put rampant in there. Total accident. My apologies.

 

[AmyS]

Gladly, but please not that I never said it was rampant, just higher.

A good souce is the book PEDOPHILES AND PRIESTS: Anatomy of a Contemporary Crisis by Philip Jenkins, who is Episcopalian. I cannot access it online, but you should check it out.

Anyway, here is one site. Even though it is a CAtholic source, it is well documented and cited.

and from the same site

Basically, twice as like for just child molestation. I am not even touching the adultry part.

From this site

I hope this helps/

Beat me to it!

 

[AmyS]

Almost all of the studies done, both by the Catholic Church and bu others, so absolutely no correlation between celebacy and the abuse. First, the vast majority of the priests involved would not have been married in the first place. Besides, Protestant ministers have a higher rate of pedophilia and affairs, and they are not celebate.

Now, celebacy has become a whipping boy for this issue. The facts do not bear out that conclusion, however.

Basically, some people are not wired correctly. They will perform all kinds of unspeakable acts. A group of them were ordained. Now, we reap the whilrwind.

Thank you again. I have posted on another thread that I have worked with Victims of Crimes for years. I have focused the majority of my studies on sexually based crimes. It is so wrong for people to think celebacy = the problem. The FAR majority of sexual predators are married or in a committed relationship.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Besides, Protestant ministers have a higher rate of pedophilia and affairs, and they are not celebate.

affairs, yes. sex abuse, i doubt it.

its also obvious that theres higher percentage of homos in the priesthood than among non-catholic clergy (ministers, rabbis, imams, etc)

Now, celebacy has become a whipping boy for this issue. The facts do not bear out that conclusion, however.

sex is a powerful human need. did not the apostle paul made the suggestion that marriage hinders sexual immorality? its plausible that public servants who cant get laid are more pressured by sexual temptations.

and the facts are obviously not all laid out. there are still sex secrets out there that has yet to be revealed.

 

[elvisman]

affairs, yes. sex abuse, i doubt it.

its also obvious that theres higher percentage of homos in the priesthood than among non-catholic clergy (ministers, rabbis, imams, etc)

sex is a powerful human need. did not the apostle paul made the suggestion that marriage hinders sexual immorality? its plausible that public servants who cant get laid are more pressured by sexual temptations.

and the facts are obviously not all laid out. there are still sex secrets out there that has yet to be revealed.

**Wrong again, Agnos - as usual.
**
Of the 350,000 churches in the US, 19,500 – 5% – are Roman Catholic.
Since 1993, on average about 1% of surveyed Protestant churches reported abuse allegations annually.
That means on average, about 3,500 allegations annually, or nearly 70 per among the Protestant group. these have been accross the board with more than 45% involving adults with children.
The Catholic Church is just an easy target because of the celibacy issue.

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As for your remarks about getting “laid” - grow up. If you can’t discuss this topic without resorting to profanity - don’t post.:tsktsk:

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As I’ve stated many times - you are nothing but an antagonist and a baiter. My point is proven yet again . . .

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[Cathdefender]

Thank you! It is amazing how quickly number get inflated.

Numbers I quoted were worldwide.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Wrong again, Agnos - as usual.

Of the 350,000 churches in the US, 19,500 – 5% – are Roman Catholic.
Since 1993, on average about 1% of surveyed Protestant churches reported abuse allegations annually.
That means on average, about 3,500 allegations annually, or nearly 70 per among the Protestant group. these have been accross the board with more than 45% involving adults with children.

No one really knows the rate of abuses in the Catholic clergy. Because priests are more private and they enjoy better protection. better cover-up.

The Catholic Church is just an easy target because of the celibacy issue.

no, its because of the cover-ups.

 

[dosdog]

Going back through history to dig up skeletons is not a good tactic for defending catholicism. Which rivals Islam in past atrocities.

Investigating the popular myth.
Edward Peters’s Inquisition (1988) and Henry Kamen’s The Spanish Inquisition (1997), but there are others. Simply put, historians have long known that the popular view of the Inquisition is a myth. So what is the truth?
nationalreview.com/comment/madden200406181026.asp

Deaths
Joseph Stalin 1929–1953 ----- 43,000,000
Mao Zedong 1923–1976 --------77,000,000
Kublai Khan 1252–1279 --------19,000,000
Tai Ping Rebellion 1859-64 ----12,000,000
Mongols 14th–15th Century----29,000,000

 

[AgnosTheist]

^ That merely say that the inquisition isnt as bad as it seemed. but still bad. killing a convicted heretic. a good reason for Pope Paul’s apology.

Buddhist & Hindus at that time were nowhere near as brutal.

 

[dosdog]

^ That merely say that the inquisition isnt as bad as it seemed. but still bad. killing a convicted heretic. a good reason for Pope Paul’s apology.

Buddhist & Hindus at that time werent that brutal.

Despite popular myth, the Inquisition did not burn heretics. It was the secular authorities that held heresy to be a capital offense, not the Church. The simple fact is that the medieval Inquisition saved uncounted thousands of innocent (and even not-so-innocent) people who would otherwise have been roasted by secular lords or mob rule.
nationalreview.com/comment/madden200406181026.asp

 

[AgnosTheist]

It was the secular authorities that held heresy to be a capital offense, not the Church.

There was no such thing as “secular authorities” at that time. from your article:

From the perspective of secular authorities, heretics were traitors to God and the king and therefore deserved death

secular authorities who believe that there are traitors to God??? thats a stupid contradiction, my friend.

a real secular authority knows how to separate the church & the state. they would not prosecute anybody in service to a religion.

 

[dosdog]

There was no such thing as “secular authorities” at that time. from your article:

From the perspective of secular authorities, heretics were traitors to God and the king and therefore deserved death

secular authorities who believe that there are traitors to God??? thats a stupid contradiction, my friend.

a real secular authority knows how to separate the church & the state. they would not prosecute anybody in service to a religion.

medieval notions of kingship in his theory of the Divine Right of Kings, a theory which argued that certain kings ruled because they were chosen by God to do so and that these kings were accountable to no person except God.
wsu.edu/~dee/GLOSSARY/DIVRIGHT.HTM