Tired Rant

[Allegory]

I’m not the type to rant and complain (at least not the type to do it online like this).

My wife and I attend a parish in the South, the church is 150 years old and beautiful. We are lucky enough to have an EF mass every Sunday and Monday. For the EF, a nearby (30 minutes away) priest travels to the parish.

Usually my wife and I attend the OF, but I love the EF and attend on occasion.

The priest starts his sermon by focusing on today’s first reading:
usccb.org/nab/readings/080209.shtml

He said we often look back on the past and only remember the good things and forget the bad – we often do this with the church pre-Vatican 2.

What I learned today from our priest about the church pre-Vatican 2:
-Most woman today would not be allowed in church then because they have their upper arms showing and because they aren’t wearing a veil. (Laughter).
-Most men today would not be allowed in church then because they aren’t well dress – no jeans, T-shirts, or shorts then. (Laughter).
-Bathrooms weren’t allowed in a church then. You weren’t allowed to leave the church to go to the bathroom. You had to sit with your legs crossed because you had to go to the bathroom sometimes. (Laughter) …I find this every hard to believe…
-25% of the people came to pray the Rosary even thought it wasn’t allowed.
-25% of the people came to sleep. (Laughter). Nothing new here. (Laughter)
-25% of the people came to listen to music or to socialize.
-25% came for the mass but didn’t understand the Latin unless then had a missile which wasn’t, shockingly, provided by the church. Even then it was impossible to follow along.
-The EF isn’t the real Latin mass, the OF is the real Latin mass even though he doesn’t say it in Latin, it is the mass of the Latin rite of the Church, and it is the norm.
-Because think the old times were great, much like the Jews thought being in Egypt was great, but they forgot they were slaves, were in chains, and were whipped.
-They did respect the Eucharist, which was good.

He then goes into a brief discussing tying Cash For Clunkers to the bread of life discourse from the Gospel.

At the end of the mass, before the final blessing, he said “and I just had one other thought, I doubt we’ll ever get back to the old mass because I doubt many of you women would agree to were a near-burka again.” (More Laughter). When he said that, poeple that attend the EF were waiting outside the nave with their veils on. I don’t know if he heard it.

Our pastor has never shown his colors like this before, and I always thought he was at least sympathetic to the EF since he allows it to be said at his church. But now I can see he’s really not that sympathetic and was likely “forced” to allow it by our very sympathetic bishop.

You can all pick the sermon apart, if you want, but some times I just want to give up. Even though the Latin mass community “uses” this church, he is still their pastor and he fails to act like it. Some times I just want to show up every Sunday and get it over with and stop worrying about traditional vs. liberal, EF vs OF, etc. I don’t see how a house divided against itself is going to stand. It all makes me very tired.

 

[thunderballs75]

Hey, if you have a Latin Mass there, that’s all I would worry about. Worry about keeping it there too. I’m sure he speaks like this out of resentment, because he doesn’t want the Latin Mass to be there. It’s good. Even if he doesn’t like it, it doesn’t mean it isn’t right. Having a BISHOP who WANTS the Latin Mass is the greatest blessing ever. I’d endure a thousand condescending homilies to enjoy that.

 

[crenfro]

It all makes me very tired.

Have you talked, courteously, with this priest about how you felt discouraged and tired after you heard him talk like this during his sermon?

Maybe everyone needs some time to adjust to the new changes, even your priest, who is also a human being like the rest of us.

Could you use your “tired” feeling as redemptive suffering - you know, offer it up?

Don’t throw in the towel at the start of the race.

Anyway, I was intrigued by the thread you began because I’ve been feeling “tired” too lately - of praying, of hearing sermons that dance around issues instead of directly addressing them, tired of my own lack of progress and loss of some enthusiasm.

I’d started during last Lent to go to daily Mass and now I can’t seem to drag myself to it. I’d been reading spiritual books and now I don’t seem to care so much. When I listen to the Catholic radio, some programs don’t even seem as interesting as they were. What IS this tiredness thing?

Thanks for your topic, I appreciate it.

 

[RosaryCrusader]

-The EF isn’t the real Latin mass, the OF is the real Latin mass even though he doesn’t say it in Latin, it is the mass of the Latin rite of the Church, and it is the norm.

I was waiting for the [laughter] comment after this one too… but, no.

Not to sound like a jerk but you say you mostly attend the NO and then want to complain when someone attacks the TLM? Despite what people claim the two are opposed (and this Priest is honest enough to admit it); The NO was born of a spirit of ecumenism and focuses on man (the horizontal element) while the TLM is the Mass of the Catholic faithful with it’s focus on the vertical [God]. One eschews beauty, reverence, modesty, and sobriety the other demands it.

 

[John_Grudzien]

And they say that we Traditonalists have a superiority complex:confused ?
It does get really fatiguing to come up against this attitude all of the time! No matter, I’m not going to let them keep me away from the Eucharist for another 30 years as what happened in the past. I often felt like the Church left me, not me the Church!
So now I just go, try amongst all of the usual cacauphony, with the organ, flute and trumpet all trying to outdo each other( in different keys ) providing the entertainment(?) from the pages of the OCP song book (Hymnal just doesn’t cover the explanation of that publication), trying not to notice the very short and skin-tight coverings(?) on the person in front of me, trying to converse with the LORD after Communion with all of the attendant racket coming from the choir loft, etc… and hope that the Lord does hear me and understands my feelings for Him and what He did for alI of us:shrug:

 

[OhMalley]

I’m not the type to rant and complain (at least not the type to do it online like this).

My wife and I attend a parish in the South, the church is 150 years old and beautiful. We are lucky enough to have an EF mass every Sunday and Monday. For the EF, a nearby (30 minutes away) priest travels to the parish.

Usually my wife and I attend the OF, but I love the EF and attend on occasion.

The priest starts his sermon by focusing on today’s first reading:
usccb.org/nab/readings/080209.shtml

He said we often look back on the past and only remember the good things and forget the bad – we often do this with the church pre-Vatican 2.

What I learned today from our priest about the church pre-Vatican 2:
-Most woman today would not be allowed in church then because they have their upper arms showing and because they aren’t wearing a veil. (Laughter).
-Most men today would not be allowed in church then because they aren’t well dress – no jeans, T-shirts, or shorts then. (Laughter).
-Bathrooms weren’t allowed in a church then. You weren’t allowed to leave the church to go to the bathroom. You had to sit with your legs crossed because you had to go to the bathroom sometimes. (Laughter) …I find this every hard to believe…
-25% of the people came to pray the Rosary even thought it wasn’t allowed.
-25% of the people came to sleep. (Laughter). Nothing new here. (Laughter)
-25% of the people came to listen to music or to socialize.
-25% came for the mass but didn’t understand the Latin unless then had a missile which wasn’t, shockingly, provided by the church. Even then it was impossible to follow along.
-The EF isn’t the real Latin mass, the OF is the real Latin mass even though he doesn’t say it in Latin, it is the mass of the Latin rite of the Church, and it is the norm.
-Because think the old times were great, much like the Jews thought being in Egypt was great, but they forgot they were slaves, were in chains, and were whipped.
-They did respect the Eucharist, which was good.

He then goes into a brief discussing tying Cash For Clunkers to the bread of life discourse from the Gospel.

At the end of the mass, before the final blessing, he said “and I just had one other thought, I doubt we’ll ever get back to the old mass because I doubt many of you women would agree to were a near-burka again.” (More Laughter). When he said that, poeple that attend the EF were waiting outside the nave with their veils on. I don’t know if he heard it.

Our pastor has never shown his colors like this before, and I always thought he was at least sympathetic to the EF since he allows it to be said at his church. But now I can see he’s really not that sympathetic and was likely “forced” to allow it by our very sympathetic bishop.

You can all pick the sermon apart, if you want, but some times I just want to give up. Even though the Latin mass community “uses” this church, he is still their pastor and he fails to act like it. Some times I just want to show up every Sunday and get it over with and stop worrying about traditional vs. liberal, EF vs OF, etc. I don’t see how a house divided against itself is going to stand. It all makes me very tired.

*The division is sickening. * This “traditional vs. liberal” stuff is the work of Satan.

Have you ever wondered or asked your pastor about what sorta of pressure the EFers apply or try to apply to him? While his comments should not have been made, I would bet they were made out of frustration.

 

[RosaryCrusader]

*The division is sickening. * This “traditional vs. liberal” stuff is the work of Satan.

Have you ever wondered or asked your pastor about what sorta of pressure the EFers apply or try to apply to him? While his comments should not have been made, I would bet they were made out of frustration.

Ohmalley,

Doctrinal liberalism, being a degradation of Divinely revealed doctrine (modernism), certainly is the work of the devil. Although I think you’re implying a sort of ‘harmless’ political meaning when you speak of ‘traditional vs. liberal’ which cannot be done without harm to the integrity of the faith. More appropriately it is a battle of the Catholic Faith vs. progressivism.

I cannot speak for the OP but as far as my personal experiences goes I would wager that the Priest was not lashing out at those ‘unruly’ Latin-Massers and it’s quite unfair for you to assume as much.It wouldn’t make much sense for a Priest to lash out against something holy because of individuals- much like it wouldn’t make much sense if a Priest started lashing out and preaching against the rosary simply because parishioners are requesting it be said or that it’s said before the ‘other Masses so why not this one?’

Yes, the whole thing is sickening - Our Lady of Akita warned us that the Church would be full of those who accept compromises and that we would see Cardinal against Cardinal - Bishop against Bishop.

 

[Evan]

-Bathrooms weren’t allowed in a church then. You weren’t allowed to leave the church to go to the bathroom. You had to sit with your legs crossed because you had to go to the bathroom sometimes. (Laughter) …I find this every hard to believe…

I know there was a bathroom in the Cathedral and we were allowed to use it during mass when I grew up (in the 50’s and 60’s). Although when we were serving for the bishop, it was discouraged.

-25% of the people came to pray the Rosary even thought it wasn’t allowed.

I’d say more like 2.5%

-25% of the people came to sleep. (Laughter). Nothing new here. (Laughter)

I’d say more like 0.25%

-25% of the people came to listen to music or to socialize.

That is part of the mass. It is a social expression of our faith. That is why we gather TOGETHER. The music is there to be listened to, as is the homily.

-25% came for the mass but didn’t understand the Latin unless then had a missile which wasn’t, shockingly, provided by the church.

That is why every church I ever attended provided missals

Even then it was impossible to follow along.

They were very easy to follow before the change of language (8th grade). At that time, the only missal I ever purchased was when the new translation came out.

-The EF isn’t the real Latin mass, the OF is the real Latin mass even though he doesn’t say it in Latin, it is the mass of the Latin rite of the Church, and it is the norm.

He should write the pope on this one Why does he not say it in Latin. This is the official language and he needs permission from the bishop for an English mass, not a Latin mass.

-They did respect the Eucharist, which was good.

at least some of them did (oh… that’s like today too)

 

[Allegory]

I didn’t get the chance to reply the past few days, but I just wanted to take a little time to explain where this “tired” feeling comes from.

Some one asked why I attend the OF and not the EF. It is because my wife is a Baptist convert. While she can understand my appreciation for the EF, she believes it is lacking the horizontal aspect among other things. I can understand where she is coming from – her entire life she attended a church her grandmother attended when she was young. A small rural community Baptist church. I can see desire for that. We both agree our church has no sense of that community except for the faked forced community of hand shaking after the priest processes in. Interestingly, from what I’ve seen the EF community is much stronger.

She agrees the EF is rich, but what’s the point if all you can do is follow along in a missile and/or pray? She can pray just as easily in private.

We discuss which is more beautiful – EF or OF. I believe the EF is, but she believes that’s relative. To some the new mass might be more beautiful and moving. I’m sure she is right, but I honestly never thought that.

We discuss which is “better”. Again I believe the EF, but I hesitate when I say that. I think the Gnostic Traditionalists (wdtprs.com/blog/2009/08/stuart-reid-on-gnostic-traditionalists) article that’s been discussed expresses some of my concerns. What am I missing at the OF when I think like this? Do I miss the fullness of grace that can come from the Eucharist? What am I missing when I worry about girl alter servers, communion under both forms, music, EP1 vs. EP2, announcements during mass, etc?

I used to attend the EF once a week, but my wife was hurt by this. She felt like I was just going to the OF on Sunday, but I felt like I was going to the “real thing” on weekdays. She made the point that if she attended a weekday Baptist service, how would I feel. I never thought about that, but I can see her point.

I guess what makes me tired is the back and forth between conservative/liberal, EF/OF, new translation/old translation, etc. I think about it, I talk about, I read about it, and now I hear about it at mass. I’m tired of reading about it. I’m tired of needing a masters of theology and needing to be a liturgical expert and failing to express my thoughts well.

If it was just me I would likely dive into the EF, but I can’t do that. Sometimes it feels like I’m in limbo between the two. I defiantly appreciate how far my wife has come with me and I can’t force her dive into the EF with me nor would I want to. I just pray she is able to grow in the Church as I hope I can.

 

[dava4444]

Hi!

Just to throw in a thought, but

they should bring back a better dress code for women and here’s why:

I was watching songs of praise on BBC 1 on a Sunday a while back, and this 20 something women was singing about Jesus, in a VERY low cut dress. …to her: listen hen, nobody wants to see that, put them away for your husband.

Paul Specifically says it is shameful for women NOT to have there hair covered. this girl had 3 ft long hair. and why do women need make-up to go to mass? the veil was much better.

I am not sexist, if any women can say anything comparable about men I’ll agree.

peace

David

 

[Mrs_Sally]

I didn’t get the chance to reply the past few days, but I just wanted to take a little time to explain where this “tired” feeling comes from.

Some one asked why I attend the OF and not the EF. It is because my wife is a Baptist convert. While she can understand my appreciation for the EF, she believes it is lacking the horizontal aspect among other things. I can understand where she is coming from – her entire life she attended a church her grandmother attended when she was young. A small rural community Baptist church. I can see desire for that. We both agree our church has no sense of that community except for the faked forced community of hand shaking after the priest processes in. Interestingly, from what I’ve seen the EF community is much stronger.

She agrees the EF is rich, but what’s the point if all you can do is follow along in a missile and/or pray? She can pray just as easily in private.

We discuss which is more beautiful – EF or OF. I believe the EF is, but she believes that’s relative. To some the new mass might be more beautiful and moving. I’m sure she is right, but I honestly never thought that.

We discuss which is “better”. Again I believe the EF, but I hesitate when I say that. I think the Gnostic Traditionalists (wdtprs.com/blog/2009/08/stuart-reid-on-gnostic-traditionalists) article that’s been discussed expresses some of my concerns. What am I missing at the OF when I think like this? Do I miss the fullness of grace that can come from the Eucharist? What am I missing when I worry about girl alter servers, communion under both forms, music, EP1 vs. EP2, announcements during mass, etc?

I used to attend the EF once a week, but my wife was hurt by this. She felt like I was just going to the OF on Sunday, but I felt like I was going to the “real thing” on weekdays. She made the point that if she attended a weekday Baptist service, how would I feel. I never thought about that, but I can see her point.

I guess what makes me tired is the back and forth between conservative/liberal, EF/OF, new translation/old translation, etc. I think about it, I talk about, I read about it, and now I hear about it at mass. I’m tired of reading about it. I’m tired of needing a masters of theology and needing to be a liturgical expert and failing to express my thoughts well.

If it was just me I would likely dive into the EF, but I can’t do that. Sometimes it feels like I’m in limbo between the two. ** I defiantly appreciate how far my wife has come with me and I can’t force her dive into the EF with me nor would I want to.** I just pray she is able to grow in the Church as I hope I can.

Your issue is not really what the priest said at all. It seems to me that you should, for now, put down all your books and discussions aboutt he differences between the forms of the Mass. Concentrate on your wife. Attend your local parish, join the Legion of Mary together, find ways to draw her into her new Catholic faith without dumping her into what she thinks of as the ‘deep end’ of the EF.

At home you can start up some traditional practices if you’d like. Celebrate your Name days, do something special for wonderful feasts like the Transfiguration (Aug 6) and The Assumption on Aug 15. Ask her to pray a daily rosary with you. Basically, back off talking and thinking about the EF and focus on what you can do to help you both grow in your faith together.

 

[Allegory]

Errr… I definitely appreciate it, not defiantly appreciate it.

Anyway, solid advice Mrs Sally. You’re right - my main issue with what our priest said was it really made me realize how spiritually sickening obsessing on things can be.

We need to do more small spiritual things together. We were reading the Bible nightly but kind of lost that in our busyness.