'Tis the Halloween Season for Pagan Questions

[IanCorrigan]

I continue to enjoy hanging out here at CAF, and find the general level of discourse pretty high. In this ‘halloween’ season I can make myself available to answer questions about modern (neo)Pagan religions, occultism and matters surrounding the Feast of Samhain.
Perhaps you have neighbors or family members involved in the unusual but harmless, even positive traditions of Wicca, neo-Druidry or other Pagan practice. Perhaps you’ve read some of the ‘occult experts’ that occasionally sell their work in Christian contexts, and have questions as to their information and authenticity. Perhaps you’d just like to know whay anyone bothers. I’ll be glad to spend some time answering as we approach the turning of our sacred year.
For general good information on the origins and lore of Halloween, you can’t do better than: neopagan.net/Halloween-Origins.html
Obviously I don’t expect Catholics to find our ways doctrinally acceptable, but I would like to help people understand modern Paganism, and know that it poses no threat to individuals or to culture.
Nine Blessings
Ian

 

[Dempsey1919]

How did you come to embrace paganism? What is it about this belief system that you like?

 

[Publisher]

Ian,

I have some close friends who are Wiccan. They are very “earth centered” and responsible people. They work in their community and volunteer time and resources to assist the less fortunate.

We have discussed spiritual things on and off for quite a few years…I have attended a couple of their "open circles’ and they have attended Meeting with me a few times.

While it is not “my cup of tea”, I find nothing malevolent in their beliefs…they use “outward forms” in much the same way as most Christian traditions use “outward forms”…water to cleanse, incense to purify sacred space, cups and pattens, staffs, wands and knives. Wine and “cakes” during their rituals and blessings to those participating in their rituals.

I’m sure this discussion will range from benign to hostile.

Good luck…

Bright Blessings to you.

 

[IanCorrigan]

How did you come to embrace paganism? What is it about this belief system that you like?

I’ve been Pagan (one sort or another in an evolving story) since I was a mid-teen, when I self-identified based on reading. I was raised a moderate Protestant,(Campbellist for those who care) but never took any of that seriously - when I began to read about Neopagan Wicca, I immediately felt that to be the sort of thing I wanted. I’ve worked for the last 20-ish years with a Druidic group, doing public ritual, teaching etc.

I find polytheism too logical and descriptive of reality to reject. I am pleased to be in at the start of a religious movement(Neopaganism is about 100 years old in the english-speaking world, with vast growth in the last 50 years, I’ve been active for about 30) in which I can apply my own creativity and inspiration to creating the rites and works we do. I find my devotional relationships with the Gods, Goddesses and Spirits very rewarding and empowering. I find Nature to be the single most reliable revelation of the form and process of the divine, and in fact I tend to view natural things as containing the divine spirit. This means I move and live among divine things every day, an intimate and direct association.

I think a search on my name here at CAF will still turn up my debut posts in which I critique the “Anti-Neopagan Apologetics” article on this site.

 

[Dempsey1919]

Ian,

Thanks for replying. Although I will always remain a devout Catholic, I find the pagan movements interesting, and I am looking forward to learning more about your faith.

I began to read about Neopagan Wicca, I immediately felt that to be the sort of thing I wanted. I’ve worked for the last 20-ish years with a Druidic group, doing public ritual, teaching etc.

Does Neopaganism have anything in common with the religion that was practiced by the Celtic peoples of northern Europe? Or is neopaganism more concerned with honouring the Gods of Ancient Rome and Greece?

I notice that you have identified yourself with a Druidic group. As far as I am aware, the Druids were ancient Celtic holymen and mystics. Very little is known about these individuals, but there is some evidence to suggest that they practiced human sacrifice. What similarities does your group share with the ancient Druids and how do you know that the religion you practice is actually Druidic in nature?

 

[IanCorrigan]

Does Neopaganism have anything in common with the religion that was practiced by the Celtic peoples of northern Europe? Or is neopaganism more concerned with honouring the Gods of Ancient Rome and Greece?

The Neopagan Family of religions includes many of the cultures of pre-Christian Europe and the Middle East, but much of Neopaganism is quite syncretic, picking and choosing from the vast menu of ethnic customs, new-age techniques and the traditions of western ‘occultism’ - medieval magic and folklore.

The most common sort of neopaganism is Neopagan Witchcraft, often called ‘Wicca’. Even that category is extremely local, with each small group creating their own variant.

All that diversity is precisely in keeping with the way real pre-Christian religion worked. Paganism was always local, specific and often family-based, with each family hearth the holy place of the family religion. Small groups and big temples made up the vast spectrum of ancient religion and so it does of Neopaganism today.

**I notice that you have identified yourself with a Druidic group. As far as I am aware, the Druids were ancient Celtic holymen and mystics. **

Yes, my own work is focused especially on the Gaelic ways of Ireland and Scotland.

**Very little is known about these individuals, but there is some evidence to suggest that they practiced human sacrifice. **

Our group is a part of the tradition called Reformed Druidism, which means, at least, that we have given up human and animal life offerings in favor of more manageable ones. 99% of Neopagans have abandoned animal sacrifice - only a very few have the rural skills to kill, dress and distribute an animal offering, and almost none actually choose to do it. You can have a look at some related ideas at paganachd.com/
Ian

 

[Lilyflower]

Alightly off thread, I think Halloween is most mis-understood by many Christians. It is essentially Christian and has nothing whatsoever to do with paganism or any non-Christian religion.

Hallow is an old English word for Holy hence in Lords prayer ‘Hallowed be thy Name!’ ‘Een’ is an old English word for Eve.

So we have the Eve of all Hallows or Eve of All Saints. I think that is reason enough for Christians to celebrate and what better way than in traditional Christian worship.

The modern manifestations of Halloween are symbolic of what Christ conquered on the cross, holding no power over us.

Blessings and peace

 

[cyberwolf001]

Great stuff Ian as always.

My question is what do you think about people getting so worked up over how to pronounce Samhein? Honestly my view is what’s the big deal regional dialects will very.

 

[Dempsey1919]

The Neopagan Family of religions includes many of the cultures of pre-Christian Europe and the Middle East, but much of Neopaganism is quite syncretic, picking and choosing from the vast menu of ethnic customs, new-age techniques and the traditions of western ‘occultism’ - medieval magic and folklore.

Neopaganism seems to be a very personal creed, in the sense that the believer can decide for himself what to believe and what not to believe. However, are there any beliefs which are binding on all pagans? All Christians, regardless of denomination believe in Christ. Is there a similar belief which unites all creeds of paganism?

All that diversity is precisely in keeping with the way real pre-Christian religion worked.

What documents, or Scriptures do you use in order to discern actual pre-Christian pagan practices? Do pagans have a Holy Book like the Bible for Christians and the Quran for Muslims?

I am trying to discover the common beliefs of paganism and I would like to know what is accepted as an authority on belief, such as a book or a series of written traditions. Without any shared, common beliefs that are accepted by all, paganism seems to lack credibility as a real belief system. The reason I come to this conclusion is because individual pagans are essentially creating their own religion.

 

[Roza]

Ligouri back in the 80’s had several pages on all hallow’s eve. In my meandering days I even tried running a yahoo club called ‘Spiritual Quest’, yeah, I was still on a quest. Had a picture of Stonehedge for the club graphic. Read a little about druids etc. But I’ve studied on a lot of things that were taking my eyes away from God. It’s odd how so much can still seem so foreign to me.

 

[IanCorrigan]

Great stuff Ian as always.

My question is what do you think about people getting so worked up over how to pronounce Samhein? Honestly my view is what’s the big deal regional dialects will very.

One thing we can be sure of is that no dialect of Irish pronounces it ‘sam hane’ - that’s just not an option for pronouncing that spelling in that language. Other than that there are many variations. I prefer ‘sow-un’ with the ‘sow’ like a female swine.

In the same vein there was never a Celtic God of the Dead named ‘Samhain’.

 

[IanCorrigan]

Neopaganism seems to be a very personal creed, in the sense that the believer can decide for himself what to believe and what not to believe. However, are there any beliefs which are binding on all pagans? All Christians, regardless of denomination believe in Christ. Is there a similar belief which unites all creeds of paganism?

One thing that’s hard for Christians to grasp is that most Paganism isn’t about ‘creed’. I know of very few Pagan sects that require a ‘statement of belief’ from members. Paganism is much more about what one does than what one believes. Pagans share common ritual forms, and understand them in similar ways, and that’s what makes us Pagans. We are not required (or even encouraged) to find uniformity of explanation of the nature of the deities, for instance, or of the human soul - doctrines of that sort are the object of interesting discussion, but are not central to identification as Pagan.

I suppose if I were to identify a unifying belief among Pagans it might be that by focused use of human skill, such as ritual, divination and meditation, humans are capable of creating and maintaining relationships with the divine.

What documents, or Scriptures do you use in order to discern actual pre-Christian pagan practices? Do pagans have a Holy Book like the Bible for Christians and the Quran for Muslims?

We do not. Pagans use all the writings of pre-Christian religious thinkers to discern what we know about the old ways. Those of us who focus on a specific ethnic mythic structure focus on those sources. As a Druid we draw on 4 major sources: Greek and Roman writers on the Celts; literature created in the time of conversion that preserves old lore; archeological discoveries, and the folklore of later-period Celtic-speaking nations such as Ireland and Wales. From these we find the bricks we use to build our new structures.

In general Paganism prefers to do without the idea of special revelation. We tend to hold that each human is capable, by nature, of truly relating with the divine, and that guidance from wuse people only serves as training and support for that effort. Pagans don’t search for an authority to explain the ways to us, we search for teachers to help us gain the skills to make our own ways.

I am trying to discover the common beliefs of paganism and I would like to know what is accepted as an authority on belief, such as a book or a series of written traditions. Without any shared, common beliefs that are accepted by all, paganism seems to lack credibility as a real belief system. The reason I come to this conclusion is because individual pagans are essentially creating their own religion.

Paganism isn’t so much a belief system as a system of practice. We often have agnostic or even atheistic folks come to our rites, drawn by interest in the lore or friendship with members. We always just tell them to do the rites and see what happens - many end of working with the Gods and Spirits as we do. This approach to religion isn’t uncommon - have a search on ‘orthopraxy’ as opposed to ‘orthodoxy’.

Why would you expect self-created religions to have less authority than the Pope?

 

[Dempsey1919]

Why would you expect self-created religions to have less authority than the Pope?

This question requires a long answer as it deals first with Christ and his earthly mission, and secondly, with how he chose to transmit his teachings throughout history after his Ascension into Heaven. I think a detailed answer is not appropriate to this thread, so I will do my best to provide an accurate and concise answer.

All authority was given to the office of the Papacy by Christ. The Pope does not have any authority that was not given to him by the Lord. Christ having all authority, has chosen to give authority to the leader of his Church on earth. Therefore, the Pope has more spiritual authority than others only because Christ gave this authority to St. Peter; and as the Successor of St. Peter, the Pope inherited this authority.

Also, the Pope does not create new teachings. The Pope, and those Bishops in communion with him are responsible for defending and explaining the Sacred Deposit of Faith. After Christ and his Apostles, there was no further Revelation and there will be no new Revelation until the Glorious return of Christ at the end of time.
…

Paganism isn’t so much a belief system as a system of practice.

If it is not a belief system, what is the purpose of the practices? Surely, they involve faith and worship in some form of deity? If they do involve some form of worship, were do pagans get knowledge of the various deities or gods?

 

[Dempsey1919]

Just out of curiosity, have you seen the film The Wicker Man? Without the human sacrifice and the nudity, is this an accurate portrayal of paganism? However, I am sure that paganism was dramatised to an extent in order to create a more enjoyable film.

 

[IanCorrigan]

**This question requires a long answer as it deals first with Christ and his earthly mission, and secondly, with how he chose to transmit his teachings throughout history after his Ascension into Heaven. **

I’ll admit it was mainly a rhetorical question, and that I meant that Neopaganism doesn’t see any reason to grant more authority to an institutional leader or central voice than to any dedicated practitioner in her home.

**All authority was given to the office of the Papacy by Christ. **

In ancient Paganism ‘authority’ was mainly, again, about practices and not beliefs. Those institutions that were vested with authority (such as the Roman senate, or perhaps the Gaulish council of Druids) were more about prescribing proper practice than proper belief - it didn’t occur to them to try to legislate the opinions of their members, just their actions. In the same way modern Pagans, when we receive formal training, aren’t catechised with official opinions so much as trained in how to work the rituals and practices. Working the practices reveals the nature of the divine, not vice versa.

If it is not a belief system, what is the purpose of the practices? Surely, they involve faith and worship in some form of deity? If they do involve some form of worship, were do pagans get knowledge of the various deities or gods?

The purpose of the practices is to bring blessing and illumination into the lives and spirits of the worshippers, to maintain both the order and wholeness of the cosmos and the relationship between the spiritual world and the material world. Note that these goals contain a number of underlying assumptions, such as that the cosmos has a fit order and that humans can participate in maintaining it. However these ideas are not elements of ‘faith’ as much as they are mythic assumptions that underlie the practices. Again, we are not asked to declare our faith in anything at all, but rather to dilligently pursue the practices that bring the results we desire.

Most ‘faith’ in Paganism is the faith of trust - we trust the Gods to reward worship with blessing in the same way that we trust the sun to rise and the car to start when we turn the key - it usually happens, so we have trust (faith) that it will happen.

Neopaganism is focused on the Deities (and lesser spirits) and we have their forms and stories from tradition, though the traditions often vary as to the details and we don’t expect them to be universal - Gods vary from place to place and person to person just as nature does. Some Pagans are pantheistic, some duotheistic, some polytheistic but even inside those philosophical positions Pagans tend to worship the divine in the person of the mythic figures called “the Gods”. Again, we do not require ourselves to agree on what “the Gods” ‘really’ might be, only to agree on how they should be addressed, and that only for a specific ritual.

I know this is all complex for those working from a monotheist and doctrinally centralized system. If Catholicism is like a farm, with the crops in a row and a gardener who tends them, Paganism is like a forest, where everything grows as it will, and no one is in charge.
Ian

 

[IanCorrigan]

Just out of curiosity, have you seen the film The Wicker Man? Without the human sacrifice and the nudity, is this an accurate portrayal of paganism? However, I am sure that paganism was dramatised to an extent in order to create a more enjoyable film.

A charming film that captures some of the spirit of Neopaganism, and even some of the practices. While we do reject living sacrifice, many sects don’t so much reject nudity - naked fire leaping really happens on occasion, though not at our usual public rites. The sense of music and delight in nature’s wonder is spot on, though.
None of that applies to the nasty little Nick Cage remake, of course…

 

[Lion_of_Narnia]

A charming film that captures some of the spirit of Neopaganism, and even some of the practices. While we do reject living sacrifice, many sects don’t so much reject nudity - naked fire leaping really happens on occasion, though not at our usual public rites. The sense of music and delight in nature’s wonder is spot on, though.
None of that applies to the nasty little Nick Cage remake, of course…

Have to agree, the Cage remake was a travesty of the Christopher Lee original.

Course, when neopagans discuss that film, they really do seem to miss the final point of the film–that in “recreating” paganism, the residents of Summerisle are recreating history–the sacrifice of the Police Corporal (Edward Woodward) IS a martyrdom–and will have consequences, sooner or later…

 

[cyberwolf001]

Course, when neopagans discuss that film, they really do seem to miss the final point of the film–that in “recreating” paganism, the residents of Summerisle are recreating history–the sacrifice of the Police Corporal (Edward Woodward) IS a martyrdom–and will have consequences, sooner or later…

So are you saying restoring paganism will lead to human sacrifice which will in turn have negative consequences?

 

[Lion_of_Narnia]

So are you saying restoring paganism will lead to human sacrifice which will in turn have negative consequences?

Yes and then some.

Actually, Woodward, the corporal, yells it out to Lord Summerisle (Lee)–once started, the pagans will not stop–the next bad harvest it will be Summerisle himself–and then maybe little girls, until eventually the outside world WILL intrude.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

Halloween is cool! In all forms, whether it’d be Paganism or kids dressing up (so as they’re safe). Besides, technically, it’s an excellent Catholic holiday I celebrate called “All Saints Day”. ^^

Ironically Yours, Blade and Blood