Tithe

[Horton]

I wholeheartedly agree.

My current Catholic parish requests we give 5% to our Church and be charitable in the world and give 5% to other causes like helping the poor. I like this approach much better. No guilt trips and long winded speeches about how you are living under a curse because you don’t give 10%.

Anyway, there is no New Testament mandate for 10% and these pastors who push this are well aware of this.

At my current parish I don’t remember a time when our priest has spoken about our general offering or the need for a specific amount. I like the 5% / 5% rule of thumb.

 

[NeuroTypical]

I know several active LDS who have talked about their settlement meeting with the Bishop to determine if they had indeed paid their 10% that year and the need to provide a tax return. I also know several former LDS who have explained that process in great detail.

Such things are beyond my experience. Again, I’ve been a tithepayer for 20+ years, in five different areas in Utah and Colorado, dealing with ten or so different Bishops. You may want to go re-ask these people about needing tax forms.

So if you’ve never had to prove you’re current on your tithe, how do you get a temple recommend?

I’ve also had an active temple recommend for 20+ years. Tithing settlement involves the bishop asking if I’m a full tithe payer, and I’ve honestly answered ‘yes’ for 20 years. The Temple Recommend interview asks me if I’m a full tithe payer, and I’ve honestly answered ‘yes’ for 20 years. Never a single mention of a tax statement, or a request for proof or paycheck stubs. Never, ever.

 

[Marie5890]

I believe the key word in the OP question is “required”. The LDS must meet with their bishops once a year with their tax documents to ensure they have paid the 10%. To have the temple recommend an LDS member must be current in their 10% tithe.

I never had to prove I was tithing 10%, so I am not sure where you are getting your information from.

It was all the honor system. You go and meet with the bishop. He shows you the total amount of your donations, and asks if that is correct. Then he asks if it’s a full tithe.

But I NEVER had to prove it with tax forums

 

[Marie5890]

Horton, I don’t know where you got your information, but you’ve been sadly, woefully misinformed. I’ve been paying tithing since 1996, and I’ve never shown a bishop a tax document, or been asked for one. I’ve lived in five different areas in two states in that time, and met with probably ten or more bishops.

I’ve heard the notion that I “must” meet every year several times from critics of my faith. I’ve never been told I “must” meet by any church member or church leader.

The ‘meet with their bishops once a year’ thing is called Tithing Settlement, and yes, it happens. The bishop asks a question: “Are you a full tithe payer?” You answer yes, no, or part-tithe payer. He checks a little box. When folks ask what constitutes a full tithing, the bishop brings out the scriptures, and doesn’t advocate for gross or net. He doesn’t ask for proof.

Yes, to have an active temple recommend, and LDS member must be current on tithing. That part is true.

The OP’s question: “Which religions require 10% giving or some specific minimum?” Nobody will kick you out of my church for not paying tithing. It’s heavily recommended, we teach about it, we ask about it, you can’t enter the temple without it, but no, it’s not required to be a member.

And this was my experience in the 80’s and 90’s.

I never had to prove it. Ever. It was all on the honor system.

 

[Marie5890]

I know several active LDS who have talked about their settlement meeting with the Bishop to determine if they had indeed paid their 10% that year and the need to provide a tax return. I also know several former LDS who have explained that process in great detail.

So if you’ve never had to prove you’re current on your tithe, how do you get a temple recommend?

Then these people are experience something out of the norm when it comes to tithing settlement.

And tithing settlement is something that happens during Nov. and Dec. Not during tax season

With the temple recommend thing, again, it’s all on the honor system. When you go for a temple recommend interview, you get asked a series of questions. And you answer then yes or no. Again all on the honor system. You don’t have to prove anything.

A person can lie thru their teeth, be unworthy, and get a recommend.

No proof of worthiness is necessary.

There is a reason why the lockers in the temple changing rooms have locks on them.

 

[NeuroTypical]

A person can lie thru their teeth, be unworthy, and get a recommend.

Yep. It’s considered a time when a member can give an account of their doings to the Lord, with His earthly representative the bishop in attendance. The consequences for lying will come from God, not the bishop.

I don’t want to derail the thread, but if I understand correctly, I notice a similar thing hotly contested in some U.S. Catholic circles on the topic on who should or shouldn’t receive communion if they x, y, or z.

 

[Horton]

Then these people are experience something out of the norm when it comes to tithing settlement.

And tithing settlement is something that happens during Nov. and Dec. Not during tax season

With the temple recommend thing, again, it’s all on the honor system. When you go for a temple recommend interview, you get asked a series of questions. And you answer then yes or no. Again all on the honor system. You don’t have to prove anything.

A person can lie thru their teeth, be unworthy, and get a recommend.

No proof of worthiness is necessary.

There is a reason why the lockers in the temple changing rooms have locks on them.

Then what is the point? Giving to our church should be a free will offering, given because we love our faith and our God.

The idea that a person isn’t able to get into a place they consider sacred because they haven’t paid their 10% just seems wrong to me. Last year I was able to go to some of the most sacred places in Italy and no one asked me what religion I was or told me I couldn’t enter without paying. No one asked me if I gave 10% to my parish or other charities.

A person can lie thru their teeth, be unworthy, and get a recommend.

And the honest person is denied because they are honest.

 

[Horton]

Yep. It’s considered a time when a member can give an account of their doings to the Lord, with His earthly representative the bishop in attendance. The consequences for lying will come from God, not the bishop.

I don’t want to derail the thread, but if I understand correctly, I notice a similar thing hotly contested in some U.S. Catholic circles on the topic on who should or shouldn’t receive communion if they x, y, or z.

There may be some question but the very big difference is it will always be up to the individual and not a layman fulfilling his five year tour of duty as bishop. There are clear rules for who can and who cannot receive the Eucharist. Those who do so while not in a state of grace, whether intentional or out of ignorance, have to answer to God alone.

 

[Marie5890]

There may be some question but the very big difference is it will always be up to the individual and not a layman fulfilling his five year tour of duty as bishop. There are clear rules for who can and who cannot receive the Eucharist. Those who do so while not in a state of grace, whether intentional or out of ignorance, have to answer to God alone.

I do understand the parallel that NT is trying to make

For Mormons, the pinnacle of sacredness is going to the temple and doing so worthily,

For Catholics, its partaking of the Eucharist, worthily

A Mormon can enter the temple unworthily. A TR is good for a year I believe or is it 2? I don’t remember. Even if they get their TR worthily, they then can go on, and say commit adultery, and since they hold a TR, go to the temple.

A Mormon does not go to their bishop each and every time they want to enter the temple. The recommends have expiration dates on them

For Catholics, it’s possible to partake of the Eurcharist and do so in a state of mortal sin.

There are clear rules for those who enter the LDS temples. They know what is considered worthy to enter and what is not considered worthy

 

[Marie5890]

Then what is the point? Giving to our church should be a free will offering, given because we love our faith and our God.

The idea that a person isn’t able to get into a place they consider sacred because they haven’t paid their 10% just seems wrong to me. Last year I was able to go to some of the most sacred places in Italy and no one asked me what religion I was or told me I couldn’t enter without paying. No one asked me if I gave 10% to my parish or other charities.

And the honest person is denied because they are honest.

You are thinking this thru the lens of a Catholic, which is understandable, because you are Catholic.

Mormons believe in obedience to God just like Catholics do. They believe that tithing is a commandment that they need to be obedient to.

Like I said in my other reply, going to the temple holds the level of sacredness that our partaking of the Eucharist does.

People unfamiliar with Mormonism tend to equate that their partaking of the sacrament on Sundays is similar to our partaking of the Eucharist in terms of sacredness . It’s not.

Going to the temple is a much better equivalent, when it comes to sacredness, to our partaking of the Eucharist.

 

[Marie5890]

There may be some question but the very big difference is it will always be up to the individual and not a layman fulfilling his five year tour of duty as bishop. There are clear rules for who can and who cannot receive the Eucharist. Those who do so while not in a state of grace, whether intentional or out of ignorance, have to answer to God alone.

Actually it’s not all that different. Temple recommends are good for a year (maybe 2? I forget)

 

[Nelka]

I believe the key word in the OP question is “required”. The LDS must meet with their bishops once a year with their tax documents to ensure they have paid the 10%. To have the temple recommend an LDS member must be current in their 10% tithe.

Scary.

 

[Marie5890]

Scary.

However, Horton is wrong in her understanding of this.

Mormon’s do not have to prove that they are tithing 10% of their income.
They just declare it, and the bishop takes them at their word that they are being honest in their declaration.

 

[Mammoths]

I am a little surprised this question turned into a Mormon vs catholic debate. I do think there is a fare comparison to be made in that Catholics are required to attend confession before receiving the Eucharist if they have committed a grave or deadly sin. The underlying principle they hold in common here is the participation of a church authority in accountable holiness. Clearly there is a difference in practice and theology. I don’t deny that, but it seems like one could accept that in each there is a requirement to give account to the church for keeping the faith. That is biblical actually and a lost art in many denominations. Still, scripture indicates that a tithe should be given generously, enthusiastically, without regard to recognition or percentage. So at least on the notion of aiming for 10 percent the Mormon church seems to be in error. I asked this question as if about a minimum mandate. If we were all to be joyful givers though, what is the MOST we should could or would give. I am reminded of the rich young ruler and the eye of the needle. It’s not that it’s hard for a camel to go through the eye of a needle. It’s impossible. Thus, the rich man had to become poor. One could say that if this worlds goods don’t count as treasure in the heart then you would be poor. But Jesus proves the point by requiring the disciple to leave all as the minimum requirement. So the rich man went away sorrowful. A good question to ask is whether you will grieve the loss of earthly treasure or gladly give what you cannot keep to gain what cannot be taken.

 

[Marie5890]

I asked this question as if about a minimum mandate. If we were all to be joyful givers though, what is the MOST we should could or would give. I am reminded of the rich young ruler and the eye of the needle. It’s not that it’s hard for a camel to go through the eye of a needle. It’s impossible. Thus, the rich man had to become poor. One could say that if this worlds goods don’t count as treasure in the heart then you would be poor. But Jesus proves the point by requiring the disciple to leave all as the minimum requirement. So the rich man went away sorrowful. A good question to ask is whether you will grieve the loss of earthly treasure or gladly give what you cannot keep to gain what cannot be taken.

Great insight. Thanks, Mammoths. I’ve been thinking about what to meditate on this coming Lent, and between reading a book on Albert the Great (have come to really appreciate this very under-appreciated saint/monk) and what you wrote above, I find myself discerning a direction I want to take.

Thanks again.

(AFA the thread taking a turn towards Mormonism vs Catholicism, I knew, in charity towards those of the LDS faith, that when misunderstandings of their ways was posted, it needed to be corrected. It was the just thing to do)

 

[Mammoths]

However, Horton is wrong in her understanding of this.

Mormon’s do not have to prove that they are tithing 10% of their income.
They just declare it, and the bishop takes them at their word that they are being honest in their declaration.

Similarly Catholics make their own list before meeting the priest for confession. But, if anyone lies about their sin to an authority, I am sure the lesson of Ananias and Saphire would advise that God takes it personally.

 

[Horton]

However, Horton is wrong in her understanding of this.

Mormon’s do not have to prove that they are tithing 10% of their income.
They just declare it, and the bishop takes them at their word that they are being honest in their declaration.

My understanding comes from LDS, current or former, who have talked about this. Maybe it just happens in the geographical area I lived in.

 

[Marie5890]

My understanding comes from LDS, current or former, who have talked about this. Maybe it just happens in the geographical area I lived in.

That could be. Sometimes LDS bishops make up their own policies

 

[jimkhong]

Every Baha’i of good standing reviews their expenses during the year… after deducting the expenses we have a spiritual obligation to contribute 19% or Huquq and send the amount to certain designate persons who then receipt the amount and forward the proceeds to those administering the Cause in various parts of the world where it is most needed.

Why 19%? Special number?

 

[jimkhong]

However, Horton is wrong in her understanding of this.

Mormon’s do not have to prove that they are tithing 10% of their income.
They just declare it, and the bishop takes them at their word that they are being honest in their declaration.

Wouldn’t that still be a requirement? Just that it is not verified that’s all. Just because we are not audited by the IRS, who takes our signed tax returns as honestly compiled, doesn’t mean that it is not a requirement.

The question should be what happens if the bishop has reason to doubt someone’s honesty. Would the Temple then investigate to the extent possible (bearing in mind they would not have the legal means to performa full audit)? Would any action be taken?

If the answer is ‘yes’, then it is a requirement.