Tithing While Catholic

[DebCWil]

Tithe does mean 10%. The O.T. says to bring the first fruits. The first time the idea of tithing is mentioned is in Genesis with the story of Melchizedek. There are admonishments throughout Scripture regarding the lack of tithes brought to the temple, just as there are admonishments about the land not being allowed to rest while the people grow rich. The temple and God are neglected.
Our Lord says, where your heart is, so is your treasure. The rich man has trouble giving up his worldly treasures. It is the story that moved St. Francis and others to give up all they had to follow Christ.
The Catholic Church does not focus on tithing as much as other denominations. There is the annual general appeal, as well as calls throughout the year for special needs. Recently there have been special collections to meet the needs of those affected by the hurricanes, as an example. There may be calls for volunteers to decorate and beautify the parish for Easter and Christmas. Parishioners landscape the grounds.

Dave Ramsey and others who deal with budgeting include tithing as part of the family budget. The first fruits, before personal savings. I keep a special box for this purpose. In the past it was a highly decorative box. It is a place to keep my Sunday envelopes as well as any solicitations I may receive in the mail. I know how much I am giving on Sundays, the amount that will go into the Sunday envelopes.
I can decide later how much to donate to other charities, to send to the Salesians, Covenant House, or other worthy causes. These all come under the tithe. This is where I can be selective as to how my money is allocated. How can I best help God’s people? As stated earlier, when my parish priest suggested giving my hourly wage (not currently working), it didn’t take me long to calculate that hourly wage approximated 5% of my income.
I have fresh produce delivered to my apartment weekly. The company that delivers also offers a Community Box that is not delivered. In the wake of Harvey, I added a Community Box to my order for those affected by Harvey. The cost of the Community Box came from my tithe.
Were I younger and stronger, I might have done what I could to volunteer my services. Not everything we do in terms of giving needs to be Church related.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Really, people do that? We all pass our envelopes down and make the person at the end put them in. I don’t really watch who puts anything in or not. Sometimes spouses go separately, maybe the other one gave already.

My only concern is my own envelope.

I think it’s the part of the US that I live in. In another thread, we were discussing handicapped children in Mass and it seems that judgment is much more prevalent based on where you are in the US, not just by parish.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Well, I’ve never actually heard a stewardship or tithing talk which admonished us to give till it hurts

I actually have; it was supposed to be tongue-in-cheek, but the context was that one’s ability to give.

But giving a percent of income means that the degree of hurt is proportional to the income. Eight percent of a million dollar annual income might seem hard to the person giving, but he’ll still have plenty of income left. Eight percent of a $20,000 income is still going to be painful even though the dollar amount is less. Of course, if a person is literally living hand to mouth on practically zero income, I doubt that a tithe would even be expected.

But you talked about something mandatory so the tithe is not at what point?

The poor will always be with you, as will the rich. Tithing is not an income redistribution plan.

Does it actually work that way in some churches? I wonder if some upstart churches, who try to live according to Acts, have ever tried something like that.

 

[pianistclare]

Often, it’s the poorer folks who give the most, or make a point or regularly give something.
Rich people also have bigger bills…sometimes due to their lifestyles. People who live frugally tend to give more. At least around here. See my above stats.

 

[JimG]

It’s possible, although I doubt that any parish would have a written policy stating as much. Those who can give more should give more. They need not just stick to a 10% tithe; a truly wealthy person with a huge income could give 50% or more. If they did, though, they might want to do so anonymously. It would not be a good idea to give other parishioners the idea that they need not give anything because the parish had a big benefactor.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

If someone has the capability to give 50% shouldn’t they consider giving to worthy charities? Or maybe that’s what we are already talking about. Full disclosure, I use 10% (yes, a tithe) as a guideline. But I don’t give it all to my parish, I give to a few charities that are important to me. But since I have sacrificial giving as my model I also give time and talent in addition to treasure.

 

[DignumEtJustum]

I’m not going to go find it for you but yes TITHING is certainly mentioned in the documents of Trent and has been a practice in the Church for a long time. It is still required and enforced in places like Germany but for us should be at least something to consider. I’m not saying I currently do it myself but I believe it to be the right thing to do.

 

[JimG]

Yes, that’s a good model. Around here the stewardship talks emphasize stewardship of time, talent, and treasure. I’ve used the 8% figure as a basis for parish giving, but the idea is that the additional 2% would go to other charities.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Okay. I hoped that since you knew that you could zero in on that part of the document more easily than I. NBD

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

My husband and I take from our income what we owe on loans in figuring out what to give. While it is part of our income, it is something that we have borrowed and owe to another. Jesus was very clear about paying eartly debts justly, to myself (and my husband) even more clear about that than He was about figuring out the percentage owed to the church. Our loan, for our home, necessary and incredibly modest (atleast where we live).

To us, that formula makes sense.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I don’t mind giving either to the parish, to other parishes I visit, or charities, but I feel a bit annoyed when other people are deciding what I “should” give.

If it’s presented as “The Church building needs a new parking lot this year and there’s a leak in the roof and we need $50,000 to cover all that, so we are asking everyone to consider increasing their donation” or even “consider just giving 10 dollars more a week” etc. then I very well might give more than the 10 extra dollars per week.

But anything like “you’re expected to give X percent” with very little insight as to where it will go is offputting. And if it’s going to go to something that I’m lukewarm about, I’d rather give it to a charity that I’m enthusiastic about.

In addition to parish giving, I find the Missio website a nice place to find charitable causes and donate in an easy, Gofundme sort of way. Or just google “Best Catholic charities” and see what comes up. Last week I found a home for homeless, pregnant moms in my area that I didn’t even know was there, and was happy to donate to them.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

I don’t mind giving either to the parish, to other parishes I visit, or charities, but I feel a bit annoyed when other people are deciding what I “should” give.

If it’s presented as “The Church building needs a new parking lot this year and there’s a leak in the roof and we need $50,000 to cover all that, so we are asking everyone to consider increasing their donation” or even “consider just giving 10 dollars more a week” etc. then I very well might give more than the 10 extra dollars per week.

But anything like “you’re expected to give X percent” with very little insight as to where it will go is offputting. And if it’s going to go to something that I’m lukewarm about, I’d rather give it to a charity that I’m enthusiastic about.

In addition to parish giving, I find the Missio website a nice place to find charitable causes and donate in an easy, Gofundme sort of way. Or just google “Best Catholic charities” and see what comes up. Last week I found a home for homeless, pregnant moms in my area that I didn’t even know was there, and was happy to donate to them.

The Daughters of St. Paul are collecting money to run their presses and replenish books lost by schools and churches in Hurricane Harvey. I’m wondering if there is an appropriate place to share that on this forum. In fact, it’d be nice to have a vetted Catholic charity link thread.

 

[JimG]

Our parish, and I guess most parishes, have a finance committee responsible for preparing for and overseeing the annual budget. Income and expenses and surplus or (usually) deficit, is published once a month. So people can see what money is coming into the parish and where the money is going. In our case, most of the money is going to the parish school. That’s one purpose of the tithing program—to support the parish school without tuition.

Any parish is a financial entity, and a big parish can have receipts and disbursements in the millions of dollars. That doesn’t make the parish rich. Few parishes run a surplus. And capital improvement budgets ought to be continuous and not just put in place when the roof spring a leak or the rectory is falling down.

The point of a tithing plan is so that a parish can plan its income and expenses just as any family or business would. No family could operate without some idea of what income to expect.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

I don’t think tithing exactly creates an good expectation of budget, but I do think electronic giving does and it’s especally important during vacation season or over holidays when parishoners are likely to travel.

 

[JimG]

I’m thinking that it’s mainly the yearly tithing pledge cards that allow the parish to prepare a budget for the coming year. But that’s hardly foolproof. Some people, including me, forget to send them in but continue to contribute the same amount anyway. Some people don’t complete them because they object to the whole thing on principle, but still contribute. And others never contribute except sporadically. That’s why I’d never want to be on the Finance Committee.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

That’s one purpose of the tithing program—to support the parish school without tuition.

While this is undoubtedly a nice benefit for families with kids in your parish, I’m a little uncomfortable with the idea of people who don’t have children attending a school having to cover tuition for those that do. I also think a good education tends to be more valued when it isn’t just being handed out for free, except maybe in cases of academic scholarship for gifted kids and some form of assistance for families with a legitimate financial hardship. When I attended a parish school back in the day, my parents dutifully paid my tuition for years, though it was a big bite out of their budget and they had to make some sacrifices to cover it. Families who did not have the money to cover the costs, for instance because they had several children of school age, were given some accommodation by the parish like a payment plan or the parents doing some maintenance or office work.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

I’m thinking that it’s mainly the yearly tithing pledge cards that allow the parish to prepare a budget for the coming year. But that’s hardly foolproof. Some people, including me, forget to send them in but continue to contribute the same amount anyway. Some people don’t complete them because they object to the whole thing on principle, but still contribute. And others never contribute except sporadically. That’s why I’d never want to be on the Finance Committee.

Oh…I haven’t seen those done since I was a child.

 

[JimG]

While this is undoubtedly a nice benefit for families with kids in your parish, I’m a little uncomfortable with the idea of people who don’t have children attending a school having to cover tuition for those that do. I also think a good education tends to be more valued when it isn’t just being handed out for free

My parents put five children through parochial school, and we were pretty poor, although none of us thought so at the time. But the parish school was staffed by religious sisters who worked for essentially no salary. There was no administrative staff. One of the teaching sisters doubled as principal.

So the school was not expensive to run, and the tuition was not much. Things have changed a lot since then. (The children, incidentally, received church envelopes to make donations to the parish. A dime was a good donation.)

I understand that one values what one pays for. Still, I believe that a parish school ought to be the responsibility of the whole parish, not just the parents who happen to have children attending at any given time. Educated Catholics are of benefit to the whole Church, not just their parents.

But even aside from that, there is nothing stopping a parishioner with no kids in school from simply not tithing. A family with kids is more likely to tithe in order to be able to enroll the kids, but nobody is going to be kicked out of the parish for not tithing.

 

[SanRafael1102]

Here’s what I found, just because somebody mentioned it!

"…the holy Synod enjoins on all, of whatsoever rank and condition they be, to whom it belongs to pay tithes, that they henceforth pay in full the tithes, to which they are bound in law, to the cathedral church, or to whatsoever other churches, or persons, they are lawfully due. And they who either withhold them, or hinder them (from being paid), shall be excommunicated ; nor be absolved from this crime, until after full restitution has been made. It further exhorts all and each, that, of their Christian charity, and the duty which they owe to their own pastors, they grudge not, out of the good things that are given them by God, to assist bountifully those bishops and parish priests who preside over the poorer churches; to the praise of God, and to maintain the dignity of their own pastors who watch for them. -Council of Trent Session 25. Decree on Reformation, Chapter XII

 

[SanRafael1102]

It should be noted that Trent was in the 16th Century.

Nowadays,

Can. 6.1. When this Code takes force, the following are abrogated:

1. the Code of Canon Law promulgated in 1917;
2. other universal or particular laws contrary to the prescripts of this Code unless other provision is expressly made for particular laws;
3. any universal or particular penal laws whatsoever issued by the Apostolic See unless they are contained in this Code;
4. other universal disciplinary laws regarding matter which this Code completely reorders.

So, If anything mentioned at Trent is in conflict with the current canon laws, it’s abrogated (repealed).

Can. 222.1. The Christian faithful are obliged to assist with the needs of the Church so that the Church has what is necessary for divine worship, for the works of the apostolate and of charity, and for the decent support of ministers.

And…

Can. 223.1. In exercising their rights, the Christian faithful, both as individuals and gathered together in associations, must take into account the common good of the Church, the rights of others, and their own duties toward others.

Later canons mention that the needs of pastors should be provided by the parish community, but besides that, the current Code of Canon Law does not give any indication that a certain amount of money (or any money at all!) is required.