tithing

[deb1]

Hello,

I come from a Fundamentalist background that stressed giving ten percent of one’s income to the church. I was just curious, are Catholics encouraged to do this?

 

[puzzleannie]

it is one of the seven precepts or laws of the Church that Catholics support their local parish, diocese and the universal Church in its ministries, services and evangelizing mission. Pastors preach on stewardship of time, talent and treasure, usually in October, when Catholics are asked to formally commit to supporting the Church with their gifts in those three categories. This year stewardship of all God’s gifts is the theme that is supposed to be stressed in catechesis of adults and children. some parishes and dioceses have introduced formal tithing programs, or pledges of some type, but most leave it to the individual conscience. Tithing used to be mandatory in Europe but led to abuses when civil authorities tried to control the tithes, how they were spent, and appointments to religious offices and pastoral assignments.

 

[scylla]

Correct me if I am wrong but this is what I think…
The Cathecism states this about giving to the Church.

The fifth precept (“You shall help to provide for the needs of the Church”) means that the faithful are obliged to assist with the material needs of the Church, each according to his own ability.
CCC 2043

There really is not much taught about tithing by the Catholic Church. There were abuses by bishops, clergy and even princes(in the Churches name), in the past which made the Church crack down, and now the Church teaches what is posted in the Cathecism above.

When I was growing up Catholic before I left the Church, I never remember in my 12 or so years of sermons that tithing was ever taught, nor have I heard in the last 7 months or so of returning to the Church.
It is not good to teach this from a financial point of view, but it is
more true to the gospel than any other teaching I have seen.

Catholics on average give less to their Church than any other Christian religion, because the sermons do not emphasize this.
barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdate&BarnaUpdateID=52
This is pulled off the Barna Group an organization created to make churches more successful.

In Calvary Chapel they preached tithing often, as a Christian responsiblility. In other evangelical churches out there I am not sure of the teaching, but I do see it a lot also with the televangelists preaching.

Here is a good story pulled off the internet,

A one-dollar bill and a twenty-dollar bill were talking. The twenty-dollar bill was telling the one-dollar bill what fantastic times he always has; he goes to the best restaurants, to the theater, the opera, etc. The one-dollar bill said, “How wonderful and interesting your life is. All I ever get to do is go to church!” Many of us would have to agree how true that story is!

 

[Della]

Catholics are urged to be good stewards of all that God has given to them, be it our time, talent, or money. Tithing is a fine thing, but we don’t have to give any particular part of our income.

Some people wish to give a good deal and others give what they feel they can and still maintain their families, etc. But, we are always urged to be generous in every aspect of our lives for we are taught that we do not own anything but have been given everything we have and are by God.

 

[maryj]

I have a friend who’s husband has recently left the Catholic church and gone to a non-denominational. she has two small children and does not work outside of the house. Her husband came up the stairs from his office the other day and remarked to her that he doesn’t know how she thinks she can spend 1000 dollars more a month than he makes. she told me he “tithes” to their church 10 percent every payday, it is the first bill paid and that she can guarantee me it is around 600-800 dollars a month. My reply was Is he nuts!!! Is tithing a word from the old Testament. If you have ten cows bring one to the place of worship or something like that. I think it is absolutely unnecassary to put your family in peril to “tithe” yourself into the poor house. I’m pretty sure the Lord would not want that. Any comments or ways to help her change his mind about this.

 

[Steven_Merten]

Hello deb1,

I have heard homilies suggesting that Catholics should give 5% of total income through their diosoceas and 5% through other charities Catholic or non-Catholic.

I have heard that Catholics, on average, pay less than 1% of their income to God to keep the poor from dying. A few years back the Pope was demanding that the World Bank forgive third world debt. Never once did I hear him demand that Catholics tithe to God to pay off third world debt and keep the poor from dying. Who goes to heaven for caring for the poor, the World Bank or Catholics?

If sixty million American Catholics alone tithed this would be hundreds of billions of dollars for a Catholic world health care program and food for the poor. If all developed nation’s Catholics, Protestants and Jews tithed, I calculate gross charity funds would be pushing trillions of dollars. I only see tens of millions of dollars talked about when charities talk numbers.

The question becomes why are Church leaders condemning world tax payers and world organizations for not caring for the poor when Christ’s Church does so little? Jesus teaches that Christian’s eternal life or death will ballance greatly on how they cared for the least of His brothers. Is 1% from Christ’s Church to keep the poor from dying good enough in the Popes eyes? Beyond 1% there is nothing more billions of Christians can do (other than pound Caesar) and we just have to let the poor die? American tax payers already spend hundreds of billions, even trillions on foreign aid and national welfare programs. How about the Church step up to the plate and deliver as commanded by Jesus.

I say let us get the Pope to convert and put Christians, rather than world tax payers, in the hot seat for letting the poor die. Let the Pope shepard his own flock to obey Jesus command to Christians to feed the poor.

NAB MAT 25:31 When the Son of Man comes in his glory, escorted by all the angels of heaven, he will sit upon his royal throne, and all the nations will be assembled before him. Then he will separate them into two groups, as a shepherd separates sheep from goats. The sheep he will place on his righthand, the goats on on his left. The king will say to those on his right: 'Come. You have my Fathers blessing! In herit the kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink. I was a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me. I was ill and you comforted me, in prison and you came to visit me.’ then the usut will ask him: 'Lord, when did we see you hugry and feed you or see you thirsty and give you drink? When did we welcome you away from home or clothe you in your nakedness?" When did we visit you when you were ill or in prison?" The king will answer them: ‘I assure you, as often as you did it for on of my least brothers, you did it for me.’

Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’ Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ He will answer them, 'Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

Peace in Christ,

Steven Merten

www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com

 

[deb1]

Thank you for the answers. I didn’t know if I was still thinking like a Protestant because there doesn’t seem to be as much of an emphasis on tithing in the Catholic websites as there is on the Protestant ones.

 

[scylla]

I thought I would chime in again, I looked again and there is not anything about tithing taught by the Catholic Church only by some individuals. I might be wrong against this, but this looks like the current practice of the Church.

Reading different websites, many say that this is because tithing should be about pigs, goats, stuff like that. Since we are not Jewish, we shouldn’t be concerned about tithing only about giving what you can.
Many other Churches use tithing to make money and use sermons that say things like, “would you rob the Lord?” This makes people feel like it is a mandatory thing to give 10% which I personally think is horrible.

The Catholic Church might not make much money because of it’s lack of assertiveness in preaching about money, but I have always seen the Church always preaching about loving your neighbor, (Jesus’s commandment). This might not lead to large collection returns, but I feel is more true to the Gospel.

 

[gardenswithkids]

The back of our church envelopes at one parish had a quote from Malachi. It used a different translation but I think it was Malachi 3:10 and basically said:
“Bring the full tithe into the storehouse so that there may be food in my house. Test me in this way, says the Lord. See if I won’t open the windows of heaven for you and flood you with blessings.”

Even if it is “Old Testament” to tithe, God still offers us the challenge to test Him and promises to open the flood gates of heaven. Those who tithe can testify to His faithfulness to that promise.

In the New Testament the quantity that Jesus tells the rich man to give is 100%. That’s a far cry from 1%.

Steve made an excellent point about taxes versus tithing. I agree that we’d have a lot less need for government charity if Church member stepped up their giving!

 

[deb1]

scylla:

IMany other Churches use tithing to make money and use sermons that say things like, “would you rob the Lord?” This makes people feel like it is a mandatory thing to give 10% which I personally think is horrible.

The Catholic Church might not make much money because of it’s lack of assertiveness in preaching about money, but I have always seen the Church always preaching about loving your neighbor, (Jesus’s commandment). This might not lead to large collection returns, but I feel is more true to the Gospel.

SOmething very similar was said in the Baptist Church that I attend. Once you became a member,there was some pressure to begin tithing. No one came to my house, of course, demanding money, but there seemed to be an attitude that a good Christian would give 10% of his income. In fact, we were told that this 10% should come out ***before ***bills and other necisities.(sp?) God, would provide for our needs if we just trusted him. Yet, when we did the budget, we discovered that we wouldn’t have enough for food-so, we didn’t tithe but there was a tremendous amount of guilt over this.

 

[deb1]

Steven Merten:

Hello deb1,

I have heard homilies suggesting that Catholics should give 5% of total income through their diosoceas and 5% through other charities Catholic or non-Catholic.

I really like this idea. I was always taught that the ten percent had to go directly to the church, but I like the idea of giving half to charities.

 

[Benedictus]

Christians are under no obligation to tithe. The Church does not command or even recommend giving 10% of one’s income, nor is there anything in the New Testament to support a requirement.

The Old Testament commanded tithing, but one must remember how different the situation was back then. The economic system was completely different and barely resembled anything like a modern economy. Taxes as we know them didn’t exist. In fact, the tithe, to some extent, fulfilled a role similar to modern taxes.

10% may be a good rule of thumb for some people, but people ought not feel guilty if they don’t give that much.

 

[Steven_Merten]

In Jesus teaching on Lazarus and the rich man, the rich man is burning in hell because he did not feed and care for Lazarus. The rich man did not put a spear through Lazarus’s heart or liver to murder him but the rich man pays the penaly of eternal death for allowing Lazarus to die by ignoring his needs.

If the Church, one billion Catholics, gave nothing to the poor, the Church would be just as guilty of murder as the rich man in Jesus Lazarus story.

The question becomes, at what level of sacrificial giving are we Catholics not as guilty of murder as the rich man in the Lazarus story? At what level of giving are we loving Jesus by caring for the least of His brothers? 1%, 3%, 5%, 7%, 10%, 13% 15%? Ten percent seems to be good, Old Testament supported, point for sacrificial giving.

Can a Catholic buy a fancy sports car, luxurious house, expensive vacation, if he is not first paying 10% to God to care for the poor? It would have been ok for an Old Testament person to spend beyond his basic needs had he first tithed to God. I think that a tithe is also a good level for Catholics to give to God before they spend money on themselves beyond their basic needs.

LUK 16:19 The Rich Man and Lazarus

“There was a rich man who dressed in purple garments and fine linen and dined sumptuously each day. And lying at his door was a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who would gladly have eaten his fill of the scraps that fell from the rich man’s table. Dogs even used to come and lick his sores. When the poor man died, he was carried away by angels to the bosom of Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried, and from the netherworld, where he was in torment, he raised his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. And he cried out, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me. Send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am suffering torment in these flames.’ Abraham replied, ‘My child, remember that you received what was good during your lifetime while Lazarus likewise received what was bad; but now he is comforted here,whereas you are tormented. Moreover, between us and you a great chasm is established to prevent anyone from crossing who might wish to go from our side to yours or from your side to ours.’ He said, ‘Then I beg you, father, send him to my father’s house, for I have five brothers, so that he may warn them, lest they too come to this place of torment.’ But Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the prophets. Let them listen to them.’ He said, ‘Oh no, father Abraham, but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ Then Abraham said, ‘If they will not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone should rise from the dead.’”

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com

 

[gardenswithkids]

Benedictus:

Christians are under no obligation to tithe. The Church does not command or even recommend giving 10% of one’s income, nor is there anything in the New Testament to support a requirement.

The Old Testament commanded tithing, but one must remember how different the situation was back then. The economic system was completely different and barely resembled anything like a modern economy. Taxes as we know them didn’t exist. In fact, the tithe, to some extent, fulfilled a role similar to modern taxes.

10% may be a good rule of thumb for some people, but people ought not feel guilty if they don’t give that much.

“Give to Caesar what is Ceasar’s; give to God what is God’s.”

They had taxes back then, and we are under obligation to pay taxes. The tax rate is substantially higher than 10% for most people. They don’t just make you feel guilty if you don’t pay it!

You say taxes do what tithing once did, but I ask do they do it as efficiently? I think the Church could serve the poor much better than the government. Yet some bishops in Minnesota recently published a statement that the state legislature should raise taxes to help the poor. Why don’t our bishops raise donations instead of asking for governent to raise taxes? When did paying taxes become a corporal work of mercy?

We are under obligation to give to God. Unlike the government, the Church doesn’t state a specific percentage. However, the present average of 1% to the Church by average American Catholics is pathetic.

 

[Livnlove55]

scylla:

A one-dollar bill and a twenty-dollar bill were talking. The twenty-dollar bill was telling the one-dollar bill what fantastic times he always has; he goes to the best restaurants, to the theater, the opera, etc. The one-dollar bill said, “How wonderful and interesting your life is. All I ever get to do is go to church!” Many of us would have to agree how true that story is!

When I first began attending Mass, this was one of the many surprises… I couldn’t believe the number of dollar bills in the offering basket! In the Evangelical churches I attended in the past anyone other than the very poorest would be ashamed to give so little. Our parish is not a poor parish and I am sure the vast majority of people could easily afford to give much more.

As part of my study of the Church I did a rather extensive investigation into what the Church teaches on this topic. I learned that it is true that she does not obligate us to give any particular percentage of our income but that we are obligated to give as we are able. In an old catechism from the fifties I read that if we give one day’s pay a month to our parish the needs of the Church will generally be taken care of. I also found, in numerous places, the idea of giving 5% to our parish and 5% to other charities but this was presented as a suggestion, not a hard and fast rule.

For myself, I chose to follow the teaching of the old catechism and give one day’s gross pay to my parish every month, along with special offerings throughout the year when my parish takes up collections for other causes. I also donate to other charities from time to time. Most recently, I gave a large special Easter offering which seemed much too small considering the extent of my gratitude to and love for the Church that was receiving me into full communion.

And that’s what it all comes down to for me. I love the Church and I love my parish and my giving flows out from that love, not from any sense of obligation. I am not rich in worldly goods but God has blessed me with spiritual riches beyond compare and it is a joy for me to give even a little in return. I have heard it said, and I believe it is true, that God will **not **be outdone in generosity. We can never give more than He gives to us.

I must admit that I feel quite uncomfortable writing about this since generally I have always believed anonymous giving is best and the last thing I want to do is sound like I am boasting about how much I give. I even had a discussion with my pastor about this since I was trying to understand what the deal was with parish “envelopes”, which I do not yet have or use. I had noticed that in every Sunday bulletin the number of people who used envelopes was mentioned and they were thanked for using them. I asked him if there was some benefit to the parish in using them and he told me the only benefit was that those who used them tended to be regular givers. Also that if you used them, they could give a receipt for income tax purposes. I told him I don’t itemize deductions so I don’t need a receipt and that I have given and will continue to give regularly whether or not I use them. Even so, I am planning on beginning to use them since he did seem to think it would be better to use them and it sets a good example for others.

So that’s my two cents on this topic. All those dollar bills in the basket do sadden me because I believe it demonstrates a lack of gratitude for what God is giving them every time they attend Mass. And I wish they loved Him enough to give more…
In His love,
Rhonda

 

[gardenswithkids]

Livnlove55:

I love the Church and I love my parish and my giving flows out from that love, not from any sense of obligation. I am not rich in worldly goods but God has blessed me with spiritual riches beyond compare and it is a joy for me to give even a little in return. I have heard it said, and I believe it is true, that God will **not **be outdone in generosity. We can never give more than He gives to us.

Beautifully said!

 

[1holycatholic]

it is one of the seven precepts or laws of the Church that Catholics support their local parish, diocese and the universal Church in its ministries, services and evangelizing mission. Pastors preach on stewardship of time, talent and treasure, usually in October, when Catholics are asked to formally commit to supporting the Church with their gifts in those three categories. This year stewardship of all God’s gifts is the theme that is supposed to be stressed in catechesis of adults and children. some parishes and dioceses have introduced formal tithing programs, or pledges of some type, but most leave it to the individual conscience. Tithing used to be mandatory in Europe but led to abuses when civil authorities tried to control the tithes, how they were spent, and appointments to religious offices and pastoral assignments.

Seven precepts? There are only five.

 

[juliasmith]

My parish requests 8% of your income, participation in one parish ministry, and Mass attendance on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation.

Our family has so much going out that 8% of our income is just not possible. Even ministry participation is difficult. I have an infant child, and babysitting is not always available. My husband is gone most of the time (truck driver) so I am essentially a single parent.

There are cases where tithing is possible for people. That is wonderful if they can. The bills need to get paid at the church. But, Our parish building(s) are paid for. Our church draws in over a Million dollars a year. I think requiring a tithe is ridiculous. Families and individuals should give as they are able.

 

[fellowChristian]

**Old Testament **

** Genesis 14:18 **

18And Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; now he was a priest of God Most High. 19He blessed him and said,
“Blessed be Abram of God Most High,
Possessor of heaven and earth;
20And blessed be God Most High,
Who has delivered your enemies into your hand.”
He gave him **a tenth **of all.

a tenth means 10 parts out of a 100, that is what the word “percent” means "out of a hundred’ so a tenth means ten percent.

**New Testament **

Hebrews 7

Melchizedek’s Priesthood Like Christ’s

1 For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham as he was returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him,
2 to whom also Abraham apportioned **a tenth **part of all the spoils, was first of all, by the translation of his name, king of righteousness, and then also king of Salem, which is king of peace.
3 Without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, he remains a priest perpetually.
4 Now observe how great this man was to whom Abraham, the patriarch, **gave a tenth **of the choicest spoils.
5 And those indeed of the sons of Levi who receive the priest’s office have commandment in the Law to **collect a tenth **from the people, that is, from their brethren, although these are descended from Abraham.
6 But the one whose genealogy is not traced from them collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed the one who had the promises.
7 But without any dispute the lesser is blessed by the greater.
8 In this case mortal men receive tithes, but in that case one receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives on.
9 And, so to speak, through Abraham even Levi, who received tithes, paid tithes,
10 for he was still in the loins of his father when Melchizedek met him.

Sharing among Believers
Acts 4:32-37

and

Acts 5:1-11
Fate of Ananias and Sapphira

The money given to the priest is an offering to God. To be used for the “House of the Lord” which is His Church.

1 Timothy 3:15 **
15 if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.**

Genesis 28:22
“This stone, which I have set up as a pillar, will be God’s house, and of all that You give me I will surely give a tenth to You.”

** 2 Kings 12:4**
The Temple to Be Repaired ] Then Jehoash said to the priests, "All the money of the sacred things which is brought into the house of the LORD, in current money, both the money of each man’s assessment and all the money which any man’s heart prompts him to bring into the house of the LORD,

** This the one my sister “goes by” because she said the words “ten percent” **aren’t ****in the Bible …

1 Corinthians 16
The Collection for God’s People
1Now about the collection for God’s people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. 2On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.

After I showed her where the words “ten percent” are she said she doesn’t "believe the Old Testament counts**" ** because it’s “Old”, and yes she’s Catholic.

 

[fellowChristian]

Sorry, but I found this and had to share…

2 Corinthians 9

6Now this I say, he who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully.

7Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

8And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that always having all sufficiency in everything, you may have an abundance for every good deed;

9as it is written,
“HE SCATTERED ABROAD, HE GAVE TO THE POOR,
HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS ENDURES FOREVER.”

10Now He who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will supply and multiply your seed for sowing and increase the harvest of your righteousness;

11you will be enriched in everything for all liberality, which through us is producing thanksgiving to God.

12For the ministry of this service is not only fully supplying the needs of the saints, but is also overflowing through many thanksgivings to God.

God’s pie
youtube.com/watch?v=upmyrinWq64