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O.S.Luke
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Yes. United Methodist.
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deb1
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O.S. Luke:
I do think that for those who are not living on extremly tight financial budgets, tithing 10% or even more is a very good thing but I don’t like the pressure that some churches put on their poorer members to do something that might cause them harm. A person shouldn’t have to decide between paying their electric bill or feeling guilty about their obligations to God.
Just out of curiousity Pastor, could one of your church members fufill their tithe by giving 5% to a charity?
IN America, believe it or not, there are many people who do not live comfortably. Some people really have trouble making it from paycheck to paycheck. I live next door to a very sweet, godly Baptist couple. Very good Christians. They can’t afford to pay to put the wife on his health insurances. They are trusting to God to keep her healthy but from what they have told me they tithe! Denying your family a basic need-health insurance is a basic need-to tithe seems foolish to me.
I do think that for those who are not living on extremly tight financial budgets, tithing 10% or even more is a very good thing but I don’t like the pressure that some churches put on their poorer members to do something that might cause them harm. A person shouldn’t have to decide between paying their electric bill or feeling guilty about their obligations to God.
Just out of curiousity Pastor, could one of your church members fufill their tithe by giving 5% to a charity?
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mommyaprilj
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I am a member of a military family and am not able to tithe 10%, it’s just not there. However, I teach catechism, volunteer at vacation bible school, my husband and I are lectors, our children are alter servers, I usher, and we do whatever else we are called on to do, and I give what I can.
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Shlemele
Guest
I’m the son of a Mennonite pastor and I’d like to echo Lukes statement. My pairents never owned a new car untill just recently (my mother just got a raise at the job she has been at for 15 years) and finances were always a bit tight. I make more now than my father does and I am just 3 years out of college. My father has two masters and I have a BA.
One thing that hasn’t been mentioned is that seminary is expensive too and on top of family, housing, transportation costs, and all the other expenses there is education payments.
I resent the idea that all pastors teach “health and wealth”. My father preached tithing from the new testament perspective, give of what you can. When I was in High School the church needed a sound man. My “Tithe” was giving of my time since I really didn’t have much money. People want to restrict tithe to money but it isn’t so. If you are donating your time that is a tithe. If you donate food that is a tithe.
Our church has NEVER told people they need to tithe in monitary form. Those in the church who have been blessed in that way donate monitarily, those blessed in the areas of construction helped in building our community gym. You can figure out the rest from there. As far as the tithe mongers go, well they make us protestants angry too so don’t paint with such a broad stroke.
One thing that hasn’t been mentioned is that seminary is expensive too and on top of family, housing, transportation costs, and all the other expenses there is education payments.
I resent the idea that all pastors teach “health and wealth”. My father preached tithing from the new testament perspective, give of what you can. When I was in High School the church needed a sound man. My “Tithe” was giving of my time since I really didn’t have much money. People want to restrict tithe to money but it isn’t so. If you are donating your time that is a tithe. If you donate food that is a tithe.
Our church has NEVER told people they need to tithe in monitary form. Those in the church who have been blessed in that way donate monitarily, those blessed in the areas of construction helped in building our community gym. You can figure out the rest from there. As far as the tithe mongers go, well they make us protestants angry too so don’t paint with such a broad stroke.
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deb1
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I can have respect for your stance. It sounds like your church practices were in line with what the Catholic church teaches and are, in my opinion, are very compassionate.
Perhaps it is because I am in the South, but there are many denominations here that do preach 'give 10% off the top." regardless of the church member’s financial straits.
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Deus_Vult
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I give 5% to my parish and I periodically donate to various Roman Catholic organizations as well. My family is also actively involved in parish ministries and other Roman Catholic organizations. Your tithe does not just have to be just monetary especially if you are not in a good financial situation. I like how Protestants pick and choose what they like or dislike in the OT and NT in this case whatever suites the extortionists needs.
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uofl19
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I forgot about this, I was listening to Dave Ramsey about a week or so ago. I do respect him very much. However, he is an Evangelical Christian and a caller called in and was wondering in Dave’s opinion if he would drop his tithe down in half so he could avoid bankruptcy. Dave said ABSOLUTELY NOT!! He went on a Tirade after the caller went off the air and said. I am a Christian. The Bible tells me which is God’s word that I am to give back 10% right off the top. Under NO circumstances are you not to tithe. Even if it is to avoid bankruptcy. He got on him about some of the Ridiculous toys that got him into this mess. I can agree with that. He went on to say though, that you will not go to Hell if you don’t Tithe 10% but you cannot possibly call yourself a Christian if you don’t. He said if you don’t like that fine don’t listen to the show!!
So there is a definite extreme difference here in the beliefs of Fundamentalists and Catholics when it comes to this. I believe the lady earlier about the elderly Baptist family that still Tithe’s 10% even though they have a hard time just paying there bills! I think that is extremely harsh and some of these Pastor’s are trying to build huge Churches and sanctuaries with this money.
Also, under no circumstances, can you donate to a charity or a mission and count that to your tithe in an Protestant Church. I know for a fact. I have asked my Evangelical friends on that.
So there is a definite extreme difference here in the beliefs of Fundamentalists and Catholics when it comes to this. I believe the lady earlier about the elderly Baptist family that still Tithe’s 10% even though they have a hard time just paying there bills! I think that is extremely harsh and some of these Pastor’s are trying to build huge Churches and sanctuaries with this money.
Also, under no circumstances, can you donate to a charity or a mission and count that to your tithe in an Protestant Church. I know for a fact. I have asked my Evangelical friends on that.
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mercygate
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In the Confraternity of Penitents, we are obligated to tithe (under spiritual direction, this may be modified) but BEFORE we are obligated to tithe, we are obligated to pay of all of our debts. A big problem in our society is debt. If a parish encouraged its people to exercise responsible fiscal stewardship, a lot of the grousing and confusion about tithing would go away.
My archdiocese now includes a financial unit in marriage prep.
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Lisa_N
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Deus Vult:
I think the term charity begins at home makes sense here both with respect to feeding your family first and then your parish, and then outside organizations and charities. I volunteer to help count our envelopes every week and I always worry about people who give two rumpled dollar bills. I fear they really need to keep every dime for their own maintenance but I honor their determination to give. We have a LOT of young families and I certainly understand they can’t donate as much as people without kids. I figure they give in raising kids! That’s a job.
Please don’t feel pressured to give money. If you are in a pinch and still want to do something see if there is a volunteer opportunity. Time talent or treasure right?
Lisa N
I’ve heard that the 10% is total of all charity, not just your parish. Our priest said Catholics give less to the PARISH than most Protestants give to their church but Catholics also have lots of other collections that are to the CHURCH but not the parish. So maybe it evens out.
I think the term charity begins at home makes sense here both with respect to feeding your family first and then your parish, and then outside organizations and charities. I volunteer to help count our envelopes every week and I always worry about people who give two rumpled dollar bills. I fear they really need to keep every dime for their own maintenance but I honor their determination to give. We have a LOT of young families and I certainly understand they can’t donate as much as people without kids. I figure they give in raising kids! That’s a job.
Please don’t feel pressured to give money. If you are in a pinch and still want to do something see if there is a volunteer opportunity. Time talent or treasure right?
Lisa N
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uofl19
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You know, I would love to print off all the responses and hand them to my Evangelical buddy and say HERE READ THESE!! Obviously I would not do that because I don’t want to make this into an argument. Plus, he would probably say something like SEE CATHOLICS DON’T BELIEVE IN THE BIBLE!! Give him more arsenal to berate the Church. All of these replys have been just outstanding! I think this is a great debate and I wish some Protestants would come on here and defend it like the Methodist Minister did. We may not agree with him but at least he had teh guts to come on here and defend his argument.
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O.S.Luke
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Deb, believe it or not, I am well aware of the fact that there are many Americans in poverty - and the parish I serve sits in the middle of one of the poorest counties in the U.S. along the Mississippi River. Some of the poor sit in pews in the parish I serve.
My wife and I could drive two new cars and a new motorcycle. Instead, I choose to drive a 4 year-old car, a 12-year old truck, and a 12-year old motorcycle, for the simple reason that we have taken care of them, they still run, and they’re still cheap to maintain. The motorcycle burns a fraction of the fuel that the other vehicles use… and it can take me to make pastoral/hospital calls, district meetings, and other pastoral functions just as well. The money saved allows me to give more and support more. I think the Church and the Body of Christ is worth it.
I reread my post to be sure I was clear: I encourage a tithe; I don’t mandate one. I simply ask people to examine their needs (as opposed to wants), and give out of their ability, faith, and spiritual leading. For some in my parish, that’s anywhere from a few dollars to 5-figures. There is no “tithe to fulfill” - only an obligation to serve as a baptized member of the Church. I still maintain that our money and how we spent it is a spiritual matter. The Biblical texts say more about money and wealth than any other one topic.
United Methodists also have obligations that go beyond their local parish; approximately 16-20% of the average UMC’s financial budget goes toward Conference (analogous to a diocese) and General Church benevolences, the Council of Bishops, etc. The UMC also owns 123 universities, colleges, seminaries, and prep schools such as Duke, SMU, Boston U., Drew, and Emory, So we support far more than our local parish work, too.
John Wesley, the founder of Methodism, once said this: “Make all you can, save all you can, give all you can.” I think that’s faithful, and in no way do I see it as manipulative or instilling guilt.
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badebop
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What it boils down to is; if you see a need, do what you can. Having to give 10% sounds like earning your way to heaven, if you ask me. 
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deb1
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O.S. Luke:
I didn’t mean to imply that you are misusing either your salary or the funds from the church. I don’t think that and I apologize if I wasn’t clear.
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crobynb
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When it comes to tithing I think that you give what you can with your heart behind it. God does not care if you cannot give as much as another - more money does not equal more love!! We are not buying his love and grace; we give what we can in thanksgiving for this life. Yes there is an obligation to support the church, our parish, but there is no set figure to fulfill that - nor does it even have to be monetary!!
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Deus_Vult
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Actually they are the ones who dont read the Bible…the 10% rule is OT…they are the first to mention NT over OT on other subjects. Why does this not apply in this situation see below…
6Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. 7Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. 8And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work. 2 Corinthians 9:6-8 NIV
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badebop
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In response to my own post, I do encourage tithing. You’ll find you’ll won’t miss the 10% and that you have even more you can give. I never knew I was tithing until I sat down one year at tax time and added up all my charitable contributions. I was surprised to find it was over 10% (including my monthly donation to Catholic Answers, of courseWhat it boils down to is; if you see a need, do what you can. Having to give 10% sounds like earning your way to heaven, if you ask me.
). If you give from the heart, God will lead you.
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Philthy
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Strive for unity not arguments. Practice by letting others have the last word if they must. Humility is the model christ gave us, not argumentation.
That biblical 10% was not money it was produce, and it was from the OT. And I don’t believe it was a requirement in the sense that some are claiming to make it out to be - it sas the amount someone offered to God. If Im mistaken someone please provide a verse stipulating that to keep more than 89% of your produce is sinful. I won’t hold my breath. If you wanted to be biblical and include the new testament we’d be giving a lot more than 10% - go read what the community was like in Acts - they gave it all away.
I like the following two verses as guidance:
Proverbs 3:9
Honor the Lord with you wealth; with firstfruits of all your produce. Then will your barns be filled with grain, with new wine your vats will overflow.
**2Corinthians 9:6-7 **
Consider this: whoever sows sparingly will reap sparingly. Whoever sows bountifully will reap bountifully. Each should do as already determined without sadness or compulsion for the Lord loves a cheerful giver.
Bring this question to our Saviour, wait patiently and listen carefully to what He says to you. Then follow your heart. If you still do not feel His Peace with respect to this topic, speak to your priest next time your in confession.
Again, bring this to Him. He loves you and will not turn his back on you. Part of understanding His love for us is understanding our own failings with respect to him. Despite our failings He still loves us greater than we can know. Growing in knowledge of His love for you will help you surrender more of yourself to him. I hope this helps
Phil
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KittyKat
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I am so happy to hear that most people aren’t saying that there is something wrong if you can’t. If we tried right now something would have to leave our budget, and there isn’t anything in there that we don’t need. Atleast until after our little boy is born and the bills from that are paid.
I am happy to hear the Methodist pastor saying he doesn’t try to guilt the people into giving. The Methodist church I attended would call several times each year to find out how much you could give if you would say you didn’t know to try to get an amount from you. Then when they wanted to buy a new building they started another financial campaign and were telling people to get second or third jobs and give it all towards the church on top of what they normally give. People tried to make me feel bad because I didn’t have an income even though I spent many hours working there each week.
I am happy to hear the Methodist pastor saying he doesn’t try to guilt the people into giving. The Methodist church I attended would call several times each year to find out how much you could give if you would say you didn’t know to try to get an amount from you. Then when they wanted to buy a new building they started another financial campaign and were telling people to get second or third jobs and give it all towards the church on top of what they normally give. People tried to make me feel bad because I didn’t have an income even though I spent many hours working there each week.
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Philthy
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Hi Kitty!
KittyKat:
Phil
As nice as it is to have the support of other people, please be sure to pray about this and ask God for guidance one way or the other. You will get an answer. We all have to be careful when it comes to material wealth because we (Americans) are exposed to a standard of living that is just so unrealistic compared to much of the world. Things we consider “necessary” are luxury items in most of the world: clean drinking water that you don’t have to carry from a well would be an example. The point is not to guilt you out, but for you to recognize the many ways in which we fall short of the example of Christ so that we are sure to confess these things to Him and to continue to grow, through his Grace, in his likeness.
Phil
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