Title of address for Maronite bishop

[malphono]

Just wanted to clarify that Methran is not really an indianization of Metropolitan, it’s actually the Aramo-Syriac word for bishop (Mutran) - Arabs, Copts, Armenians, and others (even Greek Antiochians) use it as well, since it’s been incorporated into Arabic as well.

Small point here, but the word “mutran” isn’t really an Aramaic/Syriac expression at all. That it’s used by the Copts and Armenians (at least the Armenians in the Levant - I don’t know about those in Armenia itself) kind of bears witness to that. The word itself is an Arabicization, derived from the Greek for Metropolitan. It’s use in Arabic is rather loose, meaning that it isn’t restricted to archbishops or true metropolitans. And it’s used as a title rather than as a form of address.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Small point here, but the word “mutran” isn’t really an Aramaic/Syriac expression at all. That it’s used by the Copts and Armenians (at least the Armenians in the Levant - I don’t know about those in Armenia itself) kind of bears witness to that. The word itself is an Arabicization, derived from the Greek for Metropolitan. It’s use in Arabic is rather loose, meaning that it isn’t restricted to archbishops or true metropolitans. And it’s used as a title rather than as a form of address.

Not arguing with you about something I am probably wrong about, but the Amharic lexicon attributes the word to Arabic via Syriac and Greek:books.google.com/books?id=VvkWy35Wx1AC&pg=PA45&lpg=PA45&dq=Mutran+syriac&source=bl&ots=eeUEHgSRH_&sig=J2LHFDdhvs7-j4C16Ac1Ciy4YuA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj89L-8_bvJAhVJmR4KHQJ_AGQQ6AEILDAG#v=onepage&q=Mutran%20syriac&f=false I believe in Greek “metran” has the same root meaning as ‘meter’, as in ‘measure’, the standard -http://biblehub.com/greek/3358.htm

 

[Upgrade25]

Yes, some do but sadly it’s only those very few of us who still subscribe to the Syro-Maronite position.

How do you mean?? Are you referring to language or tradition, or something else?

 

[Thomas48]

Just wanted to clarify that Methran is not really an indianization of Metropolitan, it’s actually the Aramo-Syriac word for bishop (Mutran) - Arabs, Copts, Armenians, and others (even Greek Antiochians) use it as well, since it’s been incorporated into Arabic as well. The Malayalam equivalent, I suppose, would be “Thirumeni” - which, originally, is a word used to describe a Hindu high priest (literally from Tamil meaning “Divine” “Thiru”] “Body” “Meni”]), and is used commonly by Syriac Christians from Changanasserry and south - I’m not certain that word is used commonly north of Trissur.

About the use of “Thirumeni” - it’s the Malayalam equivalent for Syendna or Vladyka as respect to the High Priest, close in expression to ‘My Lord’, and is considered more affectionate than the formal Syriac Aboon Mor or Moran .

Its usage is relatively recent in Kerala, earlier when Kerala was divided into 3 kingdoms only the King of Travancore was addressed as Thirumeni. Out of respect for the King, Christians both Orthodox and Catholic did not address their Prelates as Thirumeni, referring to them as Pithav or Valiya Achen meaning Father or Senior Father. It was only when the kingdoms became irrelevant that the current usage started.

I just noticed this comment today, thank you very much for this clarification, I did not know this! Syro Malabar Catholics do not use Thirumeni in regard to our own bishops, however any bishop in the black cassock (West Syriac) seems to be automatically referred to as Thirumeni, even by us . To my knowledge, Methran is less used by the West Syriacs in favor of Thirumeni, vice versa for us. Many Syro Malabar Catholics even refer to the Catholici of the West Syriac Churches as Bava Thirumeni!