Title of Catholic Priests

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Isn’t there anyone out there who understands that Jesus was telling us that we were all brothers and no one brother was to be raised up above another?

(Matthew 23:8-12) “You, however, must not allow yourselves to be called Rabbi, since you have only one Master, and you are all brothers. You must call no one on earth your father, since you have only one Father, and he is in heaven. Nor must you allow yourselves to be called teachers, for you have only one Teacher, the Christ. The greatest among you must be your
servant. Anyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and anyone who humbles himself will be exalted.”

It is dangerous to be called father or to call another brother father. The resent history of the abuses of a number of Catholic priests proves my case.

I haven’t read in Scripture where Peter, James, John, or Paul ever was addressed as father. If they had they would have been disobeying Jesus.

I don’t believe Paul ever allowed any one to call him father Paul. I also believe his use of father, was just an expression to remind the people to whom he was writing that he was responsible for their rebirth in Christ.
Giver
 
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Giver:
Isn’t there anyone out there who understands that Jesus was telling us that we were all brothers and no one brother was to be raised up above another?
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Yes we understand that

Do you understand that giving someone an honorific doesn’t raise them above the rest of us?
we can give someone a title and that doesn’t make them any less our brother.
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Giver:
(Matthew 23:8-12) “…… Anyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and anyone who humbles himself will be exalted.”
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which maybe why Benedict XVI said “…the Cardinals have elected me, a simple and humble laborer in the vineyard of the Lord.” After he was given the title Pope…i.e. Father 😉
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Giver:
It is dangerous to be called father or to call another brother father. The resent history of the abuses of a number of Catholic priests proves my case. …
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yadda yadda :rolleyes:
To support that allegation you would have to show that anyone with some sort of honorific is more likely to do something wrong or that abuse by priests is somehow more widespread that in the general population.
Besides, if we’ve been saying father for 2,000 years why has this problem only cropped up recently? 😉
 
Giver: Jesus also said that no man should be called “teacher”, yet Paul also uses this as a title in the church. (1 Cor. 12:28, Eph. 4:11). It is the intention behind the title, not the title itself. Jesus also said that you should hate your parents. (Lk 14:26) Did he mean this literally? No, he was using hyperbole. Your love for Christ should be so great, that in comparison you hate your parents.
Take a look at scripturecatholic.com/the_priesthood.html#priesthood-I.

Many Protestants call their minister “Pastor”. This is a title of respect. If you are to take this command to the extreme, the title pastor should probably be forbidden as well, as it’s meaning is similar (in intent) to that of “teacher” or “Father”. We are all brothers in Christ, but others have demonstrated on this thread that Paul clearly teaches that some are at the same time ‘fathers’. If this is the case, why is it wrong to call them such? You say that we are brothers. Why ignore that fact that some are also fathers? We are commanded to honour the presbyters of the Church, (1 Tim. 5:17) and the title “father” is a form of honour.

Also keep in mind that Jesus himself teaches that believers have brothers, sisters, mothers, and fathers. (Mat. 19:28-30).

God bless.

In Christ,
Tyler
 
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Giver:
I haven’t read in Scripture where Peter, James, John, or Paul ever was addressed as father. If they had they would have been disobeying Jesus.
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Ok Giver, so what about this:

1Cor 4:15-16 Even though you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.
Therefore I urge you to imitate me.
Is that good enough for you? There are many examples to prove that your understanding of the scriptures are incorrect, but this one should suffice…and I’m sorry, scripture does not lie.
 
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Giver:
It is dangerous to be called father or to call another brother father. The resent history of the abuses of a number of Catholic priests proves my case.
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Giver, I have read tons of folks replying to you scripturally…and doing a great job, and hope you prayerfully read over and with an open mind consider what has been given.

I did want to comment about the Catholic priest abuse scandal.
Just by googling Baptist sex abuse I found three quick examples of troubled ministers. I think this is a problem that all faiths should be aware of. It is not just a catholic problem!

free-essays-free-essays.com/dbase/2e/cia61.shtml

nospank.net/n-g09.htm

sullivan-county.com/nf0/combs/
 
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Giver:
I am no longer a Roman Catholic, but I do believe that the Eucharist is truly the Body and Blood of Christ.
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Code: 
              allow me ato press the issue further.....
Do you believe the Real Presence requires an ordained, Apostolic succession…

or do you believe anyone, or somene else, can consecrate?

If yes, to the first,… why did you leave the only source of Jesus’ gift to us - Himself - which is in the Catholic Church alone (the only Church founded by Christ… no other Church even makes that claim and we all know why)

If yes to the second… I would contend that you can’t believe because you don’t really understand what is involved in the Real Presence.
 
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Giver:
Isn’t there anyone out there who understands that Jesus was telling us that we were all brothers and no one brother was to be raised up above another?. . .[etc]
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Actually, to “understand” such a thing would be to go counter what the Lord Himself teaches when He, Himself, raises up (first) His Apostles as leaders of His Church (not just honorific, either, but with true authority).

It seems your erroneous reading of scripture has brought you to the assumption that, while we are all brothers and sisters in Christ, there can never be anyone who has more authority - or holiness (and this isn’t necessarily and automatically tied to the first) - than anyone else. This, of course, would be a “comfortable” position to assume since it allows one to serve as his or her own authority when reading Scripture.
 
I love it when this happens; Protestants love to find a verse that seems to discredit the RCC, despite the fact that there are a dozen verses that contradict it. But they just hold on to that one verse so hard.

But then again, why should reason and consistency get in the way of some good old prejudice right?

It’s really quite funny.
 
I started to compile a list of all the times someone referred to their father, other than God, and the list got rediculously long. Yet another proof that sola scriptura simply doesn’t work.
 
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Giver:
It is dangerous to be called father or to call another brother father. The resent history of the abuses of a number of Catholic priests proves my case. Giver
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Giver what do we say about the 900 Protestant married ministers convicted (not just accused) of sexual abuse to children? I am sorry to sound mean but your comment is completely misguided.
 
that is a pretty powerful link…

So much for “their” agruement that if priests were allowed to marry, they would not have the “inclination” to seek out boys.
 
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MrS:
allow me ato press the issue further…

Do you believe the Real Presence requires an ordained, Apostolic succession…

or do you believe anyone, or somene else, can consecrate?

If yes, to the first,… why did you leave the only source of Jesus’ gift to us - Himself - which is in the Catholic Church alone (the only Church founded by Christ… no other Church even makes that claim and we all know why)

If yes to the second… I would contend that you can’t believe because you don’t really understand what is involved in the Real Presence.
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(Mark 9:38 – 40) “John said to Him, ‘Master, we saw a man who is not one of us casting out devils in your name; and because he was not one of us we tried to stop him’. But Jesus said, ‘you must not stop him: no one who works a miracle in my name is likely to speak evil of me. Anyone who is not against us is

(Acts 2:46) “They went as a body to the Temple every day but met in their houses for the breaking of bread; they shared their food gladly and generously they praised God.”

(1 Peter 2:9) “But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a consecrated nation, a people set apart to sing the praises of God who called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light.”

Now if we are royal priest as Peter said and the early Christians went to their homes to receive the Eucharist, and Jesus said even if people were not part of the main group they were for Him, and Jesus said (John 6:53) “Jesus replied: ‘I tell you most solemnly, if you do not eat the flesh of the Son of Man ad drink his blood, you will not have life in you,” So do you really believe Jesus would let some one who was with Him not have life in him? Also it just doesn’t make sense to say that a Spirit filled person could ask Jesus to change bread and wine into His Body and blood and He would refuse the request.

(Hebrews 10:19-22) “In other words, brothers, through the blood of Jesus we have the right to enter the sanctuary, by a new way which he has opened for us, a living opening through the curtain, that is to say, his body. And we have the supreme high priest over all the house of God. So as we go in, let us be sincere in heart and filled with faith, our minds sprinkled and free from any trace of bad conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.”

(In the OT only the priest could enter the sanctuary. Now, because we are all priest we can all enter
Giver
 
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Giver:
It is dangerous to be called father or to call another brother father. The resent history of the abuses of a number of Catholic priests proves my case.
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What you are doing is called an ad hominem attack. Because you can’t prove your point using Scripture, you move onto another attack, namely the sex abuse scandal. In the past 50 years, there have been only 3-4% of all priests accused of sexual abuse, which is less than protestant ministers. In protestantism, the number of sex abuse scandals is as high as 10%. It isn’t just a Catholic problem, it is everyone’s problem. Just look at some of the police officers which abuse their position too, you wouldn’t chastise all good police officers for the sins of the few would you? Yet that’s what you’re doing to the Catholic priests. Most are good servants of God and your claim is totally unfounded. In regards to your original question, you are flat out wrong. See here:

1 Tim. 1:18

This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest wage a good warfare;

Saint Paul was not literally Timothy’s father, now was he? Was Saint Paul, inspired by the Holy Spirit, disobeying Christ here?

1 Cor. 4:14-15

I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you. For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

Maybe it is your literal interpretation of Scriptures which is skewed, not ours.

God bless,
 
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levi86:
I love it when this happens; Protestants love to find a verse that seems to discredit the RCC, despite the fact that there are a dozen verses that contradict it. But they just hold on to that one verse so hard.

But then again, why should reason and consistency get in the way of some good old prejudice right?

It’s really quite funny.
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If your comments were meant for me, I’m not a protestant, and am not trying to desecrate the Catholic Church. I am trying to help the Church. It is dangerous for both parties to call another man father or to be called father.
 
Semper Fi:
What you are doing is called an ad hominem. Because you can’t prove your point using Scripture, you move onto another attack, namely the sex abuse scandal. In the past 50 years, there have been only 3-4% of all priests accused of sexual abuse, which is less than protestant ministers. In protestantism, the number is high as 10%. In regards to your original question, you are flat out wrong. See here:

1 Tim. 1:18

This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest wage a good warfare;

Saint Paul was not literally Timothy’s father, now was he? Was Saint Paul, inspired by the Holy Spirit, disobeying Christ here?

1 Cor. 4:14-15

I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you. For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

Maybe it is your literal interpretation of Scriptures which is skewed, not ours.

God bless,
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I don’t believe Paul ever allowed any one to call him **“father ** **Paul”. ** I also believe his use of father, was just an expression to remind the people to whom he was writing that he was responsible for their rebirth in Christ.
 
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Giver:
I don’t believe Paul ever allowed any one to call him “father Paul”. I also believe his use of father, was just an expression to remind the people to whom he was writing that he was responsible for their rebirth in Christ.
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Please read again. Begetting someone is becoming their father, which is exactly what Saint Paul did through the Gospel & the Holy Spirit.

1 Cor. 4:14-15

I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you. For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

And also here:

Luke 1:73

The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

Luke 16:24

And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Luke 16:30

And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

John 8:53

Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?

John 8:56

Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

Acts 7:2

And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran,

Genesis 32:9

And Jacob said, O God of my father Abraham, and God of my father Isaac, the LORD which saidst unto me, Return unto thy country, and to thy kindred, and I will deal well with thee:

Joshua 23:3

And I took your father Abraham from the other side of the flood, and led him throughout all the land of Canaan, and multiplied his seed, and gave him Isaac.

Romans 4:12

And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

Abraham was not literally ANY of their fathers. Concede our point, you have lost.
 
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