TLC Gypsy show and 1st Communion Dresses

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I don’t know if this is the right area of the boards for this, but here goes:

I cannot figure out how the little girls on the TLC Gypsy show get away with the absolutely ridiculous and sometimes downright trashy 1st communion dresses at whatever parish they are going to! Has anyone else thought this?
 
Iheartcoffee said:
I don’t know if this is the right area of the boards for this, but here goes:

I cannot figure out how the little girls on the TLC Gypsy show get away with the absolutely ridiculous and sometimes downright trashy 1st communion dresses at whatever parish they are going to! Has anyone else thought this?
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Why do you watch television?
 
Iheartcoffee said:
I don’t know if this is the right area of the boards for this, but here goes:

I cannot figure out how the little girls on the TLC Gypsy show get away with the absolutely ridiculous and sometimes downright trashy 1st communion dresses at whatever parish they are going to! Has anyone else thought this?
Click to expand...
Yes. I was not aware that gypsies are Catholic. Actually never thought about it until this show.

Who knows gypsy culture? They’ve always been portrayed having gaudy taste in clothes. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think the communion dresses are way over the top but I haven’t seen one I’d call trashy as in skimpy (that sure not the case).

The bridal gowns!! Tulle horrors. The bridesmaids are pretty trashy. However, look at the trash dress on the other reality shows. What’s the difference?

I’d like to know if the Church works with gypsies. Obviously, the communicants must be taught their catechism. It use to be very difficult to validate who they were because they did not have birth certificates nor social security cards. Guess haven’t made inroads regarding modesty.
 
You know, it’s odd about them.

On the one hand, the little girls wear make up and short skirts, belly shirts, etc. They seem to dance quite provocatively, like belly dancing.

On the other hand, ALL of their girls are virgins when they get married - they don’t have pre-marital sex. They do get married quite early, but the wives do not work outside the home. It’s a cultural expectation that the husband will support his family. They are quite old-fashioned that way.

It’s a very strange culture. I’m sure the parishes where the more residential ones roost, are used to them.

But no one likes them much. This show does not document their notorious reputation for swindling and theft.
 
TheRealJuliane said:
You know, it’s odd about them.

On the one hand, the little girls wear make up and short skirts, belly shirts, etc. They seem to dance quite provocatively, like belly dancing.

On the other hand, ALL of their girls are virgins when they get married - they don’t have pre-marital sex. They do get married quite early, but the wives do not work outside the home. It’s a cultural expectation that the husband will support his family. They are quite old-fashioned that way.

It’s a very strange culture. I’m sure the parishes where the more residential ones roost, are used to them.

But no one likes them much. This show does not document their notorious reputation for swindling and theft.
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I was talking about the show today with a woman from an area that has gypsies. I asked her why it is difficult for them to get a venue for the wedding. Is it because they don’t pay the bill? She said no. It usually because so many more show up than what was told to the caterer. I guess it becomes a mad house. The guy last night indicated that they were all over some wanting sweets and others eating the meals moving about so that the waiters couldn’t serve correctly.
 
  1. Yes, parish priests work with Rom. Of course. They work with any soul that comes close enough to know about. There’s also a special Vatican division for various transient Catholics: sailors, migrant workers, nomadic tribes, Rom, Travelers, etc.
Rom follow various different religions, depending on individual groups’ history and culture. This is usually on top of their Rom religious beliefs, customs, and ritual purity laws.
  1. Was it a Catholic church? A fair number of Protestant churches also have “First Communion.”
  2. Actually, Rom, and particularly Rom women, have very strict modesty standards. The problem is that the parts of the body they’re most modest about, and their most modest expressions of behavior, are somewhat different from traditional European modesty standards. For example, a lot of Rom tribes feel it’s horribly immodest for a woman to walk upstream of a man, for various ritual impurity reasons. I think the general rule is that they’re only really concerned about what’s below the belt being covered; but I don’t remember this very well…
I’m not Rom and I don’t watch that show, but I’m the kind of person who reads anthro books and remembers stuff. Rom purity laws have a lot of analogies to ancient Hebrew, Hindu, Persian, Irish, and other ancient Indo-European societies ruled by extremely strict customs. The problem is that, since outsiders aren’t part of the strict customs, they aren’t protected by their laws; and some Rom feel justified in cutting loose on such immoral persons as ourselves. And since outsiders can’t detect the ways in which Rom are strictly law-abiding and somewhat disgusted by our bizarre and immodest behavior, it’s fairly difficult for either side to understand and be kind to the other.

I do know somebody who is part-Rom and found the Rom customs way too harsh to go on with, so she pretty much has no contact with that side of the family. She’s not a big fan of romanticizing their way of life; but it wasn’t a matter of everybody being slack. Just the opposite.
 
On these shows, the churches are Catholic…stations of the cross, candles, priest interviewed… the whole thing. I don’t really know of another church except Orthodox that has first communion and the girls are in white dresses and veils.
 
aicirt said:
On these shows, the churches are Catholic…stations of the cross, candles, priest interviewed… the whole thing. I don’t really know of another church except Orthodox that has first communion and the girls are in white dresses and veils.
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The Lutheran church holds first communion in the same way that the Catholic church does. I also believe the Angelicans hold theirs like that as well but I would have to check with a friend to be sure.
 
Then I guess the priest reached a modus vivendi with his parishioners. Sounds just like a rich suburb to me! 🙂

Catholics have the right to receive the Sacraments; priests really don’t want to refuse them, and mostly they can’t, by canon law. And if everybody who’s Rom is having First Communion at the same time, and every girl has the same dress code, probably nobody’s modesty is being shocked.
 
Well, I went and looked at some clips.

Not my choice for a girl’s First Communion, but not that much more over the top than some First Communion dresses in other Catholic cultures. The bared shoulders, skinny bodices, etc. aren’t immodest in Rom culture.

So yeah, I’d say Father is just glad that the families care enough to put in some effort. Goodness knows that plenty of Catholics think they shouldn’t dress up their kids at all. And a lot of ethnic cultures go way over the top with various celebrations, because they are happy and want to share the joy (and repay the hospitality of others).

(It wasn’t Rom who stuck 25 pine trees into our tiny church for a winter wedding, and tried to hire 30 or 40 musicians to perform a non-liturgical, not very politely worded song from the top 40. During Mass. Got kiboshed tactfully.)
 
The show the OP is talking about is different from the American version of the show. The original UK version is mostly about Irish travelers (gypsies) who are almost all Catholic (just like most Irish people). That was the show with the first Communion dresses. And yes they were pretty outrageous. The girls were even late to their own first Communion because they had to put those things on and have hair and makeup done.

In the U.S., gypsies (mostly Romanichal) are both Protestant and Catholic.

There are many different types of gypsies spread throughout the world.
 
anp1215 said:
The show the OP is talking about is different from the American version of the show. The original UK version is mostly about Irish travelers (gypsies) who are almost all Catholic (just like most Irish people). That was the show with the first Communion dresses. And yes they were pretty outrageous. The girls were even late to their own first Communion because they had to put those things on and have hair and makeup done.

In the U.S., gypsies (mostly Romanichal) are both Protestant and Catholic.

There are many different types of gypsies spread throughout the world.
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Actually, I had been watching the UK version (Is there one about US gypsies?-don’t tell me because I might get hooked…I can’t help it!) and I was shocked to see some of the very short fronts to the dresses. I don’t care as much about the big dresses, even though I think they are more focused on displays of wealth than the actual Sacrament. It’s the skimpy bare shoulders, the mini-skirt fronts that become long in the back, etc. that make me wonder how they are allowed to wear those to Mass. I am used to parishes providing a set of guidelines for 1st Communion attire.
 
A lot of cultures that allow women to expose their upper bodies more than the Anglo-Saxon culture have stricter premarital sex “policies”. It’s interesting.
aicirt said:
I don’t really know of another church except Orthodox that has first communion and the girls are in white dresses and veils.
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The Orthodox don’t have first communion - the babies are chrismated at the moment of baptism and can receive communion immediately afterwards.
 
Mintaka said:
  1. Yes, parish priests work with Rom. Of course. They work with any soul that comes close enough to know about. There’s also a special Vatican division for various transient Catholics: sailors, migrant workers, nomadic tribes, Rom, Travelers, etc.
Rom follow various different religions, depending on individual groups’ history and culture. This is usually on top of their Rom religious beliefs, customs, and ritual purity laws.
Click to expand...
Is there? What is that office?
 
One of the gypsies in the US show talked about being sent here as slaves. I’m assuming she is referring to her ancestors being indentured servants who were sent to the Americas to pay off debts.
 
I havent finished my coffee so I’m a bit fog headed, I assumed the Travellers who are Irish descendants like Jharek mentioned are usually Catholic, and there is a community in either N or S Carolina. I think one in Texas too. I also read somewhere in the Internet so not sure of validity but sometimes the communities sometimes have their own priests who are not exactly inline with the church.
 
I find these shows very fascinating, but I think that they are probably over the top, sort of like how not all Italian Americans are like the characters on the Jersey Shore.

What I understand is that although they are called “gypsies” The Travellers and the Roma have different origins and ethnic backgrounds.

Irish Travelers are normally Catholic. The Roma vary, depending on what culture they are living in.

My mom remembers being a little girl in Sicily and a community of Roma stayed at her village for a while.

What impressed her were the vibrant colors they wore (contrasting to the dark somber colors many Sicilians wore…after WWII many were in mourning. The custom was widows always wore black.)
 
Yes, it was very enlightening. Also google The Catholic Church and the Gypsies. (I don’t know how to cite the site:confused:) That article discusses the deportation of Roma back to their home countries from France. Who knew? This resulted in Sarkovy popularity taking a down turn.
 
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