TLM: diocesan approval?

[Magnum_V8]

One of the parishes in my diocese is anticipating getting the TLM at their parish. Its run by an Order, not diocesan priests. They had a petition with over a hundred signatures. I don’t belong to the parish, but sometimes I go there for morning mass and their latest bulletin had an update on the TLM: “Awaiting diocesan approval; be patient.”

What? I thought the motu proprio took care of that.

Any ideas?

 

[kleary]

One of the parishes in my diocese is anticipating getting the TLM at their parish. Its run by an Order, not diocesan priests. They had a petition with over a hundred signatures. I don’t belong to the parish, but sometimes I go there for morning mass and their latest bulletin had an update on the TLM: “Awaiting diocesan approval; be patient.”

What? I thought the motu proprio took care of that.

Any ideas?

The MP did take care of that… however some still are going the way of their local Bishop for approval.

If I were you I would get a copy of Summorum Pontificum and bring it to the superior of the order there. They DO NOT need to go to the Diocese for approval. It is up to the pastor there to make the decisions regarding it all- the Diocese cannot give approval or can they deny it under the MP guidelines.

All they can do is complain to the Ecclesia Dei Commission if they do not like it.

Ken

 

[Magnum_V8]

Yeah, I think I may call them sometime this week just out of curiosity. I highly doubt that they haven’t seen or read the motu proprio. I believe it was the motu proprio that caused them to offer the petition in the first place.

Do you think this would have anything to do with vows?

Not that its relevant here, but I remember from childhood that this parish used to offer the Novus Ordo in Latin. This was back in the 80’s, and I wasn’t a parishoner at that time either. But their early morning daily NO (English) is so reverent. Yesterday I went there for my First Saturday devotion, and the priest that celebrated mass reminded me of the stories I hear of Padre Pio. He stared so devoutly at the elevated Host, and continued that look with his eyes even as he lowered it.

 

[mgy100]

It is my understanding that if they intend to be a “special use” parish, one that would use the 1962 missal everyday and conduct the sacraments (baptism, weddings, etc…) in the old style, then they HAVE to HAVE the diocesan bishop’s approval.

If a parish simply wants to have a missa cantanta on every Sunday at 1 pm, then it is handled at a parish level.

 

[kleary]

It is my understanding that if they intend to be a “special use” parish, one that would use the 1962 missal everyday and conduct the sacraments (baptism, weddings, etc…) in the old style, then they HAVE to HAVE the diocesan bishop’s approval.

If a parish simply wants to have a missa cantanta on every Sunday at 1 pm, then it is handled at a parish level.

In a way you are correct. If they wanted to become an EF exclusive parish (like mine) they would need to be established by the local bishop for such purpose.

However they are allowed to offer the Sacraments in the EF without permission…this includes Baptism, Confirmation, Matrimony and Extreme Unction. (I think I read this somewhere in SP)

Ken

 

[Aramis]

In a way you are correct. If they wanted to become an EF exclusive parish (like mine) they would need to be established by the local bishop for such purpose.

However they are allowed to offer the Sacraments in the EF without permission…this includes Baptism, Confirmation, Matrimony and Extreme Unction. (I think I read this somewhere in SP)

Ken

Confirmation is always the bishop’s decision under Roman use, since the Bishop is the only normative minister of confirmation. (Pastors only get to confirm during the Easter Tridium.)

The bishop is still the adjudicator of whether or not a priest is adequately trained (which is another requirement of the Moto Proprio) or not; any priest sent by Ecclesia Dei would be presumed to be so trained, as would an FSSP or Institute of Christ the King trained priest.

 

[Rachele_Ann]

Some bishops have imposed limitations on the celebration of the EF of the Mass.

 

[Magnum_V8]

Some bishops have imposed limitations on the celebration of the EF of the Mass.

How can that be when a higher authority has already said its allowed? I’m not doubting you, because I do believe that there are bishops trying to push their weight around on the issue. But I just don’t understand how.

 

[Magnum_V8]

If they wanted to become an EF exclusive parish (like mine) they would need to be established by the local bishop for such purpose.

Interesting. If that’s what’s happening in the parish I described, then Alleluia!

 

[universalindult]

The bishop is still the adjudicator of whether or not a priest is adequately trained (which is another requirement of the Moto Proprio) or not; any priest sent by Ecclesia Dei would be presumed to be so trained, as would an FSSP or Institute of Christ the King trained priest.

That is NOT how Cardinal Hoyos presented the issue on September 13, 2007:

“priests can decide, without permission from the Holy See or the bishop, to celebrate the Mass in the ancient rite … the Code of Canon Law says who must give permission to say Mass and it is not the bishop: the bishop gives the “celebret”, the power to be able to celebrate but when a priest has this power, it is the parish priest and the chaplain who must grant the altar to celebrate.”

He is clearly stating that once the bishop grants the celebret, the priest has the right to offer the mass, either form. Period.

Expect to see this clarified/enforced by the upcoming document from PCED.

 

[universalindult]

How can that be when a higher authority has already said its allowed? I’m not doubting you, because I do believe that there are bishops trying to push their weight around on the issue. But I just don’t understand how.

Archbishop Ranjith clarified this in October:

It is not up to us, who wear ecclesiastical purple and red, to draw this into question, to be disobedient and make the motu proprio void by our own little, tittle rules. Even not if they were made by a bishops conference. Even bishops do not have this right. What the Holy Father says, has to be obeyed in the Church. If we do not follow this principle, we will allow ourselves to be used as instruments of the devil, and nobody else. This will lead to discord in the Church, and slows down her mission. We do not have the time to waste on this. Else we behave like emperor Nero, fiddling on his violin while Rome was burning. The churches are emptying, there are no vocations, the seminaries are empty. Priests become older and older, and young priests are scarce.

 

[rwoehmke]

I would expect that a priest like anyone else who reports to a superior is going to think twice before he bucks his bishop. It is always a good feeling when the higher authority agrees with one, but it still leaves one at the tender mercies of the next guy up the ladder.