TLM Mass in the US VS Europe

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I am interested in how the TLM is growing in Europe , In particular France, as compared with the US. I am asking because I notice that a lot of traditional priests in the US are French. So What is the growth rate between the two?
 
h1478971 said:
I am interested in how the TLM is growing in Europe , In particular France, as compared with the US. I am asking because I notice that a lot of traditional priests in the US are French. So What is the growth rate between the two?
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It’s my impression that the TLM is not growing in Europe, but it’s difficult to find statistics about it. This site may be of general interest, though.
 
The FSSP has French, German and English-sepaking priests.
 
Yellow_Belle said:
It’s my impression that the TLM is not growing in Europe, but it’s difficult to find statistics about it. This site may be of general interest, though.
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What would be interesting is to see how many priests and seminarians are studying to say the EF. We can’t have more EFs unless we get more priests to say them.
 
i’m wondering if TLM is growing at all in Europe because Christianity itself is on the decline over there

isn’t that one of the missions Pope Benedict had when he became Pope? to revitalize Christianity in Europe
 
choy said:
i’m wondering if TLM is growing at all in Europe because Christianity itself is on the decline over there

isn’t that one of the missions Pope Benedict had when he became Pope? to revitalize Christianity in Europe
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It is the Pope’s mission. But when he doesn’t have the majority of his Roman clergy backing him on this. Well then he needs to look to the Eastern Catholics/Orthodox for help. Which he is doing!. We need to get rid of the spirit of Vatican 2 clergy, which still dominates and tutors our young seminarians into thinking that Vatican 2 was the council to end all councils, and the NO Mass is the 21st Century Mass and the only form of the Roman Rite with all innovations acceptable. Only then will change come quicker. Today I went to a NO Mass with my mother for Corpus Cristi, and also because it was Mass said for my deceased Father. She unfortunately is a EMHC and proud of it. Well their was more women hanging around the altar then you can shake a stick at. Their was about 5 EMHC serving, when the deacon and priest was more than enough. And as for music. Well guitar, computer assisted keyboard, etc. Looked pretty protestant to me!. And the vestments were plain jane white. All MSC style!.
 
bkovacs said:
It is the Pope’s mission. But when he doesn’t have the majority of his Roman clergy backing him on this. Well then he needs to look to the Eastern Catholics/Orthodox for help. Which he is doing!. We need to get rid of the spirit of Vatican 2 clergy, which still dominates and tutors our young seminarians into thinking that Vatican 2 was the council to end all councils, and the NO Mass is the 21st Century Mass and the only form of the Roman Rite with all innovations acceptable. Only then will change come quicker. Today I went to a NO Mass with my mother for Corpus Cristi, and also because it was Mass said for my deceased Father. She unfortunately is a EMHC and proud of it. Well their was more women hanging around the altar then you can shake a stick at. Their was about 5 EMHC serving, when the deacon and priest was more than enough. And as for music. Well guitar, computer assisted keyboard, etc. Looked pretty protestant to me!. And the vestments were plain jane white. All MSC style!.
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i’m talking about reinvigorating Christianity in Europe

what makes you think what YOU want and what YOU think is whats best for the Church? the direction of the Church today has been decided and is being decided by Bishops in the past and today and they will be in the future with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. if you reject that, then you reject the Church as a whole. don’t think this, “its TLM or nothing” attitude is Holy. its not. its just another form of Cafeteria Catholicism, i choose how i worship, everything else is garbage because “I” said so
 
the direction of the Church today has been decided and is being decided by Bishops in the past and today and they will be in the future
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Doesn’t the Pope have a say?
 
The traditional Mass is growing more quickly in the US than anywhere else in the world. The movement is still growing pretty well in France, but I think the US has taken over in more recent years. The foundations of the traditional movement were French, which is why there is so much Gallican influence even on this side of the Atlantic.

The number of apostolates per capita in France still far exceeds the number in the US, but when you consider the “hard line” vs. “soft line” French traditionalists (hard line would categorize basically your average American traditionalist, the soft line is more like what we would call “conservative” but likes the traditional Mass), then the numbers tend to favor America, again. I wouldn’t be qualified to say for sure how that would figure per capita, though, as all my friends and acquaintances in France and Europe at large are “hard line.”

Another consideration with all of this, though, is the number of faithful at each apostolate. While there are many more churches per capita in France, most people simply won’t drive more than 20 - 30 minutes to go to Mass. To have to leave their own city or metropolitan area is something Europeans on the whole are quite averse to, whereas this has been the status quo in America since the first apostolate began. If you survey the average traditional apostolate here, you’ll probably find the average drive time to be about 45 minutes with some people coming up to 2 hours or more each way. This is why Europe would need more apostolates to serve the same number of people. Thankfully, the FSSP (at least, I can’t speak for the SSPX or ICR) is consistently getting more and more integral traditionalists (“hard line”) both in Europe and the States.
 
choy said:
i’m talking about reinvigorating Christianity in Europe

what makes you think what YOU want and what YOU think is whats best for the Church? the direction of the Church today has been decided and is being decided by Bishops in the past and today and they will be in the future with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. if you reject that, then you reject the Church as a whole. don’t think this, “its TLM or nothing” attitude is Holy. its not. its just another form of Cafeteria Catholicism, i choose how i worship, everything else is garbage because “I” said so
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It seems you are rejecting the Church as a whole, as you glazed over the fact that bkovacs mentioned the Eastern Churches and is in fact a Greek Catholic. So I highly doubt he has a “TLM or nothing” attitude. And I doubt it’s an issue of “how I choose to worship” rather, which is more reverant and gives greater glory to Almighty God (at the same time elevating the senses & soul to Him). So you could actually modify your post to read “what makes YOU AND JAM…etc. etc.etc.” Because I totally agree with him 100%.
 
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