TLM misconceptions

[magdalina]

The following quote is often attributed to Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen.

There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church, which is, of course, quite a different thing.

Would a similar statement on the Traditional Latin Mass have merit?

 

[corsair]

I, certainly, think that such a statement would apply. So many people I have met have some very strange impressions of the TLM. They have never been taught.

 

[choy]

on the flip side of things, the same can be said true of Traditionalist who “hate” the OF

i think its fairly common in anything that people would hate something that they don’t fully understand. possibly for fear of the unknown or simply the misconceptions because of the lack of knowledge

 

[magdalina]

on the flip side of things, the same can be said true of Traditionalist who “hate” the OF

i think its fairly common in anything that people would hate something that they don’t fully understand. possibly for fear of the unknown or simply the misconceptions because of the lack of knowledge

Do you know of converts who have bypassed the OF and gone directly to the TLM? I can hardly imagine the number being very large.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

on the flip side of things, the same can be said true of Traditionalist who “hate” the OF

i think its fairly common in anything that people would hate something that they don’t fully understand. possibly for fear of the unknown or simply the misconceptions because of the lack of knowledge

Hm, that’s quite a strange and unlikely scenario here. I mean, it is not possible today not to be familiar with the NO. It is hardly something unknown. It is the *only *thing most Catholics know. Traditionalists who strongly dislike the NO normally feel that way because of negative experiences they had.
Complete opposite can be said about those who are against TLM. There are not many resources to learn about it out there unless people follow Catholic blogs or something like that. Many priests openly preach against the tradition and depict it as being something backward and unecessary to hold on to. In this case ignorance is indeed one of the reasons for the ideological opposition to TLM.

 

[SunnaB16]

Agree. Good comparison!

There seems to be a general belief that, because the vast majority of us dont know Latin, we should stay well clear of the TLM. ***Absolute baloney!*** i dont know Latin, and never will; but just to be there, and soak up the reverence, the dignity and the beauty of it overwhelms any (imaginary) minuses.
Theres a real fear of the "dead language". And theres the stupid belief that only the elderly want it.

When we understand what the Mass is, and what its various parts mean, language doesnt mean much. Its our Lord`s time-transcending Ultimate Sacrificial Act that matters.

If only we could lasso some of the well meaning but mistaken TLM opponents, and cart them off to the TLM!

A lot of folks are also happy in their laid back, often very liberal, comfort zone…
… “Do Not Disturb”

 

[Nowhere_Man]

I think we could generalize and say “People hate what they think they understand.”

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Do you know of converts who have bypassed the OF and gone directly to the TLM? I can hardly imagine the number being very large.

Interesting point. I know of a few actually. They do feel more strongly about the issue than other people and tend to avoid the OF if at all possible. But they are not ignorant of the OF, they have objections that are grounded in facts. They are all very devout and faithful to the magesterium.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

There seems to be a general belief that, because the vast majority of us dont know Latin, we should stay well clear of the TLM. Theres a real fear of the “dead language”.
And there`s the stupid belief that only the elderly want it.

So true.
Also, I don’t understand the ‘argument’ that Latin makes it impossible to understand what’s going on. It is so easy to use the missal. Most people these days know how to read, right? I’m sure everybody is capable of holding a book and following the text. I’m convinced it’s just a question of laziness.

 

[SunnaB16]

So true.
Also, I don’t understand the ‘argument’ that Latin makes it impossible to understand what’s going on. It is so easy to use the missal. Most people these days know how to read, right? I’m sure everybody is capable of holding a book and following the text. I’m convinced it’s just a question of laziness.

i think you`re right. The barriers are of their own making.
Only a week ago, a long-time TLM devotee said to me: “Why try to learn Latin when you can read the English on the opposite page?”. So, we have the choice. Easy!
At a Solemn High Mass, the chanting is slow enough to allow us to mouth the Latin…a good way to pick up a bit of it.

Re your comment in your previous post about converts, theres a current CAF thread started by a convert named Dolores_IHS ("Kneeling to receive Communion") whos upset by the opposition to kneeling… There`s also a revolting post by a cradle Catholic. Takes the proverbial cake!

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Re your comment in your previous post about converts, theres a current CAF thread started by a convert named Dolores_IHS ("Kneeling to receive Communion") whos upset by the opposition to kneeling… There`s also a revolting post by a cradle Catholic. Takes the proverbial cake!

Interesting, I’m going to have a look. I’m desperately trying to understand people who are so opposed to traditional practices that put God at the centre of worship. I just don’t get it.

 

[Bbigam]

Hm, that’s quite a strange and unlikely scenario here. I mean, it is not possible today not to be familiar with the NO. It is hardly something unknown. It is the *only *thing most Catholics know. Traditionalists who strongly dislike the NO normally feel that way because of negative experiences they had.
Complete opposite can be said about those who are against TLM. There are not many resources to learn about it out there unless people follow Catholic blogs or something like that. Many priests openly preach against the tradition and depict it as being something backward and unecessary to hold on to. In this case ignorance is indeed one of the reasons for the ideological opposition to TLM.

And yet there are some (not all!) Traditionalists who seem to truly not understand the Ordinary Form. They seem to think that a Mass in the OF is automatically a “clown mass” or at least something utterly devoid of reverence, focusing entirely on the people, and celebrated by priests spouting heresy. Maybe that’s based on bad experiences like you mentioned… but it’s hardly the full picture.

 

[rapunzel77]

Do you know of converts who have bypassed the OF and gone directly to the TLM? I can hardly imagine the number being very large.

Yep, myself, my husband, and my brother. Sure, we were confirmed in the OF but I immediately went to the TLM during RCIA. I fell in love almost from the start and that is the one I go to almost exclusively. It is very rare that we go to an OF Mass. We will on occasion, typically for holy days of obligation or a wedding/funeral. The last one I went to I believe was my pastor’s funeral. My husband and I sang in the choir.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

And yet there are some (not all!) Traditionalists who seem to truly not understand the Ordinary Form. They seem to think that a Mass in the OF is automatically a “clown mass” or at least something utterly devoid of reverence, focusing entirely on the people, and celebrated by priests spouting heresy. Maybe that’s based on bad experiences like you mentioned… but it’s hardly the full picture.

That’s a fair point, sometimes people like to generalise and make things sound worse than they are. Perhaps it is the case when you are steeped in beauty, mystery and tradition that connects you to centuries of worship, then a priest who begins the Mass by greeting people, communion in the hand, EMHCs and the occasional protestant hymn tend to seem a bit clownish. Or simply a bit ‘off’. I’ve heard many traditionalists make comments along these lines and I completely understand the sentiment.

 

[ljubim]

That’s a fair point, sometimes people like to generalise and make things sound worse than they are. Perhaps it is the case when you are steeped in beauty, mystery and tradition that connects you to centuries of worship, then a priest who begins the Mass by greeting people, communion in the hand, EMHCs and the occasional protestant hymn tend to seem a bit clownish. Or simply a bit ‘off’. I’ve heard many traditionalists make comments along these lines and I completely understand the sentiment.

I agree… things that make orthodox Catholics squirm are totally normal to others - either because of lack of education, the habit of having an excuse for everything, or just seeing it all the time.

 

[MarkThompson]

I agree… things that make orthodox Catholics squirm are totally normal to others - either because of lack of education, the habit of having an excuse for everything, or just seeing it all the time.

I don’t get it . . . are you being serious, or are you subtly calling out the “misconception” that self-styled traditionalists will automatically accuse anyone they disagree with of being uneducated and full of excuses?

 

[ljubim]

I don’t get it . . . are you being serious, or are you subtly calling out the “misconception” that self-styled traditionalists will automatically accuse anyone they disagree with of being uneducated and full of excuses?

Well… that’s why I said because they see it all the time. The vast majority of people can’t tell if something is right or wrong in the Mass just because they’ve seen it all, and the more vocal ones will tend to give excuses from these precedents, or bring up something totally unrelated (a schola chanting…but it’s the choir’s intentions that count! a woman with a veil? Well what kind of person are they outside of Mass?)

And trads who do this are being uncharitable :dts: opinions are nothing when they’re not backed up by Church documents or other legitimate sources. The best is to use some Vatican II on them

 

[archangel04]

And yet there are some (not all!) Traditionalists who seem to truly not understand the Ordinary Form. They seem to think that a Mass in the OF is automatically a “clown mass” or at least something utterly devoid of reverence, focusing entirely on the people, and celebrated by priests spouting heresy. Maybe that’s based on bad experiences like you mentioned… but it’s hardly the full picture.

Well it’s like I said on another topic, it;s because of the EF that I have a better appreciation and understanding of the OF. The only thing now that it’s makes me sad when I see other who don’t know how awsome the OF can be if we all put our part in it. Oh well.

 

[Bbigam]

Well it’s like I said on another topic, it;s because of the EF that I have a better appreciation and understanding of the OF. The only thing now that it’s makes me sad when I see other who don’t know how awsome the OF can be if we all put our part in it. Oh well.

I completely agree with this!

 

[CradleCath]

Interesting point. I know of a few actually. They do feel more strongly about the issue than other people and tend to avoid the OF if at all possible.** But they are not ignorant of the OF, they have objections that are grounded in facts.** They are all very devout and faithful to the magesterium.

I think that this description describes me. I was 28 yrs. old when the Novus Ordo was promulgated & the TLM. was supposedly “abolished”. I tried for YEARS to love that Mass as I’d loved the Mass of the Ages. By 1980, I’d given that up & just tried to endure. It’s been over 10 yrs. since I’ve seen Liturgical Dancers & listened to “homilies” that called gay couples with children…families.

The lacks that I find in the Novus Ordo Mass, as it is commonly prayed today, have NOTHING to do with the language in which it’s prayed & little to do with the extreme abuses listed above. I dislike the horizontal theology of the Novus Ordo, the **emphasis **on “Brotherhood” & many other things that seem to have become inherent in the Novus Ordo Mass.

Until our priests accept the fact that the TLM. is a good thing for the Church & insure that, even if they don’t pray it themselves, the laity knows where & when they can find this Mass, nothing is going to change. Hopefully, the day will come when both Masses are addressed during the RCIA, & CCD classes & both are taught in our Catholic schools. As it is now, in my city with 9 different parishes not **one **priest is ready to address from the pulpit, the fact that one of those parishes does offer the TLM. (as well as the Novus Ordo). They seem to fear the Mass of the Ages.