TLM or OF for Protestant Children

[TrueLight]

So I took them to the TLM and here are the verdicts on a scale of 1-10:

18 Year old Son
He gave the mass a 4. He asked me if I was sure it wasn’t a Muslim service as there was so much bowing. He asked, "Are you sure Catholics are Christian?. I had to sit him down and school him on the age of Protestantism.

16 year old daughter
She gave the mass a 6. She said it wasn’t bad but there was too much up and down and she didn’t understand most of it.

13-year old daughter
She didn’t give it a score but she said it was interesting. She liked crossing herself when the priest sprinkled us with water. She also felt there was too much kneeling. Both daughters did not like that they had to kneel at “Et Verbum Caro Factum Est” for what seemed like 1 nanosecond and then they were back on their feet. She felt that people spent the whole service looking for places where they could kneel. LOL.

So that’s that. Maybe they would have liked the OF better. Who knows?

In general, I’d say my daughters liked making the sign of the cross and they asked me further questions on how to do it.

Also later my youngest said, “Mom, you’re not going to become Catholic are you?”. She joked that I am changing and becoming more conservative and she wants to divorce me.

The current church they attend and I occasionally attend, is very liberal and they are not used to this new mom. I guess that’s what happens when you have a conversion experience.

 

[Lintaro]

18 Year old Son
He gave the mass a 4. He asked me if I was sure it wasn’t a Muslim service as there was so much bowing. He asked, "Are you sure Catholics are Christian?. I had to sit him down and school him on the age of Protestantism.

16 year old daughter
She gave the mass a 6. She said it wasn’t bad but there was too much up and down and she didn’t understand most of it.

13-year old daughter
She didn’t give it a score but she said it was interesting. She liked crossing herself when the priest sprinkled us with water. She also felt there was too much kneeling. Both daughters did not like that they had to kneel at “Et Verbum Caro Factum Est” for what seemed like 1 nanosecond and then they were back on their feet. She felt that people spent the whole service looking for places where they could kneel. LOL.

So that’s that. Maybe they would have liked the OF better. Who knows?

In general, I’d say my daughters liked making the sign of the cross and they asked me further questions on how to do it.

I say that you’re making good progress! Slowly, but steadily, teach your kids about the Catholic faith. The most important thing is to not force them. The Holy Spirit is the One that does the conversion, not you.

Keep your kids interested; buy books, holy cards, etc. Answer any question they ask, but never force them. It will take time, maybe a lot of time. I’ll pray for you and your family.

Oh, and in regards to your 18-year-old son, Catholics are the original Christians. Buy a book about the Church Fathers, like Jimmy Akin’s The Fathers Know Best, and hope that your son one day stumbles upon it and reads it.

Best wishes, God bless.

 

[TrueLight]

I say that you’re making good progress! Slowly, but steadily, teach your kids about the Catholic faith. The most important thing is to not force them. The Holy Spirit is the One that does the conversion, not you.

Keep your kids interested; buy books, holy cards, etc. Answer any question they ask, but never force them. It will take time, maybe a lot of time. I’ll pray for you and your family.

Oh, and in regards to your 18-year-old son, Catholics are the original Christians. Buy a book about the Church Fathers, like Jimmy Akin’s The Fathers Know Best, and hope that your son one day stumbles upon it and reads it.

Best wishes, God bless.

Good suggestions. Thanks!

 

[The_Curt_Jester]

From the sound of what you said before, none of them has really taken an interest in religion. With that in mind, I’d say the reactions you got were pretty good. The TLM was rather confusing to me when I first experienced it as well, and I was a Catholic then. It would help if they understood more about Catholicism, but sometimes it helps them to see something to get their curiosity going.

 

[TrueLight]

From the sound of what you said before, none of them has really taken an interest in religion. With that in mind, I’d say the reactions you got were pretty good. The TLM was rather confusing to me when I first experienced it as well, and I was a Catholic then. It would help if they understood more about Catholicism, but sometimes it helps them to see something to get their curiosity going.

I think I misrepresented somewhat.

It’s not that they have no interest in religion or God whatsoever. I would say they are lukewarm Christians. It takes a lot for teens these days to ignore all the things of the world thrown at them through TV and school.

Out of all of them, my oldest son is the more committed. He often attends an evangelical church that his father used to attend when he was alive. He also attends youth meetings there all on his own and spends time with the bible all on his own. He often asks me biblical questions.

My oldest daughter downloaded the bible onto her blackberry on her own, but both she and the younger one listen to all the disgusting music that is on the radio.

The most lukewarm one is the youngest, but she seemed to enjoy the mass the most.

None of them find the Reformed church services they mostly attend very interesting, but everyone goes to church every Sunday.

 

[TrueLight]

I’m taking my teen daughters to the EF mass tomorrow.

Please pray that they will be open.

I spoke to them and explained the Sacrifice of the Mass to them. I also told them that during the times when we kneel like during the Agnuse Dei and Consecration they can take that time to pray even if they don’t understand what is going on.

However, let me stress they don’t really want to do this and protest that they don’t want to be Catholic.

They attended an EF mass about three months ago and this is their second.

Please pray that all goes well.

 

[Cat]

Why don’t you take them to something in their own language so that they can understand what is going on and actually learn the nuts and bolts (the facts) about the Catholic faith?
[edited]

Take them to something in their own language, done with excellence.

Finally, what impresses teenagers is not so much what they see, but WHO they see. Jesus, of course, is there. But how many friends in the Church do you have? Do people come up to you and greet you warmly, and ask you to introduce you to your children? THAT will impress teenagers–YES, it will, as strange as it sounds! Many teens are lonely deep down inside, and they are looking for love, not just romantic love, but a deep, agape love. IMO, make sure that whatever parish you attend, TLM or otherwise, has friendly people that you are becoming bonded with, and then make sure that your teens meet your friends. They will long to experience the same kind of close “family” feeling that you have at your church.

You and I are both from Protestant backgrounds, so I hope that some of my comments hit home with you. I’ve been Catholic for seven years now, and love it.

 

[puzzleannie]

I don’t think this battle, esp. with teens is going anywhere, but if you take them on a holy day, and Easter is certainly the best time, go where you normally go, because your purpose is in introducing them to the way you worship now.

don’t take them to the TLM unless that is where you go regularly.

do not under any circumstances force them to come to Mass with you every week, they are not Catholic, it is not required, and at their age it has to be their choice. Holidays under the heading of “this is what the family does together” is fine but the older they get the less likely they are to cooperate. Forcing the issue will not help.

 

[TrueLight]

Okay so first of all chill out.

What are you gunning for me? I let you rant on and on about how you hate anything traditional because that’s your preference. It is not your role to judge my spiritual walk with God.

Why don’t you take them to something in their own language so that they can understand what is going on and actually learn the nuts and bolts (the facts) about the Catholic faith?

I don’t get this at all. It seems to me that what you are showing them is that Catholics are just as “experience-oriented” as the Pentecostals. You accuse certain Catholi churches of “Protestantism,” and yet, I would say that YOU are the one who is acting Protestant by constantly seeking more and more “experiences” of traditional Catholicism instead of just looking to get to know Jesus in the Eucharist better.

All over this board, you have threads about various traditional Catholic practices and experiences.

Maybe you should move on when you get to one of my threads.

You have no idea whether I am getting to know Jesus in the Eucharist better or not. Maybe I post threads on things I struggle with or don’t understand? You’re not my catechist, so it’s not up to you to determine where I am.

I had no idea you were stewing at your computer anytime you saw one of my threads. Pray for love and patience, Sister.

Is it Jesus you are interested in, or just “deep religious experiences?”
/quote]

Jesus. How about you?

quote]
Do you study your Bible and Catechism as much as you study chant, mysticism, artwork, etc.?

Yes, in fact I have always studied the Bible. I also read my catechism of the Catholic church.

I’m kind of worried about what will happen when the newness of the “Catholic Experience” wears off, and the TLM becomes routine in your life. What will you move on to then?

Don’t worry about me. Worry about your spiritual life and your hatred for those who are traditional.

I think your kids see through this, and they are wondering the same thing–“Oh, this is just Mom’s latest “kick,” and once she gets bored with it, she’ll move on.”

To them, the TLM is just another passing fad in your search for meaning. They’re going to be turned off, and since they haven’t yet heard anything in their own language, they won’t have enough “facts” about Catholicism to make an informed decision to accept or reject it.

I guess you know my children and what they are thinking. How presumptuous!

What makes you think I don’t talk to them about the Catholic faith. What do you think they will learn from the Vernacular that is different from the TLM. They get to hear the Gospel and Epistle in English. They hear the sermon in English.

By the way, the advice you have later on in your posts about Fact Faith Feeling train would have been good advice but since you chose to approach me by attacking and judging me, it was made null and void\ in my eyes.

Work on approaching someone with charity, unless you just had a bone to pick and you chose this thread to pick it.

 

[TrueLight]

I don’t think this battle, esp. with teens is going anywhere, but if you take them on a holy day, and Easter is certainly the best time, go where you normally go, because your purpose is in introducing them to the way you worship now.

don’t take them to the TLM unless that is where you go regularly.

do not under any circumstances force them to come to Mass with you every week, they are not Catholic, it is not required, and at their age it has to be their choice. Holidays under the heading of “this is what the family does together” is fine but the older they get the less likely they are to cooperate. Forcing the issue will not help.

I understand. I am not forcing them to come with me often. I understand it is my journey. I asked them to come with me just twice this summer and I will also attend the Protestant church with them twice this summer so that we can go to church together.

I took them to the TLM because that is where I normally go. I wanted them to see where I am when I go to Mass and to know what I’m doing. T

That particular parish has a coffee hour and the parishioners were very welcoming to them.

By the way, my eldest daughter said the service today was nice and very peaceful. That’s a start.

 

[TheMc]

By the way, my eldest daughter said the service today was nice and very peaceful. That’s a start.

SWEET!

 

[TrueLight]

SWEET!

I know! I was very pleasantly surprised.

 

[TheMc]

Why don’t you take them to something in their own language so that they can understand what is going on and actually learn the nuts and bolts (the facts) about the Catholic faith?

I don’t get this at all. It seems to me that what you are showing them is that Catholics are just as “experience-oriented” as the Pentecostals. You accuse certain Catholi churches of “Protestantism,” and yet, I would say that YOU are the one who is acting Protestant by constantly seeking more and more “experiences” of traditional Catholicism instead of just looking to get to know Jesus in the Eucharist better. All over this board, you have threads about various traditional Catholic practices and experiences.

Is it Jesus you are interested in, or just “deep religious experiences?”

Do you study your Bible and Catechism as much as you study chant, mysticism, artwork, etc.?

I’m kind of worried about what will happen when the newness of the “Catholic Experience” wears off, and the TLM becomes routine in your life. What will you move on to then?

I think your kids see through this, and they are wondering the same thing–“Oh, this is just Mom’s latest “kick,” and once she gets bored with it, she’ll move on.”

To them, the TLM is just another passing fad in your search for meaning. They’re going to be turned off, and since they haven’t yet heard anything in their own language, they won’t have enough “facts” about Catholicism to make an informed decision to accept or reject it.

If you want your children to understand algebra, you could show them the original Arabic historical scripts in which Algebra was invented by the Muslims.

OR–you could enroll them in a math class taught in their own language by an experienced teacher who uses teaching techniques that have been proven effective at helping young people understand algebra.

Isn’t there at least one parish in your city where there is an excellent “teaching” priest who has a reputation of giving deep, engrossing homilies? At our parish, we have four priests, and only one of them is a really good homilist. (The others have their own special gifts, talents, and abilities.) If I were going to expose teenagers to Catholicism at my parish, I would try to take them to Masses presided over by the good homilist.

When my husband and I first started looking into Catholicism, we spent almost two years, at the suggestion of one of our parish priests, attending apologetics classes. In these classes, we listened to riveting lectures and participated in deep discussion about the history and theology of the Catholic Church.

Have you ever heard of the Fact Faith Feeling train? (The Four Spiritual Laws from Campus Crusade for Christ). You might want to remember it when it comes to your teenagers. People need to learn the FACTS first, because our faith should be based on FACTS, not our FEELINGS. If feelings are there, that’s fine, but they are the caboose, not the engine.

What you seem to be doing is trying to make your kids “feel” Catholicism first, instead of just giving them the FACTS.

The FACTS of Catholicism speak for themselves. They are truth, and I believe that when Christians learn the truth, they will have to make a decision in favor of the Catholic Church. I think that many Protestants remain Protestant because they don’t know the facts.

We shouldn’t be trying to bring people, especially teenagers, into the Catholic Church by offering them an “experience” at Mass. We should be pointing them to Jesus Christ, Truly Present, and making sure that they understand Catholicism.

BTW, if you think that they will be blown away by a TLM, I don’t agree. A Harry Potter movie has just as much mental and emotional stimulation as a TLM to a teenager who is not Catholic. When someone doesn’t understand something, it’s just gibberish. It might be beautiful gibberish to some, but it’s still gibberish.

Take them to something in their own language, done with excellence.

Finally, what impresses teenagers is not so much what they see, but WHO they see. Jesus, of course, is there. But how many friends in the Church do you have? Do people come up to you and greet you warmly, and ask you to introduce you to your children? THAT will impress teenagers–YES, it will, as strange as it sounds! Many teens are lonely deep down inside, and they are looking for love, not just romantic love, but a deep, agape love. IMO, make sure that whatever parish you attend, TLM or otherwise, has friendly people that you are becoming bonded with, and then make sure that your teens meet your friends. They will long to experience the same kind of close “family” feeling that you have at your church.

You and I are both from Protestant backgrounds, so I hope that some of my comments hit home with you. I’ve been Catholic for seven years now, and love it.

Cat, First of all, you need to calm down. Are you going for the “experience” when you go to the OF? It’s such an “experience” hearing everything in english.

Re: Learning algebra: Our primary purpose at Mass is not to learn with our minds. If it was, why was the Mass ever in latin in the first place. I’m not saying you can’t learn by going to Mass (in either form), but that’s not the primary purpose. The primary purpose of the Mass is to worship the Most High God in the way he wishes, and the EF is one of those legitimate ways.

 

[ProVobis]

Re: Learning algebra:

Good point. Why learn math when you’ve got calculators and spreadsheets? Or learn spellings when you have spell-checkers? Or hear the Latin when you have perfect translations which don’t change every 40 years?