TLM Versus Populum

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Based on what I have read, there is no rubrical prohibition on celebrating the Tridentine Mass VP. Does anyone know how Ad Orientem became the norm, and are there any pictures of Versus Populum TLM in a parish or ‘common’ setting?
 
Not all of them…

Saint Peter’s, Saint Paul’s outside the walls, Saint Maria Maggiore (I think…)
 
Ad Orientem means facing East, which has been traditional Church practice since the earliest centuries, where the president/priest and congregation would all face to the East (and the rising sun) for worship. Churches were commonly constructed on east-west lines such that the altar and everyone would face east, though there were exceptions to that.
 
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Thanks for the correction. Perhaps I’m confused then about your question on how ad orientem became the norm.
 
Because the Last Supper, and, most likely, a fair amount of Early Christian Eucharistic Liturgies
Technicality...
Technically not called Mass, since the Church was not Latinized at this point and therefore the Eucharistic Liturgy did not end in ‘Ite, Missa Est’
were celebrated like the Last Supper were, around the table as opposed to a ‘shelf’
 
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Does anyone know how Ad Orientem became the norm
In the early days of the Church, when Christians were no longer persecuted and allowed to build Churches, there arose two traditions of Church orientation, based on two traditions of synagogue orientation, both involving the Temple of Solomon. The first was to align the church so that it was facing in the direction of the Temple itself in Jerusalem. The second, which became the norm in Rome, was to align the church in the same way as the Temple, with the sanctuary in the west. The priest said the mass facing east, facing the people (so ad orientem and versus populum at the same time, as in Old Saint Peters). A later tradition arose independently in the East and in the Frankish kingdom of orienting churches the other way around, and this tradition later became the norm. This mean that to be facing east, the priest now had to turn his back to the people. Later, the requirement that churches face literal geographical east was abandoned, and the concept of “liturgical east” arose, which meant that “east” was now whichever end of the church sanctuary was in, regardless of true geographical direction.
 
Okay. My original impression, referring to the question on TLM, led me to believe that you though Ad Orientem was a practice that originated much later in history than it did.
 
Based on what I have read, there is no rubrical prohibition on celebrating the Tridentine Mass VP. Does anyone know how Ad Orientem became the norm, and are there any pictures of Versus Populum TLM in a parish or ‘common’ setting?
I have no photos , but in 1961 while staying in a Paris lycee Mass was celebrated with the priest facing us in the chapel .
 
It started during the liturgical movement–the idea was so that the people could see everything going on on the altar. Here are some pictures from the 40s and 50s
 
I wonder if they really had the appropriate permissions to do this? Or was the priests and/or bishops doing it on their own?

Though I’ve heard that during private masses on portable altars / tables, it was not uncommon to pray the mass Versus Populum, like the one in that last pic.

Its funny how some liturgical deviations tend to go viral. In my area, there are a number of priests who started within the past year to pray the silent prayer “May the Body/Blood of Christ keep me safe for eternal life” loud enough for everyone to hear. 🤔
 
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Also, before the Church built churches, the Roman Emperor Constantine gave the Church public buildings which were formerly used for government meetings. and such.

Documents were kept on a shelf at the far side of the rectangle shaped building. The Church used those selves as altars as the Scripture they read from were extremely heavy.

As the Church began to build it’s own churches, they oriented it accordingly as you posted.

Jim
 
The Church used those selves as altars as the Scripture they read from were extremely heavy.
Ummm… Scripture is not read from the altar, and probably has never been. In these early churches, the altars were free standing.
 
I’m not talking about the Bible itself, although it may have been used for parts of the Mass. However, scripture from the Bible which were used for celebrating the Mass, especially Jesus words of Consecration would be at the altar, or shelf as it originally was.

Jim
 
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However, scripture from the Bible which were used for celebrating the Mass, especially Jesus words of Consecration would be at the altar, or shelf as it originally was.
I don’t think so. Do you have a credible source for that. I’ve taken higher level courses in the history of the Liturgy and the history of church architecture, and have never encountered this explanation.

Also remember that only baptized Christians were allowed to enter a church, which was the reason why freestanding baptisteries became the norm at the time. The Liturgy of the Catechumens was originally a separate Liturgy that probably did not take place inside the actual church, but in the porch.

Altars fixed to the back wall were an innovation that became popular in the Frankish kingdom sometime in the sixth or seventh century, and it had nothing to do where where the Scriptures were kept.
 
The spiritual director of my OCDS, group, who earned a doctors degree on liturgical history, gave us a seminar on the history of the Mass and the history of Confession.

Most of what I’m posting, comes from memory of what he explained to us.

Jim
 
The spiritual director of my OCDS, group, who earned a doctors degree on liturgical history, gave us a seminar on the history of the Mass and the history of Confession.
I’d like to know what source he was using, because I’ve never encountered it in any source I’ve ever come across. Like I said, it doesn’t conform to my understanding of how the early Liturgies were carried out, and I have read many sources. Perhaps your spiritual director was speculating, or your memory is faulty. Or perhaps he’s right, but I’d still need a reliable source. I’m constantly learning new things about the history of the early Church, and my mind has been blown more than once.
 
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