TLM wedding

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Dulcie

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Are there any online resources to explain the TLM wedding? My fiance and I are going to have a TLM service when we get married. The priest seems to think that we will have to have the words of the marriage itself in English to make it legal and valid (wedding will be in England), but that the rest of the mass will be in Latin.

So my question is, how much “choice” do we have over readings, music, prayers, words of the service etc - is it all completely fixed, or do we have some different options? (I don’t think our priest has done a TLM wedding before, so it’s a bit hard to get answers from him - I’d like to find some resources we can take to him and discuss.) When I’ve googled I’ve even found a couple of indications that there are different versions of the marriage service itself, but I can’t find any great resources. We would like the version of the service that includes “with my body I thee worship”, for example, and I’ve seen it mentioned as a “rare” version of the trad service, but I really want a clear, authoritative resource if possible that explains all the different choices to us, particularly as I will be organising the music.
 
Are you sure you’re going to have a wedding celebrated according to the preconciliar books and not just according to the later form but in Latin?

I ask because your priest seems to perhaps not understand. I would think that if a priest were trained to celebrate these rites in the older forms, he would know these things.
 
YoungTradCath said:
Are you sure you’re going to have a wedding celebrated according to the preconciliar books and not just according to the later form but in Latin?

I ask because your priest seems to perhaps not understand. I would think that if a priest were trained to celebrate these rites in the older forms, he would know these things.
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Oops, I think I might have got myself confused, actually. :o I think you’re right - the priest seems to be saying that the marriage service itself might not be legal and valid in England if it’s the traditional one (?), so that will have to be the new service - but the actual mass following the marriage will be a TLM. So can anyone shed any light on what determines the readings, prayers, music etc for the TLM when it’s being celebrated as a wedding mass? (I’m still quite new to the TLM, though I do love it.)
 
Dulcie said:
Oops, I think I might have got myself confused, actually. :o I think you’re right - the priest seems to be saying that the marriage service itself might not be legal and valid in England if it’s the traditional one (?), so that will have to be the new service - but the actual mass following the marriage will be a TLM. So can anyone shed any light on what determines the readings, prayers, music etc for the TLM when it’s being celebrated as a wedding mass? (I’m still quite new to the TLM, though I do love it.)
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Hello,

Not legal and valid if it’s the traditional one? That does not make sense to me. How a person marries (in the Church) is the same, whether you use the old or new ritual. You stand there and say the words the priest tells you to say. Those words are essentially the same. Secular law should not care one whit which ritual is used. I know that the Institute of Christ the Kind has a presence somewhere in England. They would certainly use the old ritual for marriages.

As for the ritual itself, you may note that the old ritual was arranged so that the wedding ritual was followed by the Mass. In the new ritual, it is in the middle of the Mass. As for the readings and prayers–you have no options. The priest should use the text as presented in the Missal (I think there is only one Mass for spouses in the 1962 Missal. The priest has to use it). Music: the choir can sing various hymns, as would be traditional during such a Mass.

Dan
 
Dulcie said:
Are there any online resources to explain the TLM wedding? My fiance and I are going to have a TLM service when we get married. The priest seems to think that we will have to have the words of the marriage itself in English to make it legal and valid (wedding will be in England), but that the rest of the mass will be in Latin.

So my question is, how much “choice” do we have over readings, music, prayers, words of the service etc - is it all completely fixed, or do we have some different options? (I don’t think our priest has done a TLM wedding before, so it’s a bit hard to get answers from him - I’d like to find some resources we can take to him and discuss.) When I’ve googled I’ve even found a couple of indications that there are different versions of the marriage service itself, but I can’t find any great resources. We would like the version of the service that includes “with my body I thee worship”, for example, and I’ve seen it mentioned as a “rare” version of the trad service, but I really want a clear, authoritative resource if possible that explains all the different choices to us, particularly as I will be organising the music.
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My wife and I were married in a TLM wedding. It was officiated by a diocesan priest. It was very beautiful, and I would highly recommend it!
 
dans0622 said:
Hello,

As for the ritual itself, you may note that the old ritual was arranged so that the wedding ritual was followed by the Mass. In the new ritual, it is in the middle of the Mass. As for the readings and prayers–you have no options. The priest should use the text as presented in the Missal (I think there is only one Mass for spouses in the 1962 Missal. The priest has to use it). Music: the choir can sing various hymns, as would be traditional during such a Mass.

Dan
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Thanks, that’s very helpful. Does anyone know of a resource on suitable music? Everything I can find is either for a standard (i.e. non-wedding) TLM, or for a NO wedding service. So, obviously I know we have to choose a sung mass setting for starters, but I’m not sure exactly where else music will be appropriate (and indeed what kind of texts we should choose from). We will have a music director, but he won’t know much about our options from a liturgical point of view so we have to do our own research.

Oh, and for a TLM, would it be inappropriate to have some congregational hymns?
 
AllSeasons said:
My wife and I were married in a TLM wedding. It was officiated by a diocesan priest. It was very beautiful, and I would highly recommend it!
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That’s lovely! Many congratulations to you and your wife!

I need to double-check whether we can have the old wedding service itself or just the mass - I will find out… I do really like the service as kindly linked by dans0622 above. (Although it does occur to me that some of our more liberally-minded friends and family might get a shock if they hear the priest read the “exhortation after marriage”, given how much emphasis it puts on wives being subject to their husbands and husbands being the head of their wives. 😛 )
 
dans0622 said:
Hello,

Not legal and valid if it’s the traditional one? That does not make sense to me. How a person marries (in the Church) is the same, whether you use the old or new ritual. You stand there and say the words the priest tells you to say. Those words are essentially the same. Secular law should not care one whit which ritual is used. I know that the Institute of Christ the Kind has a presence somewhere in England. They would certainly use the old ritual for marriages.

Dan
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Dan, that isn’t so hard for me to see. I remember hearing about a Persian couple that had to get married twice: once a traditional Persian wedding and once for the government to recognize.

I think what you might be able to do is see about getting a civil marriage maybe the day before the wedding so the government is happy, then have the official ceremony the next day. Not sure if that would work, but just a thought.
 
TxGodfollower said:
Dan, that isn’t so hard for me to see. I remember hearing about a Persian couple that had to get married twice: once a traditional Persian wedding and once for the government to recognize.

…
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Hello,

I had to do that myself (marry both in civil and ecclesiastical law) so I have no problem understanding it. Many civil governments do not recognize any religious marriage ceremony. That’s clear. What I don’t understand is why one Catholic ritual (the modern one) would be legal and valid but another one (the traditional one) would not be.

Dan
 
dans0622 said:
Hello,

I had to do that myself (marry both in civil and ecclesiastical law) so I have no problem understanding it. Many civil governments do not recognize any religious marriage ceremony. That’s clear. What I don’t understand is why one Catholic ritual (the modern one) would be legal and valid but another one (the traditional one) would not be.

Dan
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Maybe its a hold over from when England broke away from the Catholic Church? Some obscure law that prohibits the traditional Catholic wedding, but is so specific it doesn’t hinder the modern one.
 
TxGodfollower said:
Maybe its a hold over from when England broke away from the Catholic Church? Some obscure law that prohibits the traditional Catholic wedding, but is so specific it doesn’t hinder the modern one.
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Doubtful, at least since what I think is called the “Roman Catholic Relief Act” of 1829 became law.
 
Not to make too find a point of it, but most of the OP’s questions should be directed to the pastor, or if not the pastor, the priest who will be saying the wedding Mass and officiating at the marriage ceremony. Questions like “what music” are not based on the opinions of bloggers, but the one who presides over the ceremony. They have the final say, and it should be noted that where there is discretion, that discretion is subject to the pastor’s take on them.
 
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