To All Liberal Catholics

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Don_Machiavelli said:
No, this country’s laws will become more and more amoral as the decades pass.

It will reach a point where the government assigns particular men as birth-fathers, and assigns babies to working families that meet the government’s approval. The father figure will be pushed out of society completely, and I would not be surprised if eventually the government defines the family structure as two women raising children.

Eventually what will happen is society and the government will implode on itself, and private individual people will have to bring order from the chaos.
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You’re such a pessimist! I don’t things will need to get anywhere near that bad before the implosion!
 
I am not sure why the word “LIBERAL” in Catholicism became so negative. Maybe they are trying to equate politiocal liberalism into religious liberalism. Why must a person’s political views be a factor into his/her faith in GOD? Right wing conservatives are as bad as the very extreme liberals, right? correction? left? :D:D:D
 
je333 said:
I am not sure why the word “LIBERAL” in Catholicism became so negative.
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Abortion is a big part of that.

You’re right, though, we often conflate political liberalism and other types. The word has becomed so politically charged (at least here in the U.S.) that I think it is borderline useless, especially in religious discussions.
 
Joe_5859 said:
Abortion is a big part of that.

You’re right, though, we often conflate political liberalism and other types. The word has becomed so politically charged (at least here in the U.S.) that I think it is borderline useless, especially in religious discussions.
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Plus, political liberalism has different meanings depending upon where you are in the world. What is considered liberal in America (i.e regulation of business and stuff like that) would probably be considered moderate or maybe a little conservative in Europe.
 
MillTownCath said:
I can’t stand the fact that many people who are pro-life, and vote based solely on that issue, think that means they must adopt every conservative position on economics, immigration, defense, etc by default. Think independently folks. Nothing wrong with being somewhat partisan, but square your views independently and shake up the establishment around you.
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Or shape your views according to what the Church and bishops teach. 👍
 
Flavius_Aetius said:
For the sake of informing others, I’d like to hear in this thread why you believe being a Liberal Catholic does not automatically put one in a bad standing with the Church and its social doctrine.
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What do you mean by a Liberal Catholic? Are you referring to people who take "liberties’ with and bend Church teachings to ‘fit’ their needs?
Or do you mean "liberal’ in the US sense of right and left politics?
Personally, I find the Catholic Church to be very liberal, especially with regard to issues of social justice.
First…there is no greater example or template for what we (today) commonly refer to as a radical liberal than Jesus.
Re: issues such as feeding and clothing the poor, immigration, the death penalty, world debt, Imperialism, War…The Church’s teachings are very consistant with what we in the US commonly associate with left of center politics.
Even with regard to homosexuality, The three paragraphs that address this issue in The Catechism are extremely gentle and loving.
 
I think the OP is talking about morally Liberal, not politically liberal. A catholic liberal would be I suppose a morally liberal Catholic. A person or group of persons whom usually counter the churches’ position on sin with individual freedom, or calling the Church outdated…

1 Peter 2:16
Live as free people, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil…
 
4gsd said:
What do you mean by a Liberal Catholic? Are you referring to people who take "liberties’ with and bend Church teachings to ‘fit’ their needs?
Or do you mean "liberal’ in the US sense of right and left politics?
Personally, I find the Catholic Church to be very liberal, especially with regard to issues of social justice.
First…there is no greater example or template for what we (today) commonly refer to as a radical liberal than Jesus.
Re: issues such as feeding and clothing the poor, immigration, the death penalty, world debt, Imperialism, War…The Church’s teachings are very consistant with what we in the US commonly associate with left of center politics.
Even with regard to homosexuality, The three paragraphs that address this issue in The Catechism are extremely gentle and loving.
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Depends what you mean by social justice.
 
4gsd said:
What do you mean by a Liberal Catholic? Are you referring to people who take "liberties’ with and bend Church teachings to ‘fit’ their needs?
Or do you mean "liberal’ in the US sense of right and left politics?
Personally, I find the Catholic Church to be very liberal, especially with regard to issues of social justice.
First…there is no greater example or template for what we (today) commonly refer to as a radical liberal than Jesus.
Re: issues such as feeding and clothing the poor, immigration, the death penalty, world debt, Imperialism, War…The Church’s teachings are very consistant with what we in the US commonly associate with left of center politics.
Even with regard to homosexuality, The three paragraphs that address this issue in The Catechism are extremely gentle and loving.
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👍👍
 
4gsd said:
What do you mean by a Liberal Catholic? Are you referring to people who take "liberties’ with and bend Church teachings to ‘fit’ their needs?
Or do you mean "liberal’ in the US sense of right and left politics?
Personally, I find the Catholic Church to be very liberal, especially with regard to issues of social justice.
First…there is no greater example or template for what we (today) commonly refer to as a radical liberal than Jesus.
Re: issues such as feeding and clothing the poor, immigration, the death penalty, world debt, Imperialism, War…The Church’s teachings are very consistant with what we in the US commonly associate with left of center politics.
Even with regard to homosexuality, The three paragraphs that address this issue in The Catechism are extremely gentle and loving.
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You can not, as the Left seems to believe, fulfill ones obligation to take care of the poor and needy by voting for someone who promises to take someone else’s money to do it for you.

Similarly you don’t bring people to the Truth by affirming sinful behavior One should be gentle and loving to all sinners but never affirm their sin as Ok - another problem with the liberal philosophy
 
estesbob said:
You can not, as the Left seems to believe, fulfill ones obligation to take care of the poor and needy by voting for someone who promises to take someone else’s money to do it for you.

Similarly you don’t bring people to the Truth by affirming sinful behavior One should be gentle and loving to all sinners but never affirm their sin as Ok - another problem with the liberal philosophy
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Swiss_Guy said:
Depends what you mean by social justice.
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What I mean is that women’s “rights” (i.e “right” to murder innocent children and what not) could be called social “justice” along with gay “rights” and all of that stuff. Now, with that said, the Church is liberal with immigration, affirmative action, the death penalty, Imperialism, War, and (sort of with) the poor. I say sort of with the poor because the left wants to help them through the federal government, which doesn’t work very well, and the right wants to help the poor through private groups (hooray), but with absolutely no government help, and even possibly hurting them through regressive taxation (think Michele Bachmann). So that’s probably more moderate than anything. So really, the Church is moderate on these issues (conservative if you only consider the really big issues today).
 
4gsd said:
Even with regard to homosexuality, The three paragraphs that address this issue in The Catechism are extremely gentle and loving.
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Very true, but it would be called homophobic by the left, because it still says they shouldn’t be in “unions” or “marriage”.
 
estesbob said:
You can not, as the Left seems to believe, fulfill ones obligation to take care of the poor and needy by voting for someone who promises to take someone else’s money to do it for you.
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We are all called to help the poor and needy individually. In a democracy though, this can be done also through our voting. No, it does not discharge us of all responsibility, but it does, if we pay taxes, give direction to where our money is spent.

I have no idea how this plays out morally for those who pay nothing in income tax.
 
pnewton said:
We are all called to help the poor and needy individually. In a democracy though, this can be done also through our voting. No, it does not discharge us of all responsibility, but it does, if we pay taxes, give direction to where our money is spent.

I have no idea how this plays out morally for those who pay nothing in income tax.
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Voting does not discharge ANY of ones personal responsibility to help the poor and needy.
 
I disagree, if my vote helps the poor by putting in a person who is pro union and pro social welfare, then it has the effect of a greater good-When left to single people to help the poor, it has not EVER worked in the history of the world. That is unless you count almshouse’s and indentured servitude as appropriate answers to the dignity of the poor.

Look, abortion to us is a horror. Most if not all agree to this but to vote a person on this issue alone is wrong. I have serious doubts they ALL care about abortion but rather use it as a political “plank” then have no objections to death by state.

I was brought up under the “welfare” state. My dad got very sick and we could no longer support ourselves-My mom went to the church and while they wanted to help, they had limited resources (South Bronx early 60’s) My mom would get grocery money but never enough to pay rent-Thank the Lord we has a system that allowed us to get welfare-we eked by but we survived. the alternative was homelessness. Sadly, this is OK with certain politics: A survival of the fit mentality that we “choose” to be poor and if he only got a job!

Today, all my mom and dad’s kids have grown to be productive workers supporting families, college educated and each in human services from mental health to RN. We are a success story of government programs that have indeed worked despite those who blame current poverty on the very programs that help so many. (we will always have poor,programs or none)

So, we must vote with a real view of the overall record of the person. Do they espouse 'Pro life" while wanting war, death and “pull yerselves up from the bootstraps” care of the poor?

I vote my social conscience and having been there, always with an eye on the needy.

I took the name at my confirmation at age 45 of Thomas the doubter-Why? because while a firm believer in the Lord, I have doubts and will question. Has the Church never been wrong? Hmmm-mm Look at history. of course it has. I do question it but also, I do obey it with the keen mind the Lord gave me

Glen AKA TheSwan ( from the cello piece by Sant Saens)
 
Sorry to re post but an above post says the right wants to help the poor with “private” help

Could you please tell me what charity do you mean? The Church will give you a few dollars but will not pay rent. Maybe you mean the Salvation army? or Bill Gates? Whoops his money helps overseas. Where are these “private” programs?

Sorry about sounding sarcastic as I did mean too, but fact of history is we do a lousy job of helping the poor “privately” We do a bang up job of bailing out companies, giving huge subsidies to farmers and oil companies, supporting a military overblown with waste, imprisoning our sick with huge failures like DEA, need I go on?

I will jump on the right wing bandwagon with relish when, they REALLY have a plan for those without a voice-We have no “poor” lobbies instead we have monoplized radio that rants 24 hours on how the poor have ruined our country.

i am for less gov, anti abortion and do not believe in gay marriage but… The poor, disabled and elderly! Ah, what do you offer right wing? (please no 'trickle down, good for general bullmoose, good for the USA, threadbare, has not worked since hoover-non sense)

“feed my sheep, clothe my sheep, visit the sick, visit the prisons unto the least of my breahtren” Or, trust individuals to do it but please tell me how that’ll work out

Glen
 
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