to all Traditional Catholics

[mattm09]

On this forum I am more of a spectator than someone who participates, and over the time I’ve been viewing this forum and my judgments against Traditional Catholics and people in general on this forum have amassed. As important and beautiful as tradition is, I feel as though they have forgotten the reality of the love of Jesus Christ and have traded it for natural religiosity. I have been deeply offended by hostile attitudes taken on this forum, especially against the Catholics that worship according to the current Missal and not the Extraordinary Form. I ask this: are these forums really evangelizing with Christ as the light at the end of the tunnel? Or is it merely hot air vents for disgruntled Traditional Catholics? I must ask for the forgiveness of everyone on this forum now. I may have not spoken or acted much, but in my mind the judgments against all here are too much and putting me in deep sin.

“We are not Christians for what we do, we are Christians for what we have received” -Benedict XVI

 

[Rawb]

Ok, I’ll bite.

First, I’ll politely, emphasis on that politely, point out that you do not have to read these forums. If they cause you aggrevation, don’t read them. If they cause you to feel hostility towards your fellow Catholics, don’t read them.

Second, I’ll admit that some people here can be rude occasionally, just as on any forum. The anonymity of the internet leads many people, myself included, to say things that we may not be comfortable saying in real life.

Third, I’d mention that many Traditional Catholics are very strongly opiniated about our spirituality, but catch a LOT of flak about it from others. Other Catholics, other humans, people in the heirarchy and, especially, our bishops. Sometimes, yes, we need to vent and blow off steam. As we are a minority, and sometimes cannot actually meet with a fellow traditionalist, we come online and vent to one another. Venting is a healthy process.

Fourth, I’d mention also that, in my experience, Traditionalism attracts people with a thick skin (possibly because of point number three, thin skinned Catholics give up fighting against the flow). As such our jokes, comments, and debates may appear outright rude to an outsider. As with all people, you have to understand the personality of the person it is coming from.

Finally, I’d like to point out threads such as:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=295654

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=298755

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=299314

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=299197

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=296892

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=290062

and the multitude of other threads that deal with Traditional Catholicism, but aren’t full of those hot air vents for disgruntled Traditional Catholics that you’re concerned with. You find what you look for.

 

[Walking_Home]

A Neocatechumenal — “disturbed” by Tranditional Catholicism. What a surprise —Not.

 

[mattm09]

Ok, I’ll bite.

First, I’ll politely, emphasis on that politely, point out that you do not have to read these forums. If they cause you aggrevation, don’t read them. If they cause you to feel hostility towards your fellow Catholics, don’t read them.

Second, I’ll admit that some people here can be rude occasionally, just as on any forum. The anonymity of the internet leads many people, myself included, to say things that we may not be comfortable saying in real life.

Third, I’d mention that many Traditional Catholics are very strongly opiniated about our spirituality, but catch a LOT of flak about it from others. Other Catholics, other humans, people in the heirarchy and, especially, our bishops. Sometimes, yes, we need to vent and blow off steam. As we are a minority, and sometimes cannot actually meet with a fellow traditionalist, we come online and vent to one another. Venting is a healthy process.

Fourth, I’d mention also that, in my experience, Traditionalism attracts people with a thick skin (possibly because of point number three, thin skinned Catholics give up fighting against the flow). As such our jokes, comments, and debates may appear outright rude to an outsider. As with all people, you have to understand the personality of the person it is coming from.

Finally, I’d like to point out threads such as:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=295654

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=298755

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=299314

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=299197

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=296892

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=290062

and the multitude of other threads that deal with Traditional Catholicism, but aren’t full of those hot air vents for disgruntled Traditional Catholics that you’re concerned with. You find what you look for.

I read these forums because the apologetics section is excellent for those questions that may arise from non Catholic friends that may be hard to answer. The intriguing and deep history of the faith is what is inspiring my possible vocation, as I look in certain sections of this forum to deepen my knowledge of the faith.

I’m just saying this because I’m afraid those who may be called to partake in the Body of Christ may be offended by the dry and cynical atmosphere of some of the forums.

To Walking_home, I ask for your forgiveness. At first I was offended that you classified me as a “Neocatechumenal.” I realize that I may not know as much about the faith as you. Instead of having tension, how about we call each other “brother” instead of “Neocatechumenal” or “Traditional” as we are all united by Christ as living parts of the Church?

I guess I can’t even keep my hostility from showing. I AM the worst one here when it comes to pride and arrogance. Many a priest has told me that in confession! Pray for me, all of you, that I may learn to serve the Lord in humility, simplicity, and praise.

 

[Walking_Home]

I will pray for you mattm09. I will pray that our Lord opens your eyes so you can see what Arguello and Hernandez really are — and the damage they have done and are doing to the Church.

 

[reggieM]

I guess I can’t even keep my hostility from showing. I AM the worst one here when it comes to pride and arrogance. Many a priest has told me that in confession! Pray for me, all of you, that I may learn to serve the Lord in humility, simplicity, and praise.

I can understand your struggle.
You offered an honest post about how people in this forum attack others and set themselves apart by criticising people who attend the Novus Ordo, etc.

Then you get responses: 1. Defending the lack of charity as “blowing off steam”, and suggesting that you leave and go elsewhere and 2. Attacking you for your background in the faith.

So, your point is quite valid and we can see truth of what you said right before our eyes.

 

[nmoerbeek]

On this forum I am more of a spectator than someone who participates, and over the time I’ve been viewing this forum and my judgments against Traditional Catholics and people in general on this forum have amassed. As important and beautiful as tradition is, I feel as though they have forgotten the reality of the love of Jesus Christ and have traded it for natural religiosity. I have been deeply offended by hostile attitudes taken on this forum, especially against the Catholics that worship according to the current Missal and not the Extraordinary Form. I ask this: are these forums really evangelizing with Christ as the light at the end of the tunnel? Or is it merely hot air vents for disgruntled Traditional Catholics? I must ask for the forgiveness of everyone on this forum now. I may have not spoken or acted much, but in my mind the judgments against all here are too much and putting me in deep sin.

“We are not Christians for what we do, we are Christians for what we have received” -Benedict XVI

Peace be with you

 

[Walking_Home]

I can understand your struggle.
You offered an honest post about how people in this forum attack others and set themselves apart by criticising people who attend the Novus Ordo, etc.

Then you get responses: 1. Defending the lack of charity as “blowing off steam”, and suggesting that you leave and go elsewhere and 2. Attacking you for your background in the faith.

So, your point is quite valid and we can see truth of what you said right before our eyes.

---

Take it as you wish reggieM—but I have said it before and I will continue saying it. The Neocatechumenal Way is of great danger to the Faith.

 

[mattm09]

I will pray for you mattm09. I will pray that our Lord opens your eyes so you can see what Arguello and Hernandez really are — and the damage they have done and are doing to the Church.

Well through what they started they saved my family from destruction and kept me in the Church.

I think the Vocation Meeting with Arguello (which the Pope visited that morning, and presided over by Cardinal Pell) the day after the World Youth Day Mass didn’t do too much damage either. I think about 2000 people stood up for vocations.

I’m not sure I consider my walk towards Christ is damaging. I’d lose all hope if that was true. Even though the Neocatechumenal Way is completely valid, Canon Law says that it can be broken for the salvation of even only ONE soul!

 

[Walking_Home]

Well through what they started they saved my family from destruction and kept me in the Church.

I think the Vocation Meeting with Arguello (which the Pope visited that morning, and presided over by Cardinal Pell) the day after the World Youth Day Mass didn’t do too much damage either. I think about 2000 people stood up for vocations.

I’m not sure I consider my walk towards Christ is damaging. I’d lose all hope if that was true. Even though the Neocatechumenal Way is completely valid, Canon Law says that it can be broken for the salvation of even only ONE soul!

---

You are just repeating the “Neocatechumenal” party line. It has been drilled and drilled into your head-- that the “Way” --“saved” you and your family. The “vocations” only serve to further Arguellos “ideology” and cause harm to the Faith.

 

[mattm09]

---

You are just repeating the “Neocatechumenal” party line. It has been drilled and drilled into your head-- that the “Way” --“saved” you and your family. The “vocations” only serve to further Arguellos “ideology” and cause harm to the Faith.

I am sorry but you cannot experience what I have experienced. I am telling you, CHRIST with His CHURCH, through the Way, has kept my parents from a divorce, took them off birth control, put my mother back in the arms of the Blessed Mother, has given the world the gift of 3 of my 5 siblings, has preserved my sexuality, and is giving me a calling of some sort! I am sorry that it is drilled into your head that the Way is some conspiracy against the Church! Yes, the vocations do serve Kiko’s ideology, which in fact is the ideology of the Catholic Church! I cannot deny the work the Lord has done and is doing for my family, my community, the holy men and women with vocations, and the Church as a whole.

I am not being hostile right now. I am speaking the TRUTH.

 

[Walking_Home]

I am sorry but you cannot experience what I have experienced. I am telling you, CHRIST with His CHURCH, through the Way, has kept my parents from a divorce, took them off birth control, put my mother back in the arms of the Blessed Mother, has given the world the gift of 3 of my 5 siblings, has preserved my sexuality, and is giving me a calling of some sort! I am sorry that it is drilled into your head that the Way is some conspiracy against the Church! Yes, the vocations do serve Kiko’s ideology, which in fact is the ideology of the Catholic Church! I cannot deny the work the Lord has done and is doing for my family, my community, the holy men and women with vocations, and the Church as a whole.

**I am not being hostile right now. I am speaking the **TRUTH.

---

You are speaking the “truth” the way Arguello and his “catechists” have convinced you to see it. Our Lord warned us about wolves in sheep’s clothing and false prophets.

 

[mattm09]

---

You are speaking the “truth” the way Arguello and his “catechists” have convinced you to see it. Our Lord warned us about wolves in sheep’s clothing and false prophets.

I don’t think I need to argue anymore. The statutes have full approval of the Vatican. Enough said. If you want to choose to believe Arguello is a false prophet, I’m sorry you do. If it’s bringing and keeping people in the Church and inspiring life and vocations, I’m for it.

 

[Walking_Home]

I don’t think I need to argue anymore. The statutes have full approval of the Vatican. Enough said. If you want to choose to believe Arguello is a false prophet, I’m sorry you do. If it’s bringing and keeping people in the Church and inspiring life and vocations, I’m for it.

---

I am not arguing — If I didn’t love our Lord and the Church–I wouldn’t give a hoot about the damage Arguello is doing. If I didn’t care for the people who have fallen under Arguello’s deception — I wouldn’t pray that our Lord clears their head so they will really see Arguello and Hernandez for the what they are.

 

[Cruikshank_s]

Intrigued… Couldn’t help but check out what “The Way” is, never heard of it. Looked it up, and well, I’m not joining

The Neocatechumenate‘s mass contains serious omissions from the normal public liturgy of the Church. For example, on Kiko’s orders the creed is not recited. The Orate, Fratres is omitted on Kiko’s orders, because it mentions sacrifice and Kiko denies the Mass is a sacrifice. The Agnus Dei has similarly been suppressed by him because of the reference to taking “away the sins of the world.” Kiko denies that Christ takes away sin because of his belief that man is for ever and always ontologically “zero plus sin”. The Lavobo (washing of hands) and Domine, non sum dignus…et sanabitur anima mea are both omitted on Kiko’s orders. This is again because of Kiko’s theology. The Lavabo is a symbol of God purifying us, but God cannot purify us because like in Luther’s theology we are unredeemable. The Domine, non sum dignus…et sanabitur anima mea is omitted again because this prayer suggests that Christ can sanctify us, when in Kiko’s theology we are and always will be “zero plus sin” and there is nothing that we or grace or God can do about it.

Frankly it doesn’t sound all that Catholic. I know it has done a lot for your family and brought you to seek greater holiness. That’s wonderful! May God bless you and preserve your desire for holiness! But I can’t help but sense a sense of denial of Catholic Tradition. We have a right to exist too ya know. Plus I found it weird that “The Way” thinks that true Catholicism died out looong ago and only fully came back to its roots with Vatican II. I’m a traditional Catholic who lovingly supports Vatican II, it’s where I first found God. But to deny the authenticity of well over a thousand years? Dunno.

I’m sorry you were offended by our sometimes harsh speaking of our minds (I have sometimes as well), charity I think must always be remembered when posting. We all error, it’s our nature. God bless and keep safe!

 

[RCWarrior821]

walking home…

How are are they damaging the Church if the Vatican has already approved it?

Don’t we follow the same Church established by the same God on the same person?

Why all these disagreements?

 

[Walking_Home]

walking home…

How are are they damaging the Church if the Vatican has already approved it?

Don’t we follow the same Church established by the same God on the same person?

Why all these disagreements?

---

Arguello has had over 40 years to infiltrate the Church. To make “friends” in high places. The Japanese bishops had to appeal to Rome because the Neocatechumenals were trying to take the diocese right from under them. Arguello is what the gospel has warned us about – a false prophet/wolf in sheep’s clothing-- who has been able to deceive even our Popes.

 

[Dauphin]

walking home…

How are are they damaging the Church if the Vatican has already approved it?

Don’t we follow the same Church established by the same God on the same person?

Why all these disagreements?

The Church has made poor decisions in its past. At one point, the Pope approved the “sale” of indulgences knowing the capacity for abuse. Even the prescriptions of Canon Law can be imprudent.

Simply throwing up the argument “but the hierarchy said yes, and they’re infallible!” reveals a complete lack of understanding of the nature of the Church’s Divine protection. It’s a baseless argument.

In this case, fighting Aruguello’s destructive, anti-Catholic ideology is a duty of Catholics, despite the fact that the movement has permission to exist.

 

[jam070406]

The Church has made poor decisions in its past. At one point, the Pope approved the “sale” of indulgences knowing the capacity for abuse. Even the prescriptions of Canon Law can be imprudent.

Simply throwing up the argument “but the hierarchy said yes, and they’re infallible!” reveals a complete lack of understanding of the nature of the Church’s Divine protection. It’s a baseless argument.

In this case, fighting Aruguello’s destructive, anti-Catholic ideology is a duty of Catholics, despite the fact that the movement has permission to exist.

I hate to sound so ignorant
but…
What does this movement teach?
I truly have no clue.

 

[FK04US]

The Church has made poor decisions in its past. At one point, the Pope approved the “sale” of indulgences knowing the capacity for abuse. Even the prescriptions of Canon Law can be imprudent.

Simply throwing up the argument “but the hierarchy said yes, and they’re infallible!” reveals a complete lack of understanding of the nature of the Church’s Divine protection. It’s a baseless argument.

In this case, fighting Aruguello’s destructive, anti-Catholic ideology is a duty of Catholics, despite the fact that the movement has permission to exist.

So you guys know more than the Pope and the Roman curia? Are you guys the Lutherans of the 21st century? hahaha … No offense, but if I had to choose whom to believe in the Catholic Church, I know that the Holy Father goes first in the list, by far. And I would think that Traditional Catholics would be loyal to the Pope!

Peace.