To all who don't believe in the Holy Trinity

  • Thread starter Thread starter nablaise
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
N

nablaise

Guest
Don’t you agree that:
  • there can not be ‘son’ without ‘father’?
  • there can not be ‘father’ without ‘son’?
  • ‘father’ and ‘son’ can only exist simultaneously and none cane exist before the other?
  • there can not be perfect bond without ‘Holy Spirit’?
  • God has no beginig and not end and is always perfect?
  • Creation glorify God by magnifying his glory and proclaiming his ‘name’?
  • therefore fatherhood and sonship in creatures are the ‘copy’ not the ‘original’ and Creation magnify God in its ways of being?
Blessings!
 
Surely the Father can exist without the Son if one does not believe the Son is begotten by the Father.

Maybe I’m misunderstanding your logic though :o
 
I’ve talked with muslims about the trinity and they’re convinced that the trinity doctrine is blashemy. As God doesn’t need to beget anything. They say the trinity wasn’t mentioned in the bible and thus its an innovation or corruption. So, they believe there was a legitament church in the beginning those that followed christ but they fell into corruption by Paul. This is why they believe the bible is corrupted and why the koran revelation was needed. I tried explaining it to them that God is Triune (Father, Son, Holy Spirit, 3 persons 1 Divine substance) but they just got mad and closed the thread on their website.

If there are any better educated Christians out there maybe you’d have better luck.

I hope I won’t be violating any rules but the site is www.islamicboard.com

peace be with you
 
Well, some of it I can agree with, but it doesn’t change my view. What I can not agree with is that they talked to themselves, even prayed to themselves. That is more trust in a human convention than I can muster…

james
 
coolduude said:
Surely the Father can exist without the Son if one does not believe the Son is begotten by the Father.

Maybe I’m misunderstanding your logic though :o
Click to expand...
you mean the identity of God depends on what we believe? Surely not.

'Begotten does not mean ‘created’.
One who is begotten but not created existed always since there can not be fatherhood without sonship and vice-versa…
and God is one but not solitary for God is love
 
gmcbroom said:
I’ve talked with muslims about the trinity and they’re convinced that the trinity doctrine is blashemy. As God doesn’t need to beget anything. They say the trinity wasn’t mentioned in the bible and thus its an innovation or corruption. So, they believe there was a legitament church in the beginning those that followed christ but they fell into corruption by Paul. This is why they believe the bible is corrupted and why the koran revelation was needed. I tried explaining it to them that God is Triune (Father, Son, Holy Spirit, 3 persons 1 Divine substance) but they just got mad and closed the thread on their website.

If there are any better educated Christians out there maybe you’d have better luck.

I hope I won’t be violating any rules but the site is www.islamicboard.com

peace be with you
Click to expand...
It is a matter of understanding love.
God is love, therefore one yet never solitary.
Love unites in unbrakable bonds:
He is ‘father’ because He has the ‘son’
He is ‘son’ because he has a ‘father’:
we have inseparable identities one conditioning the other
also God was never single nor ever married:
these are things that exists in creatures, in time.
God is always Father, therefore alwys with a/the Son

when we are begotten we enter a domain that have always existed: the domain of the Son/the Begotten.
only we ‘become’ begotten while He always Is.
Creatures ‘become’ but God ‘is’
God bring us into his domain of being/existance.
 
confusedius said:
Well, some of it I can agree with, but it doesn’t change my view. What I can not agree with is that they talked to themselves, even prayed to themselves. That is more trust in a human convention than I can muster…

james
Click to expand...
what do you mean by ‘pray’ and ‘talk’ ?
 
Genesis- “Let us make man in OUR own image.” Seems like there was more than one at the creation of man.
 
rdscheirer said:
Genesis- “Let us make man in OUR own image.” Seems like there was more than one at the creation of man.
Click to expand...
yes. It also said: man,…male and female He created them. I see this amplying that male+female = man. Of course in Man we have three persons: father, mother, and child. These three are contained in the two bodies when united in love, in God.

God bless
 
gmcbroom said:
I’ve talked with muslims about the trinity and they’re convinced that the trinity doctrine is blashemy. As God doesn’t need to beget anything. They say the trinity wasn’t mentioned in the bible and thus its an innovation or corruption. So, they believe there was a legitament church in the beginning those that followed christ but they fell into corruption by Paul. This is why they believe the bible is corrupted and why the koran revelation was needed. I tried explaining it to them that God is Triune (Father, Son, Holy Spirit, 3 persons 1 Divine substance) but they just got mad and closed the thread on their website.

If there are any better educated Christians out there maybe you’d have better luck.

I hope I won’t be violating any rules but the site is www.islamicboard.com

peace be with you
Click to expand...
Usual Muslim problem. They use the Bible when it suits them and when it doesn’t they say it’s corrupted. 🤷

MJ
 
It is quite pointless talking to Muslims or Hindus about the Trinity.

Much better to say God is One - not Three - and this is what all Abrahamic religions believe. That is what Christians believe . There are not three Gods.

God (the Father) loves humanity (us) beyond all human understanding. The manifestation of that love is Jesus (the Son). The relationship between God and this Love (Jesus) is the Holy Spirit which constantly sustains and maintains the Universe in existence. A simple analogy is a triangle; a triangle cannot exist without 3 sides - so the Godhead has 3 aspects.
 
tobbias88 said:
It is quite pointless talking to Muslims or Hindus about the Trinity.

Much better to say God is One - not Three - and this is what all Abrahamic religions believe. That is what Christians believe . There are not three Gods.

God (the Father) loves humanity (us) beyond all human understanding. The manifestation of that love is Jesus (the Son). The relationship between God and this Love (Jesus) is the Holy Spirit which constantly sustains and maintains the Universe in existence. A simple analogy is a triangle; a triangle cannot exist without 3 sides - so the Godhead has 3 aspects.
Click to expand...
The trouble with an analogy like a Triangle (or any other analogy for that matter) is not a spiritual way to explain the Trinity IMHO. We should try only to explain it the way it is read in it’s context as it is in the Bible. Using God’s Word is the safest and strengthens our own beliefs.

Just my two cents.

MJ
 
yes, I agree on your point about not using the triangle.
I once heard Dinesh Dsouza use it in a debate with a Muslim.
I don’t remember the rebuke but it was quite humiliating.

The thing is, it is man who was made in the image of God not triangles or other objects although they also glorify him and it is good to point it out.
 
@gmcbroom

I went to that muslim forum and registered.
one thing I was reminded so far is how blessed we are to have the fullness of the truth. I have seen many discussions halted by statements that we are not allowed to ask/talk/know beyond this or that line. I hear this line of reasoning from my protestant friends as well. It always come up when people unknowledge their ignorance on a point. The problem is, they often try to tell you that you can’t know it as well…
in Catholicism, individuals generally know that even when they don’t know the answer, someone in the wide Church knows, why because the Church has the fullness of the truth.
 
The problem with the trinity isn’t the arguments for or against the trinity.

The problem with the trinity, as I see it, is that no one knows what it is - not even the people who say they believe in the trinity.

So we have a lot of people running around talking about square circles, but no one is able to envision a square circle.

What is the trinity? It’s not a mystery - Angela Lansbury hasn’t solved it on Murder, She Wrote. A mystery - by definition is solvable, whereas the mystery of the trinity suffers from being unsolvable by the human mind.

Ultimately, how can you believe that which you cannot express without contradiction?
 
tobbias88 said:
It is quite pointless talking to Muslims or Hindus about the Trinity.

Much better to say God is One - not Three - and this is what all Abrahamic religions believe. That is what Christians believe . There are not three Gods.

God (the Father) loves humanity (us) beyond all human understanding. The manifestation of that love is Jesus (the Son). The relationship between God and this Love (Jesus) is the Holy Spirit which constantly sustains and maintains the Universe in existence. A simple analogy is a triangle; a triangle cannot exist without 3 sides - so the Godhead has 3 aspects.
Click to expand...
Hi

Just one thought to Hinduis and the Holy Trinity:
Actually, I think it’s fairly easy to explain to a Hindu the Trinity:
Their Creator-God Vishnu also came to the Earth as Krishna (compare Bhagavad-Gita). Well, and I am sure that they also believe in something like the Holy Spirit, I mean in a Spirit of God.

So actually, IMO, it’s far easier to explain the Trinity to a Hindu than to a Muslim. 😉

Actually, I see the problem more with their Polytheismus. I believe it’s quite likely, if you tell them about YHW and Jesus Christ that they will simply add Him to their Pantheon (and this consists out of about one Million differnt Gods!). 😉 [Like the Romans did with all the Gods of the peoples they conquered. ;)]

In Christ,
 
Esdra said:
Hi

Just one thought to Hinduis and the Holy Trinity:
Actually, I think it’s fairly easy to explain to a Hindu the Trinity:
Their Creator-God Vishnu also** came to the Earth as** Krishna (compare Bhagavad-Gita). Well, and I am sure that they also believe in something like the Holy Spirit, I mean in a Spirit of God.

So actually, IMO, it’s far easier to explain the Trinity to a Hindu than to a Muslim. 😉
Click to expand...
This is NOT the doctrine of the trinity in the RCC. This is what is called modalism: one God, three forms.
 
VeritasLuxMea said:
This is NOT the doctrine of the trinity in the RCC. This is what is called modalism: one God, three forms.
Click to expand...
Well, but it’d be an attempt to try to explain the Trinity to a Hindu, especially if he is worshipping Vishnu or Krishna, wouldn’t it?

But I guess you are right, Krishna is full God and not God AND Human like Jesus was/is.

Nevertheless, IMO, the Bhagavad Gita is worth reading. Interesting peace of literature I would say. 😉 🙂
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top