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turtle18
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When you die, how will you justify your beliefs to God? Forget all the political discourse, what would you say to God?
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Newbie2
Guest
“Could you turn down the heat down here, please?”
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Nechasin
Guest
It’s not my fault.
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Benedictus
Guest
If killing were wrong, God wouldn’t have done it over a million times in the Bible.
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wanner47
Guest
Killing isn’t always wrong (e.g., capital punishment). Murder is. That’s why there’s a commandment against it.
God never murdered anyone.
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KinseyMcGuire
Guest
That’s a very important question, Turtle.
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SoCalRC
Guest
Frankly, after reading Matt 25:31-46 or Luke 10:25-37, I’m a lot more concerned about how I can justify my own admission through the “narrow opening” of salvation than anything else.
Luke 15:11-32 and Luke 18:9-14 seem to suggest that is how it should be. Pope Benedict suggests that we refer to the former as a story of two sons.
Luke 15:11-32 and Luke 18:9-14 seem to suggest that is how it should be. Pope Benedict suggests that we refer to the former as a story of two sons.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
I don’t see how it can be done.
Surely no Catholic can harbor a “pro-choice” belief unknowing that the Church rejects abortion as one of the most serious of sins.
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frankadams
Guest
Using modern concepts, I think of some of the Founding Fathers whose work I respect and wonder how they might have answered the question: “How will you justify slavery before God? The buying and selling of human beings? Thousands dying every year in squalid ships? The forced breeding of human beings? The rape (Thomas Jefferson) of human beings?”
I respect many of our Founding Fathers and I cannot convince myself that they had nothing but evil in their hearts, that they were people with absolutely no concern for human beings. Perhaps they had some sort of response before God Perhaps their ignorance and misguided consciences constituted obstacles to their freedom. How God responded in his mercy and justice is unknown to us all.
The same may apply to some of the pro-aborts out there. Maybe they are not evil people, just people who don’t understand the depravity of what they defend. I pray that one day our country will be able to look back at abortion in the same way that we now look back on slavery, that is, as something that we somehow used to allow.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
Just for the record, Thomas Jefferson didn’t rape anyone. Some of Sally Hemming’s descendants do bear a marker on the Y-chromosome that Thomas Jefferson inherited from his grandfather. But that doesn’t prove Thomas Jefferson fathered any of her children.
There were about 20 men living within a few miles of Charlottesville at the time. When the accusation against Thomas Jefferson was made during his lifetime, all evidence pointed to Randolph Jefferson as the father of one of Sally Hemming’s children. Randolph had the same maker on the Y-chromosome.
The DNA analysis adds nothing to what was already known.
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frankadams
Guest
The way I read the “mainstream media” coverage following the DNA evxamination led me to believe that he had fathered a child by here. I apologize if that conclusion is inaccurate.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
It was deliberately slanted that way. As you may recall, there was another President in trouble for hanky-panky, and the idea was to take the heat off him by claiming Jefferson did about the same thing.
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SoCalRC
Guest
That is some BIG conspiracy. We have a DNA study in 1998 and three in 2000, then the Jefferson Foundation appointed committee that concluded paternity of Hemings six children was undoubtedly Jefferson’s alone:
monticello.org/plantation/hemingscontro/appendixj.html
A year later, the Thomas Jefferson Heritage Soceity offered an alternative interpretation of the data:
tjheritage.org/scholars.html
However, the National Geneology Soceity Quarterly published additoinal research and sided with the majority of previous research. I can’t find that article online, but there is a reference to the work here:
loc.gov/loc/lcib/0205/hemings.html
Imagine all that advance planning just to distract the public from Newt’s torrid affair while impeaching the president!
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vern_humphrey
Guest
Three points:
- The DNA evidence does not prove Thomas Jefferson fathered a child by Sally Hemming. It only proves a Jefferson male did – and the evidence at the time pointed at Randolph Jefferson.
- The timing of the announcement – and the claim that it was Thomas Jefferson – was indeed political.
- Newt Gingrich was not one of the prosecutors at the Impeachment Trial.
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SoCalRC
Guest
Regarding 1, it isn’t my field, I can only note that that is only the concensus of one commission, and its members were far from unanimous in their findings.
Regarding 2, what timing are you talking about 1998, 2000, 2001, 2002, or 2003? Seems to me to be a pretty steady flow of research, and reaction to prior research.
Do you actually have any evidence to support this accusation, or is it another thing you just ‘know’?
Regarding #3, that is a red herring. Gingrich was Speaker of the House, he would have been inelligible to serve as a House manager. But no impeachment effort could have reached the floor without his support.
Since the 1998 study actually started in 1994 and culminated about the time Newt was adamanently lying about his exploits (he has since publicly conceded that he lied), it seemed as good a fit as any. He was widely considered a ‘mastermind’, and certainly has hutzpah. Remember when GOP congressman Mark Foley’s penchant for congressional pages finally forced him out? Gingrich made mutiple public appearances and wrote a newspaper editorial claiming that ‘dems are worse’ in response. We only found out later that red flags about Foley’s conduct with minors were brought to his attention back when he was Speaker of the House.
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vern_humphrey
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Thank you for making my point for me.
The initial report was trumpeted during the impeachment era – does that give you a clue as to when the claim was made that the DNA “prooved” Thomas Jefferson fathered a child on Sally Hemming.
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Meathead
Guest
Please stay on topic.
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ALLGIRLS
Guest
Yeah, this thread is supposed to be about abortion.
I’m not pro-choice, but I think of a couple of responses.
The "personally opposed, but"s might say “I didn’t want to impose my beliefs on others, that was between them and You.”
The radical pro-aborts would say “It was the only way to acheive true equality” (after they say “Oh, no, You really do exist?!”).
The real question is, of course, what will God say to THEM in response?
In Christ,
Ellen
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BlaineTog
Guest
I’d imagine they’d say something like, “I’m sorry, but when I looked at the evidence, it really did look like it wasn’t a person until birth,” or possibly “Whoops, sorry, looks like I placed the rights of the mother over the rights of the child.” Given that we’re fuzzy on the details of how things go after death, I’m not really sure.
God doesn’t cause death, he only decides when it happens.
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