To attend or not attend a wedding, Part 2

[EnglishTeacher]

So I had started a thread a month or so ago regarding whether or not to attend the upcoming ceremonies of my husband’s Catholic family members who are marrying in a civil ceremony. (Do we attend or send gifts for upcoming invalid weddings? - #53) I would have just posted this on the original conversation but it has been locked as an old thread.

The deadline for the RSVP is coming up, so we have to decide soon. My new question is this: For those of you who faced the decision of whether to attend the invalid wedding ceremony of a fellow Catholic, did you also encourage the couple in some way to convalidate their marriage in the Church? Part of me wishes we could encourage them in that direction, but I don’t know if there is any way we could do it without coming across as presumptuous or interfering. Probably not, but thought I would throw the question out there . . . .

 

[TechieGuy]

but I don’t know if there is any way we could do it without coming across as presumptuous or interfering

There isn’t…

These people are presumably intelligent enough to know what they are doing and if a Sacramental Marriage was something that was important to them, they’d be getting married according to canonical form.

But they aren’t, which suggests they aren’t Serious Catholics like you are…most people aren’t.

So wish them well, pray for them, and don’t turn their happy event into something unpleasant, such as them making it clear to you that Catholicism isn’t something that is important in their lives.

 

[pianistclare]

I have come to terms with the fact that there are going to always be people whose beliefs do not match mine.
If it were ME, I would not be concerned about “scandal” as most of the people there will not be practicing Catholics.
Indeed, most of them will not even know you are Catholic.

It boils down to:
Do you wish them well?
Do you want to celebrate with them?
The invitation was to share a special event in their lives (and thank God they are not simply shacking up).

I am hoping that you can be joyful about their union EVEN THOUGH it is not a ceremony you approve of with regards to faith.

It’s their wedding.
Can’t you be happy for them?
Let God sort it out.

You will come across as rigid.
There are CAFers that think that is OK.
But rigidity never converted anyone In fact, people dig in their heels in the face of such.

Think hard.
Are these people important to you?

I can’t believe this is still being debated. If you don’t’ want to go, don’t go.
But I would go. Catholics are permitted to go to family events held at other churches.
We just can’t receive communion or anything like that there
But we can go, and be cordial.

 

[TheLittleLady]

IIRC your husband is not super close with them, you see each other at family reunions but not as “personal social” things.

I’d simply RSVP with regrets, send a gift card for a nice restaurant and have a Mass said for them.

 

[Gwendolen]

I don’t think the wedding day would be the day to do this.

If you want to witness and encourage them, I would establish a relationship where a sacramental marriage is a topic of conversation first, and encourage slowly over time, staring with other aspects of faith. I would not lead with this. If they are not warm to the topic, they will not warm to the suggestion, so if this is the case I would drop it.

I would go to the wedding to support their marriage, and continue to support it afterwards. Maybe when and if they have kids, their faith will be more important to them.

 

[pianistclare]

Being kind to people of other faiths is not sinful.
In fact, it models true, Catholic, merciful behavior.
Love one another.
If Christ had not shown mercy to the pagans, the Pharisees, and others, Christianity would not be all over the world.This is a chance to model Christian fellowship.

 

[pianistclare]

You really believe that?
That Christ would rather she stay away because they are not Catholic?
Wow.
With that outlook, one shoudl never leave the house. Maintaining relationships is important. Especially if we pray for their eventual RETURN TO THE CHURCH.
I’m out
This thread is just too harsh for me.
She’s not leaving any principals anywhere.

Before his death on the cross, Jesus gave his disciples a new commandment: “Love one another. As I have loved you, so you also should love one another” (John 13:34).

 

[QwertyGirl]

But we don’t put our own “principles at the door” to show kindness

I do sometimes. But kindness is actually one of my core principles.

I am agnostic, though, so I don’t expect you to agree with me.

 

[EnglishTeacher]

That Christ would rather she stay away because they are not Catholic?

They are Catholic; that is the issue.

But I wasn’t so much looking for opinions anymore on whether to attend the wedding (we are leaning towards going); rather I was mainly asking this time around whether there is a good way to encourage them at some point to get their marriage convalidated in the Church. Sorry if that wasn’t clear.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

I went to my brother’s weddings. They were all raised Catholic but left because the church harmed our family (I’ve talked about it before). I do not blame them and I understand it. None were married in a church, or by a minister nevermind in a Catholic Church.

With one of my brothers after many years he is coming to terms with the Catholic Church…and atleast some religion…enough to raise his kids to believe in Jesus. My two other brothers delt with alot more “hate” from Catholics for their choices and are no where near believing in God, nevermind comming back to the Church.

Our actions matter

 

[thelibrarian]

I would decide if this is a hill you want to die on.

If you do decide to not attend because its a civil ceremony, you miss out on being a Catholic witness in their life – who knows, they could have their marriage convalidated later if they are both Catholic.

If you did not want to go to “object” a marriage - then don’t attend a wedding of a 16 year old, a severe age gap wedding or a same sex wedding where you reject the union categorically.

The time to shepherd someone is during the courtship, not after the invites have been received. Any “objection” at this point will be taken as you object to their choice of spouse.
If you do not wish to attend, gracefully decline and if questioned, you have another obligation, but like I say, the time to shepherd them has long passed. But are you looking for someone to say ‘you should object’ - well - it depends on what kind of relationship you hope to have with them in the future.

 

[Elf01]

In my situation I mentioned a dispensation when I found out that the marriage was going to be invalid.

Still haven’t mentioned a convalidation but they have had their first child baptized (was hoping that the Priest may encourage them to convalidate when that happened but it never came up apparently).

I want to bring it up but have not decided how yet. Maybe mention it may be nice to have their marriage blessed around some anniversary.

 

[Reuben_J]

It is their wedding. If you want to attend, it should be solely based on that.

As to whether you could advise them to convalid their marriage - that is a good idea. If your relationship with them involves some spiritual matter, yes, there’s no question about it, go ahead. On the other hand, if there is none and they are not open to the suggestion, which you’d probably have known, then you have to be more tactful and perhaps try to inch them slowly to the subject until it is alright to bring it up.

It is about being wise (like a fox).

You do not want to make a mistake as interfering with their affair, which could backfire to increase their resistance as due to the pressure of an in-law.

God bless.

 

[Clementine14]

For those of you who faced the decision of whether to attend the invalid wedding ceremony of a fellow Catholic, did you also encourage the couple in some way to convalidate their marriage in the Church? Part of me wishes we could encourage them in that direction, but I don’t know if there is any way we could do it without coming across as presumptuous or interfering.

No, we did not. The couples whose weddings we went to in this situation were not close enough to us that it would have been appropriate saying anything, and even if we were, I don’t think we would have. If they wanted to be married in the church, they would be.

I think the best thing to do is live out your marriage and faith and hope that one day it sparks something in other people.

 

[Misspenny]

Oh my. I will do you one better. Close family members, 5th marriage for both, in a Methodist Church. She walked down the aisle to Ava Maria. She was drunk as a skunk that got into moonshine. During her vows her husband had to hold her up. I went and smiled but went to confession the next morning. This was so against my Faith. However I did decide at that wedding not to attend a mockery of a Christian wedding again.No matter who it offended. I would stand by my Faith and the Church’s teachings on valid marriages.

 

[Paul71]

My new question is this: For those of you who faced the decision of whether to attend the invalid wedding ceremony of a fellow Catholic, did you also encourage the couple in some way to convalidate their marriage in the Church? Part of me wishes we could encourage them in that direction, but I don’t know if there is any way we could do it without coming across as presumptuous or interfering. Probably not, but thought I would throw the question out there . . . .

Your situation is a very tough one. I think that the church makes this situation more difficult than it needs to be, by requiring all Catholics to observe canonical form for marriage, even Catholics who have essentially left the church. Ed Peters, a canon lawyer who most people would never accuse of being liberal or heterodox, has opined that the issue of canonical form needs to be revisited by the church. You can see some of what he has written about this issue here and here.

I faced a similar situation with a close family member, who was raised Catholic but who got married in a Baptist church a few years ago (without any dispensation). In his case, I gently encouraged him to go to his local Catholic parish (just a few blocks from his house) and to meet with the priest there about his upcoming marriage. I explained to him that he could probably receive a dispensation to marry in the Baptist church, provided that he and his fiancee did some minimal amount of Catholic marriage preparation. I even spoke to a priest at the parish on his behalf. But you can’t make someone do something, and as far as I know he never talked to anyone at the parish.

I struggled with the question of whether to attend the wedding or not, especially since I had been invited to be a groomsman. I consulted with my pastor, and in the end I took my pastor’s advice and attended. Part of my reasoning was that to my knowledge this family member had not attended Mass or received any sacraments, other than on rare occasions, in many years. So to some extent, he had already separated himself from the church, though not in a formal way. It seemed to me somewhat unrealistic to expect him to go to the Catholic Church for marriage (though I did encourage him to do so), given his situation.

I am not sure that I made the right choice, or that my reasoning was entirely valid. Perhaps I should have told him that if he did not talk to the priest and find a way to make his marriage valid in the Catholic Church, then I could not attend. But what is done is done, and I present this explanation in case it is helpful.

 

[QwertyGirl]

Oh my. I will do you one better. Close family members, 5th marriage for both, in a Methodist Church. She walked down the aisle to Ava Maria. She was drunk as a skunk that got into moonshine. During her vows her husband had to hold her up. I went and smiled but went to confession the next morning. This was so against my Faith. However I did decide at that wedding not to attend a mockery of a Christian wedding again.No matter who it offended. I would stand by my Faith and the Church’s teachings on valid marriages.

I wouldn’t confuse an alcoholic bride and the problems she apparently presented with a respectable wedding that doesn’t have the religious component you would like.

 

[EnglishTeacher]

I think that the church makes this situation more difficult than it needs to be, by requiring all Catholics to observe canonical form for marriage, even Catholics who have essentially left the church

Yes, I have often thought the same thing–thank you for this observation!

In my husband’s relatives’ case, I don’t think they have necessarily left the Church altogether, although Mass attendance and practice seem to be spotty at best. But as we all know, there are of course plenty of cases when a Catholic has joined another denomination or left the practice of any faith altogether–and while that is unfortunate, it shouldn’t logically follow that there is no way for them to be validly married at all, other than in the Church in which they no longer believe. It creates a strange catch-22.

Ed Peters, a canon lawyer who most people would never accuse of being liberal or heterodox, has opined that the issue of canonical form needs to be revisited by the church. You can see some of what he has written about this issue here and here .

Fascinating; thank you for those links.

I am not sure that I made the right choice, or that my reasoning was entirely valid. Perhaps I should have told him that if he did not talk to the priest and find a way to make his marriage valid in the Catholic Church, then I could not attend. But what is done is done, and I present this explanation in case it is helpful.

Very helpful. It sounds like you did the right thing; it is a difficult call to make.