To be Catholic, do I have to think others are wrong? Or I'm right?

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The apostles, and probably a very very large number of heroes and leaders in church history (though I can’t say for certain which ones aside cannot see into their minds) and mystics/visionaries. Although I think in some cases a person is granted certainty about only a few things.
Well yes of course the apostles, etc were people of faith. Although Peter denied and Thomas doubted. Luther and Calvin and Wesley, et al, were of faith as well. Jews are people of faith. Muslims are. Hindu, Buddhists, et al, as well. 🤷
 
Well yes of course the apostles were people of faith. Although Peter denied and Thomas doubted. Luther and Calvin and Wesley, et al, were of faith as well. Jews are people of faith. Muslims are. Hindu, Buddhists, et el as well. 🤷
I was offering examples of knowing with “certainty what the truth is”.
 
👍 If my Priest or a Cardinal who was the Prefect of the Congregation of the Doctrine on Faith advises that something is discouraged as it may be harmful to my spiritual life, I pay careful attention and take it on board and research further on why it is discouraged.

I used to attend a Protestant church regularly along with Mass not thinking it would be a problem, my Priest advised against it for my spiritual wellbeing so I stopped apart from the odd wedding or funeral etc.

I am the captain of my salvation ship so I need to make wise and spiritually edifying decisions to ensure that my actions and decisions do not conflict with the Church. The Church was put there by Christ to guide me on my journey and how to avoid pitfalls. Just as Our Lady was prevented from falling into the pit of original sin.

Having said that, you are also the captain of your own salvation ship.
Good advice here^^^

Basically, proceed with caution.

And just as importantly, know your faith. Bible quoters are sometimes very good at making it say whatever they want it to say. They can sound very convincing; but if you dig deep you can see the passages are likely being misinterpreted by these well intended folks.
 
If a Cardinal who is the Prefect of the
Congregation of the Doctrine on Faith
says NOT to regularly attend a church
of another faith, I will OBEY, seeing it
may damage my own faith, after all,
satan will give you truths but will
ALWAYS slip in the lie to drag you
away from the Catholic Church!!
 
I was offering examples of knowing with “certainty what the truth is”.
Well I suppose human apostles, writing in the context of their times, could have known with certainty if they fully understood God properly and recorded everything about Jesus properly and if we can be certain of both of those things. But it still takes having a leap of faith in them.
 
God’s Church will never fall. We see Satan at work pulling people astray always to either false religions or irreligion but to be a true Catholic you just show love to everyone regardless. Think about St.Paul who before his conversion was so in defense of his belief in Judaism that he used violence to stamp out the threat. Doing this and as Paul acknowledges in a couple of his letters was not for the reason of his faith being strong but likewise the opposite. When we are insecure about our own beliefs we tend to judge others and use anger to try to disprove them. The only way to bring people back to the true Church is by doing what Jesus did on earth and does now. Show love to all. Many people were born into Protestantism or some of these quasi Christian groups like Mormons or Jehovahs Witnesses ( I’ve went to services for both and ironically just pray for them.) It saddens me to see children being taught lies but showing hatred will not justify our cause but make us look worse. Just show love and never try to argue with someone why you are right and they are wrong. Act as Jesus would. Always remember the story of the good Samaritan. Because I am sure there are Catholics who would walk by a person on the street beaten and then a Mormon who would take him in and care for him. Who would be justified?
 
Greetings! 🙂

I understand your frustration.

Important to understand that the bible is a product of the Church. And the Church has always maintained that not everything was written down. And that the Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth. (1 Tim 3:15) , it was given authority to make important decisions(Matt 18:17) and her leaders the faculties to forgive sins, even (John 20:21-23). And that Jesus promised to be with her always (Matt 28:20). And that we were left a Vicarious shepherd here on earth (John 21) And that God speaks to that Shepherd (Matt 16)

So you can trust in the Church He established. She has the promise from the Lord, and unlike these restoration movements, she actually has the pedigree of 2,000 years of protecting and preserving the faith to back it up.

May1980, Jesus ministry was 3 years long, yet all we have are the gospel accounts of some of those events and quotations. Really not much information overall as John tells us this in John 21, last verse.

Jesus asks Paul why he persecutes HIM. But Paul/Saul had not met Jesus, he was actually persecuting Christians. Demonstrating you cant separate the Lord from the Church. Impossible to decapitate the body of Christ. The Church is a living entity and He is right there in the middle of it. If something has been infallibly decreed at a Council, you can take it to the bank.

BTW, 1980 was a good year. Ronald Reagan got elected that year and some of my earliest memories are in 80-81. So you have a interesting screen name. 😉
God bless Lenten_ashes,

I agree with your post.

Yet, in your opinion Lenten_ashes, what is the reason or reasons the Catholics flocking to the Protestant Churches, mainly to the Evangelical Churches?

It is common knowledge, many Evangelical Churches made up with 40 % - 60 % Ex Catholics.

The Jehovah’s Witnesses also boasting that their Kingdom Halls are full with Ex Catholics.

We cannot say the devil made them to leave our Catholic Church.

God doesn’t let the devil overpower their will.

I have spoken several of those who left our Church.

Their reason was: Lost faith the way different things done in our Church.

Just about all of them suffered “spiritual starvation.” – Results of their lack of spiritual food/spiritual education.

In general, the flock (members of the Church) doesn’t get enough spiritual food/spiritual education, which results in spiritual starvation.

**A quote from another thread:

Pentecostal View Towards Catholics? Posted by Benhur (Protestant) Post # 80**

“They partly speak from experience…their own. When I attended/belonged to an A of G church, 60% were x Catholics…one was a very sweet nun (she said she was a Nicodemus, not born again as a Catholic)…so they speak of themselves , relatively speaking to their days in Catholicism.” End quote.

When we see the above quote, we see our terrible neglect.

Our flock is starving for the reason of lack of “spiritual food/spiritual education.”


It is clear, it is solely our own faults, and very serious faults!!!

What do you think Lenten_ashes, what could we change and do better, to reverse the exodus and make the Protestants to flock to our Catholic Churches?

**WE SAY **

Only our Church has the Fullness of the truth, but this fullness of the truth doesn’t have much meaning when our members are spiritually starving and flocking to the Protestant Churches and the reunification between Catholics and Protestant taking place in the Protestant Churches.

If we want reunification in our Catholic Churches we must act accordingly.

Catholics and Protestants must have the same teachings.


**We already have the same teachings on the doctrine of justification.

JOINT DECLARATION ON THE DOCTRINE OF JUSTIFICATION
by the Lutheran World Federation and the Catholic Church.**

Protestants always believed the above declaration, as Catholics we must start to believe it, NO MORE any kind or form of work salvation, we CAN NOT merit God’s grace (it is God’s UNMERITED FAVOR) and we CAN NOT work ourselves into heaven, our salvation received by faith as God’s free gift.

Yet to work out the other our combined teachings as well.

WE MUST BELIEVE POPE FRANCIS FOLLOWING STATEMENTS AND WE MUST ACT ACCORDINGLY

"The view of the church’s teaching as a monolith to defend without nuance or different understandings is wrong.

We have to find a new balance; otherwise even the moral edifice of the church is likely to fall like a house of cards, losing the freshness and fragrance of the Gospel.

The proposal of the Gospel must be more simple, profound, radiant.

It is from this proposition that the moral consequences then flow."

americamagazine.org/faith…w-pope-francis

WE HAVE A CHOICE

We listen to and we agree with Pope Francis’ statements and we act accordingly, or the reunification between Catholics and Protestants continues to taking place in the Protestant Churches.

The choice is ours.

WE CAN DO RIGHT NOW

First we must demolish the wall between Catholics and Protestants.

Start to love and respect our Protestant brothers and sisters, we should consider, they are equal with us in the Body of Christ.

God bless.

LatinRight
 
Protestants always believed the above declaration, as Catholics we must start to believe it, NO MORE any kind or form of work salvation, we CAN NOT merit God’s grace (it is God’s UNMERITED FAVOR) and we CAN NOT work ourselves into heaven, our salvation received by faith as God’s free gift.
You seem very misinformed about salvation if you think Protestants have it right, and that only now Catholics should start to believe the same way. Do you understand what you teach if you do not believe that we receive salvation based on merit? Play that out and you will have made God a liar who says He is no respecter of persons. If merit does not exist, then God randomly predestines people for salvation. You are confusing the salvation of humanity with each individual’s personal salvation. Of course it is wrong to think that you will ascend to Heaven by your own means, only God has made this possible. But he also says we will be judged by our works, that we build up treasure in heaven, receive crowns and rewards, etc.
 
I was raised Catholic and try to follow the faith, but I don’t think other religions are all wrong, nor do I think that all of the Catholic teachings are the one and only right way. And for some Catholic teachings, I don’t even pretend to know what’s true, despite what the Catholic church teaches…only God can know. I do hold a Christian world-view but love God and love people, is what stands out for me.
Others have pointed out the Catholic position that non Catholics can have some elements of truth. I thought it worth considering the background for your question. There seems to me often, and maybe in your case, an outlook that has the Catholic position as being rigid and dogmatic whereas the Protestant position is accepting and non dogmatic.

All the Protestant churches were created with explicit rejection of the Catholic Church. They condemned dogma. They called the pope the anti-Christ. They called Catholic practice vain superstition. In short the Protestant churches were not kind and accepting towards the Catholic Church. They were as rigid and dogmatic as they claimed and claim the Catholic Church is. And they were no more accepting of different Protestant sects then they were of the Catholic Church.

The situation is different today particularly in the US. We have a huge variety of denominations that have resulted from initial rigid rejection of the Catholic Church and then later rigid rejection of Protestant churches. Whereas initial members of Protestant churches were leaving the Catholic or a Protestant church and had specific reasons most Protestants today, in my opinion, are born into their religious tradition. They don’t have a reason for being their particular denomination.

As a result there has been a tendency to downplay differences. The consequence is a sort of indifferentism to doctrine and practice. This is one answer to the problem of disagreement about unity in the faith. The other answer is the Catholic Church and its rigid dogma which again wasn’t a problem for merely being rigid and dogmatic but rather for being supposedly wrong in its dogma and practice.

I say this because some perspective on how we got to where we are is helpful. In my opinion the sort of mere Christianity era we live in is coming to an end. It can’t survive. It has no esprit de corps. The form of wide open everyone is right Christianity will wither away. What will remain will be dogmatic Catholicism and dogmatic Protestantism though far fewer people will be members of either.
 
God bless Lenten_ashes,

I agree with your post.

Yet, in your opinion Lenten_ashes, what is the reason or reasons the Catholics flocking to the Protestant Churches, mainly to the Evangelical Churches?

It is common knowledge, many Evangelical Churches made up with 40 % - 60 % Ex Catholics.

The Jehovah’s Witnesses also boasting that their Kingdom Halls are full with Ex Catholics.

We cannot say the devil made them to leave our Catholic Church.

God doesn’t let the devil overpower their will.

I have spoken several of those who left our Church.

Their reason was: Lost faith the way different things done in our Church.

Just about all of them suffered “spiritual starvation.” – Results of their lack of spiritual food/spiritual education.

In general, the flock (members of the Church) doesn’t get enough spiritual food/spiritual education, which results in spiritual starvation.
Hi LR!! 🙂

My opinion is that too many Catholics don’t know their faith. They are sitting ducks for protestants who do know their faith. Protestants are very convinced of their theology, and therefore seem very convincing to others who are not so sure about their own faith.

Yes, spiritual starvation is a legitimate explanation. We eat 3 meals per day but many only have 1 spiritual meal per week. We need more than that. We need to read the bible and catechism. We need to attend Mass more often. We need to get involved in Church functions, etc, etc.
**A quote from another thread:
Pentecostal View Towards Catholics? Posted by Benhur (Protestant) Post # 80**
“They partly speak from experience…their own. When I attended/belonged to an A of G church, 60% were x Catholics…one was a very sweet nun (she said she was a Nicodemus, not born again as a Catholic)…so they speak of themselves , relatively speaking to their days in Catholicism.” End quote.
When we see the above quote, we see our terrible neglect.
Our flock is starving for the reason of lack of “spiritual food/spiritual education.”
It is clear, it is solely our own faults, and very serious faults!!!
What do you think Lenten_ashes, what could we change and do better, to reverse the exodus and make the Protestants to flock to our Catholic Churches?
So this is something that actually scared me away from the Church for years - the results the Church was producing. I just didn’t understand how so many Catholics can be nominal Christians if the Church is teaching legitimate doctrine. Ultimately I concluded she is teaching truth, but her methodology needs improvement. For example, I don’t think kids should be taught saintly intercession until they first know Jesus and his gospel message very well. Just my opinion. 🤷 Get people grounded in Jesus first, then teach everything else. Don’t confuse them.
Catholics and Protestants must have the same teachings.
**We already have the same teachings on the doctrine of justification.
JOINT DECLARATION ON THE DOCTRINE OF JUSTIFICATION
by the Lutheran World Federation and the Catholic Church.**
Protestants always believed the above declaration, as Catholics we must start to believe it, NO MORE any kind or form of work salvation, we CAN NOT merit God’s grace (it is God’s UNMERITED FAVOR) and we CAN NOT work ourselves into heaven, our salvation received by faith as God’s free gift.
Yet to work out the other our combined teachings as well.
WE MUST BELIEVE POPE FRANCIS FOLLOWING STATEMENTS AND WE MUST ACT ACCORDINGLY
"The view of the church’s teaching as a monolith to defend without nuance or different understandings is wrong.
We have to find a new balance; otherwise even the moral edifice of the church is likely to fall like a house of cards, losing the freshness and fragrance of the Gospel.
The proposal of the Gospel must be more simple, profound, radiant.
It is from this proposition that the moral consequences then flow."
WE HAVE A CHOICE
We listen to and we agree with Pope Francis’ statements and we act accordingly, or the reunification between Catholics and Protestants continues to taking place in the Protestant Churches.
The choice is ours.
WE CAN DO RIGHT NOW
First we must demolish the wall between Catholics and Protestants.
Start to love and respect our Protestant brothers and sisters, we should consider, they are equal with us in the Body of Christ.
God bless.
LatinRight
I would say that Catholic language is not made for protestant sensibilities.

Whenever we hear talk of us meriting anything in the Church, it is referring to CONDUIT merit, not strict merit. Conduit merit is in cooperation with the grace of God. Strict merit was condemned at Trent. God owes us nothing and both Catholics and Protestants can agree on that much.

And I agree that we must see protestants as who they are - separated brothers and sisters in Christ. They are not our enemies. Even if they call our Church the whore of Babylon or say other nonsensical stuff, we have to look past it and assume it’s invincible ignorance and just be patient.

Peace
 
Or folks know the faith. And then lost faith as another poster mentioned as a reason given for leaving the faith. It really boils down to that. People lose faith in Catholic teaching authority or else they’d remain. Faith and where a believer’s is, is the bottom line in all of this. It’s not that difficult. For some their faith is with the Catholic faith. For others it is like one of the OP’s grandmother’s, with the Methodist. For others with one of many other faiths or even some combination thereof. Or for some they have no faith in a Creator. The most important thing for me as a believer though, is we are all children of God. United in that way. And are along this ride on earth together. So we might as well strive to walk as family together, siblings of one another, toward that time when we will eventually truly know and understand all the things of God. Let us go in peace. Amen.
 
I strongly believe there are a few factors for this (in no particular order):
  1. After Vatican II, parents could not explain to their children how the Church was still the same. They could not explain why some things that used to be sins (like eating meat on Fridays during Advent & Ordinary time) and were no longer sins. Today, the young from the Vatican II days are now grandparents with kids & grandkids who don’t know the faith because the Baby boomers didn’t really learn the faith or got seriously confused.
  2. Many nominal Catholic confuse lowercase tradition for Church teaching, and even discipline for dogma. Furthermore, many older Catholics view wrong things that we taught by nuns or even bishops as Catholic truth, rather than an error. For example: I know many people (including my pastor) who says they were not allowed to read the Bible before Vatican II. I know that did not come from Rome, but apparently, many Catholics in America - especially in the Northeast believed that.
  3. Relativism. Along with Modernism, this is the biggest heresy in the Church right now.
  4. The Sexual Revolution. The Sexual Revolution is perhaps the worse thing to ever happen to the Church besides the Great Schism and the Protestant Reformation. (I personally argue that the Sexual Revolution is the 2nd worst thing to ever happen to the Church in all of Church history - I believe the Protestant Reformation is the worst thing to ever happen, and that Islamic conquest of the East was the 3rd worst thing.).
  5. Too many people first identify with their political ideology before identifying with their religion. Many Protestant denominations can easily line up with either major US political party. But the Catholic Church (and the Orthodox) do not easily line up with either party. At least not fully. A Republican Protestant can easily attend a church where practically everyone is a Republican. And a Democratic Protestant can easily attend a church were practically everyone is a Democrat. But finding a faithful Catholic parish where everyone is one party is rare.
  6. We lost control of the majority of Catholic colleges & universities. It’s not uncommon to have a high school student graduate from Catholic high school and then go to a dissent college and lose their faith.
  7. Finally, we lost the nuns. For some reason, after Vatican II, the nuns stopped teaching in Catholic school and stopped teaching CCD. The laity wasn’t ready to take over, and that increased the cost of Catholic Education dramatically.
To me, the most IMPORTANT places to fix is (1) making young children receive orthodox teaching. (2) provide Adult Faith Formation opportunities for all of our parishes (3) Fix the Catholic Colleges or officially remove the Catholic status from schools that do not wish to change (like Georgetown).

God Bless
 
You seem very misinformed about salvation if you think Protestants have it right, and that only now Catholics should start to believe the same way. Do you understand what you teach if you do not believe that we receive salvation based on merit? Play that out and you will have made God a liar who says He is no respecter of persons. If merit does not exist, then God randomly predestines people for salvation. You are confusing the salvation of humanity with each individual’s personal salvation. Of course it is wrong to think that you will ascend to Heaven by your own means, only God has made this possible. But he also says we will be judged by our works, that we build up treasure in heaven, receive crowns and rewards, etc.
God bless Pacloc,

In your post you are dealing with three separate issues:

**1. Predestination of the elect.
  1. Judgment of the elect.
  2. Justification/Salvation. **
From your declaration I know you are a member of the Orthodox Church.

Unfortunately I don’t know what is the teaching of the Orthodox Church on the above issues, but I know reasonably well the teachings of the RCC on the above issues.

**1. PREDESTINATION OF THE ELECT

Tuesday, April 2, 2013 Fr William Most

What does the Catholic Church teach on Predestination?**

Predestination is gratuitous: …**for even before God considers human merits, He

predestines,** and because the sole and total cause of predestination is the goodness and

love of the Father which moves spontaneously without stimulus, merit, or condition.

God’s grace appears to all men (e.g.Tit. 2:11), and man’s initial “response” is the omission

of resistance, which he identifies as an “ontological zero,” meaning man does nothing, to enter a state of justification.

In a related paragraph:
The second stage follows, in which grace moves us further, so that **we do make a decision: **

**“It is God who . . . works in you both the will and the performance.” **

Of course, we do actively cooperate with grace in the second stage.

The entire process need not take more than one instant of time. (#82)

So, in summary the initial response is one of omission of resistance, followed by a positive response in grace.

Another school of thought which Fr. Most considers is known as Molinism, which he describes thusly:

For in Molinism, even though it is grace that gives the power to consent, and cooperates

with man, the work of the man himself seems to be the chief thing in consent.

But St. Paul says that: ". . . for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good

pleasure." These words at least seem to give a lesser role to man in the consent.

Similarly, the Council of Orange says that **“in every good work, we do not begin.” **(#329.2)

In other words, when God commands, He capacitates the hearer to respond.

Yet the ability to respond is also His gift.


**ST. AUGUSTINE ON GRACE AND PREDESTINATION
Fr. William Most

On human interaction with grace:

Every good work, even good will, is the work of God:**

De gratia Christi 25, 26:
"For not only has God given us our ability and helps it, **but He even works [brings about]

willing and acting in us;** not that we do not will or that we do not act, but that without His

help we neither will anything good nor do it."

De gratia et libero arbitrio 16, 32:
"It is certain that we will when we will; but He brings it about that we will good. . . . It is

certain that we act when we act, but He brings it about that we act, providing most effective powers to the will."

John 15:5; “… for without Me you can do nothing.”

Strictly speaking only a person in the STATE OF GRACE can merit, as defined by the Church (Denzinger 1576, 1582).

2 Tim.1:9; “God who saved us and called us with holy calling, **NOT ACCORDING TO

OUR WORKS, but ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE** …”

Eph.1:11; “… being predestined ACCORDING TO THE PURPOSE of Him …”

SUMMARY


As we see above: Our calling, our salvation and our predestination NOTHING TO DO with our works, but everything to do with GOD’S OWN PURPOSE.

Our calling, our salvation and our predestination is NOT RANDOM.

God have been called us, saved us, predestined us, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS, but ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE.

Continue
 
Continuation

2. JUDGMENT OF THE ELECT

If we want to be theologically correct, we cannot say; ‘Judgment of the Elect’ because

there is no such thing ‘Judgment of the Elect,’ an elect never goes to judgment, because

an elect cannot lose salvation. – (DE FIDE Dogma.)

As elect, we will stand before the judgment seat of (1 Cor.3:12-15) but this judgment is

NOT OUR JUDGMENT, it is the judgment of OUR WORKS, our salvation is not at stake.

Our glory and our position in heaven is at stake.

Our glory and our position in heaven is determined by God **according to the outcome of

the judgment of our works** which we have done from baptism until we die.

For us to do good works/supernatural works which rewarded by God is very hard.

The STANDARD to do supernatural works which God recognizes and rewards is VERY HIGH!!!

**CONDITIONS THAT OUR WORKS (OUR DEEDS) COUNT FOR ANYTHING

Conditions MUST BE PRESENT to make SUPERNATURAL MERIT possible.**

The meritorious work must be morally good, that is, in accordance with the moral law in its

object, intent, and circumstances.

It MUST be done FREELY, WITHOUT any EXTERNAL COERCION or INTERNAL NECESSITY.

It MUST be SUPERNATURAL, that is, AROUSED and ACCOMPANIED by ACTUAL

GRACE, and proceeding from a SUPERNATURAL motive.

Strictly speaking only a person in the STATE OF GRACE can merit, as defined by the

Church (Denzinger 1576, 1582).

JUSTIFICATION IN CATHOLIC TEACHING by Jimmy Akin

Quote: “The essence of supernatural love is unselfishness—doing something **NOT

BECAUSE IT WILL HELP US SOMEHOW,** but because we want to do it **out of SHEER

LOVE** for the other person, whether that person is God or one of our fellow human beings

out of the love of God.

This is THE ONLY KIND of love that ultimately pleases God and therefore the **ONLY

KIND** that ultimately gets us a reward IN heaven.” End quote. Emphasize mine.

The way I do supernatural work in the light of the above teachings:
  1. I always keep in mind Eph.2:10.
  2. I believe Rom.4:5-6; Eph.2:8-9; Rom.3:24; Rom.5:18; Rom.11:6; that **I don’t have to
work for my salvation even an iota, my salvation is God’s free gift.** – 100 % gift and I can contribute nothing to it.

For my work to increase my justification and sanctification God gives me reward in heaven if my work is up to the standard of supernatural merit.

But if I do my work for to get my salvation or to keep my salvation I do my work** for my own interest and that work is wood, hay and straw, rejected by God.**
  1. I believe, according to Rom.4:5-6; 1 Cor.3:12-15 even if all my work
rejected by God I still enter into heaven, this knowledge **SET ME FREE to freely decide to

work or not to work without the fear of hell.** – This is a condition to do supernatural merit.

There are other conditions as well.** – It is not so simple to do supernatural merit. The standard is very high.**
  1. I work as much as I possibly can, FREELY, WITHOUT any EXTERNAL COERCION or
INTERNAL NECESSITY not BECAUSE IT WILL HELP ME SOMEHOW, but because I

want to do it out of SHEER for the Glory of God and for the love of others.

If we not set free to love freely, we cannot love.

If we not set free to freely decide to work, we cannot do supernatural work/merit.

We cannot please God with the work we MUST do, because we cannot do it FREELY,

WITHOUT any EXTERNAL COERCION or INTERNAL NECESSITY. **– The work we

MUST do is NOT supernatural work!!!**

MUST always kills our supernatural works/good works.

Continue
 
Continuation

**3. JUSTIFICATION / SALVATION

The RCC teaching in the PAST ERA on Justification/Salvation:**

1813 **We are “meriting eternal life.” **

1821, We are obtaining the joy of heaven, as God’s eternal reward for the good works.

2010, We can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life].

2027 We can merit for ourselves and for others all the graces needed to attain eternal life, as well as necessary temporal goods.

The above paragraphs are still in the Catechism, but as far as I know, the RCC doesn’t teach them any longer.

Hopefully in the next issue of the Catechism the above paragraphs will be excluded.

The RCC teaching in the PRESENT ERA on Justification/Salvation:

HOW TO READ THE NEW TESTAMENT By Etienne Charpentier

Nihil obstate:
Father Anton Cowan

Imprimatur: Monsignor John Crowley, VG Westminster, 28 May 1985

Quote: “There is ONE CENTRAL QUESTION here: how can we become RIGHTEOUS and be SAVED?

We NOT justified by what we do (works, observing law) but by FAITH IN CHRIST.

Salvation is NOT a matter of achieving but RECEIVING IT FREELY from God hands, in faith.”

End quote. Emphasize mine.

**JOINT DECLARATION ON THE DOCTRINE OF JUSTIFICATION by the Lutheran World Federation and the Catholic Church **

3/17 Justification is SOLELY due to the forgiving and renewing mercy that God imparts

as a gift and we RECEIVE IN FAITH, and NEVER CAN MERIT IT ANY WAY.

4/25 We confess together that sinners are justified by faith in the saving action of God in

Christ. WHATEVER in the JUSTIFIED PRECEDES or FOLLOWS the free gift of

faith is NEITHER THE BASIS of justification NOR MERITS it.

4/27.The Catholic understanding also sees faith as fundamental in justification. For

without faith, no justification can take place. Thus justifying grace never becomes a

human possession. While Catholic teaching emphasizes the renewal of life by justifying

grace, this RENEVAL in FAITH, HOPE, LOVE is always dependent on

God’s unfathomable grace and contributes NOTHING to JUSTIFICATION.

4/37 We confess together that good works - a Christian life lived in faith, hope and

love - FOLLOW JUSTIFICATION and ARE ITS FRUITS. Emphasize mine.

ChurchWatch 02/06/09

**Pope Benedict XVI: ‘Luther Was Right’ **

"Luther would have been amazed at the efforts of the Vatican today to put the Bible back

into the heart of the Roman Catholic Church," writes Jeff Fountain of Christian Today.

Fountain reports that during Pope Benedict XVI’s recent weekly public addresses in St.

Peter’s Square, he quoted Martin Luther in declaring “Sola fide,” that salvation is by faith alone.

According to this report, **Benedict affirmed that Luther had correctly translated Paul’s

words as ‘justified by faith alone’ – the well known sola fide.**

According to Fountain, the Pope highlighted the fact that prior to his Damascus Road

conversion, Paul had strictly adhered to all the Pharisaical laws and rules.

However, after meeting the Lord Jesus in his vision, Paul began leading a lifestyle of faith alone. End quote.

God bless.

LatinRight
 
Yes. Nothing wrong with being friends with people of other christian denominations or faiths but worshipping regularly with them is discouraged as it can lead to error.
Discouraged by whom? This is why many English teachers say to avoid passives–they can let you skate by with a muddled statement that sounds authoritative but is hard to examine.

Anything can lead to error.

A church that has the “fullness of the faith” doesn’t need to be afraid of people experiencing what other traditions have to offer.

The more nervous you become about Catholics encountering other traditions, the more hollow you make the Church’s claims seem.

Edwin
 
I was invited to a Brethern church on Sunday
after holy mass at my Catholic Church, I love
the teachings of the elders there and I think
that I will CONTINUE to attend it, it believes,
among other things(baptism, salvation, veiling
for the women, the sacred assembly of believers)
the ideal of SEPARATION from the world for
Christians which is a very holy calling!! 2 Cor. 6:17
More power to you if you can do that. Just be aware that the Brethren are generally very anti-Catholic (if you’re talking about Plymouth Brethren–the Brethren tradition in the U.S. stemming from radical Pietism is a bit different, but your use of “elders” made me think you were talking about PBs).
 
Discouraged by whom? This is why many English teachers say to avoid passives–they can let you skate by with a muddled statement that sounds authoritative but is hard to examine.
I think worshipping with our brothers and sisters is, generally speaking, a pretty safe thing to do. But I’m a bit more prone to worry when it comes to listening to speeches, preaching and the like.
 
Discouraged by whom? This is why many English teachers say to avoid passives–they can let you skate by with a muddled statement that sounds authoritative but is hard to examine.

Anything can lead to error.

A church that has the “fullness of the faith” doesn’t need to be afraid of people experiencing what other traditions have to offer.

The more nervous you become about Catholics encountering other traditions, the more hollow you make the Church’s claims seem.

Edwin
Discouraged by my Priest, my Bishop and Cardinal Arinze who was the Prefect of the Congregation on the Doctrine of Faith, the highest authority on the dos/don’ts of the Catholic Faith.

Worshipping regularly with non-Catholics is discouraged as it gives the impression the faiths are equal which is not the case. They will become affected by teaching errors. Only the Catholic faith possesses the Full Truth.

Once in a while (every few months) is no problem but not regularly. (See Below Clip @ 1:44) Cardinal Arinze addresses the dangers of regular worship in a faith that is not Catholic. The Church is there to guide Catholics, whether you are offended by the Cardinal’s words or not is irrelevant as you are not Catholic, he is only speaking to Catholics.

Having said that, every one has free will, we need to use that free will to choose wisely for our spiritual edification. People can choose to listen to the Cardinal or not.

youtube.com/watch?v=BIjys5NuPwY&t=2s
 
Discouraged by my Priest, my Bishop and Cardinal Arinze who was the Prefect of the Congregation on the Doctrine of Faith, the highest authority on the dos/don’ts of the Catholic Faith.

Worshipping regularly with non-Catholics is discouraged as it gives the impression the faiths are equal which is not the case. They will become affected by teaching errors. Only the Catholic faith possesses the Full Truth.

Once in a while (every few months) is no problem but not regularly. (See Below Clip @ 1:44) Cardinal Arinze addresses the dangers of regular worship in a faith that is not Catholic. The Church is there to guide Catholics, whether you are offended by the Cardinal’s words or not is irrelevant as you are not Catholic, he is only speaking to Catholics.

Having said that, every one has free will, we need to use that free will to choose wisely for our spiritual edification. People can choose to listen to the Cardinal or not.

youtube.com/watch?v=BIjys5NuPwY&t=2s
I’m sure the Cardinal would acknowledge that people who are more grounded in their faith are in less danger of falling into protestant error by worshiping with them.

The un-catechized are in serious danger and should avoid it all together, imo.

:twocents:
 
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