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Giver
Guest
Jesus is God and who are we to question God???
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Brendan
Guest
Giver,
One of your biggest falicies is that the New Law is somehow different from the Old
Matt 5
I’m sorry to say, but Mt 5:19 really seems to apply to you, you are relaxing God’s command to war when necessary.
One of your biggest falicies is that the New Law is somehow different from the Old
Matt 5
The Old Moral Law is the same as the New Moral Law, only the cerimonial ‘law’ was revoked.
I’m sorry to say, but Mt 5:19 really seems to apply to you, you are relaxing God’s command to war when necessary.
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Giver
Guest
**
(Matthew 5:38-39) “You have learnt how it was said: Eye for eye and tooth for tooth. But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance. On the contrary, if anyone hits you on the right cheek, offer him the other as well;” **
You can read where Jesus says:” You have learnt how it was said: Eye for eye etc. Then He tells us what it is to be from then on. Now tell me He didn’t come to complete the old law. If you do that I will quote the Scripture where He said He came here to do that very thing.
Giver
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johnshelby
Guest
war is always terrible… and there is always some… unjustifiable
aspect to every war…
but we are to resist evil… Giver is right, if we had the faith
of a mustard seed, we would never have need to physically
resist anyone, or anything…
but, we don’t… so we have to use whatever means to resist
evil we have… some evil we can resist by turning away…
some we can resist by confronting it with faith, and it turns
away… some has to be forcibly restrained…
that forceable restraint always causes some innocent to
suffer… whether it’s arresting a criminal and locking him
away, which usually has effects on his family and friends,
and can affect the people who have to restrain him…
or it can be innocents who are hurt when the force needed
is in the form of battle or war… but, sometimes, that force
is the only option…
Jesus, in his last ‘instructions’
to the apostles, said…
Luke 22:35-36 (KJV)
35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
but, if we take the sword, we must pray that our decision to
use it is just… for we will be judged, as to our judgement…
i hate war…
aspect to every war…
but we are to resist evil… Giver is right, if we had the faith
of a mustard seed, we would never have need to physically
resist anyone, or anything…
but, we don’t… so we have to use whatever means to resist
evil we have… some evil we can resist by turning away…
some we can resist by confronting it with faith, and it turns
away… some has to be forcibly restrained…
that forceable restraint always causes some innocent to
suffer… whether it’s arresting a criminal and locking him
away, which usually has effects on his family and friends,
and can affect the people who have to restrain him…
or it can be innocents who are hurt when the force needed
is in the form of battle or war… but, sometimes, that force
is the only option…
Jesus, in his last ‘instructions’
to the apostles, said…
Luke 22:35-36 (KJV)
35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
but, if we take the sword, we must pray that our decision to
use it is just… for we will be judged, as to our judgement…
i hate war…
M
mike182d
Guest
Maria, I think another important point to realize is that Christ was not saying anything new. In the book of Dueteronomy, God Himself tells the Jews all the time that revenge (“eye for an eye”) is wrong, but then will tell the Jews to go to war with the Ammorites or the Hittites out of “justice” immediately following.
There is a big difference between “revenge” and “war.”
Also, Jesus only speaks of personal norms. He never once criticizes government: “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, give to God what is God’s.” Those in positions of authority, as ordained by God, have a much different role than we do on an individual level. Even St. Paul acknowledges this when he says to obey the higher authorities because they derive their authority from God and “do not bear the sword in vain.”
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Della
Guest
Sorry, once again you have got the wrong end of the stick here. Jesus’ comment about loving our enemies has nothing to do, once again, with waging war. He was talking about when we are persecuted for our faith and “dispitefully used.” Really, you cannot decide you know what Jesus was talking about by quoting verses out of context–both the context of the quote and the greater context of the whole of Scripture, or apart from Church teaching.
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Brendan
Guest
I, for one, was certainly not questioning Him.
I know God is All Just and if He commanded war, that means that War can be a Just act. There is Biblical proof of that in Exodus and Joshua.
Very simple and no questioning God
…Unless, of course, if one holds that war is always unjust. That very premise must of course call God’s acts into question.
Which is why I cannot hold to such a position.
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Giver
Guest
Giving the excuse to go to war, to kill and defend us, because there isn’t enough faith? Then you know there is something very wrong within the Christian community. You believe because there isn’t faith we have to fight? Well why don’t we try love?war is always terrible… and there is always some… unjustifiable
aspect to every war…
but we are to resist evil… Giver is right, if we had the faith
of a mustard seed, we would never have need to physically
resist anyone, or anything…
but, we don’t… so we have to use whatever means to resist
evil we have… some evil we can resist by turning away…
some we can resist by confronting it with faith, and it turns
away… some has to be forcibly restrained…
that forceable restraint always causes some innocent to
suffer… whether it’s arresting a criminal and locking him
away, which usually has effects on his family and friends,
and can affect the people who have to restrain him…
or it can be innocents who are hurt when the force needed
is in the form of battle or war… but, sometimes, that force
is the only option…
Jesus, in his last ‘instructions’
to the apostles, said…
Luke 22:35-36 (KJV)
35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
but, if we take the sword, we must pray that our decision to
use it is just… for we will be judged, as to our judgement…
i hate war…
(Matthew 5:43-44) “You have learnt how it was said, you must love your neighbor and hate your enemy, but I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.”
I can’t understand how anyone could read (Luke 22:36) and think Jesus was telling them to get a sword to defend him or herself. Even the Catholic approved Jerusalem Bible will tell you “The purse to buy, the sword to procure by force, the necessities of life. All this is symbolic of a mission in a hostile world.” He told Peter to put away his sword that those who live by the sword would die by the sword.
Giver
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RobNY
Guest
Giver said:
The people trying to kill me are the ones I don’t have faith in, not God.
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Giver
Guest
Are you afraid they won’t get the job done right?
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RobNY
Guest
I’m afraid they will get the job done right, and with brutal efficiency.
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Daniel_Marsh
Guest
Exodus 22:2-3 (New International Version)
"If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed; 3 but if it happens after sunrise, he is guilty of bloodshed.
In the dark, one does not know how deadly the personal threat to life and property is, in the light it is possible to arrest a thief with less force.
Fighting the War and the Peace: Battlefield Ethics, Peace Talks, Treaties, and Pacifism in the Jewish Tradition
Michael J. Broyde
jlaw.com/Articles/war1.html
This article by Broyde is well worth the read. He puts together all the elements together in a mature matter. He does write from a Jewish viewpoint, but it is amasing how his understanding paralells Jesus teachings.
"If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed; 3 but if it happens after sunrise, he is guilty of bloodshed.
In the dark, one does not know how deadly the personal threat to life and property is, in the light it is possible to arrest a thief with less force.
Fighting the War and the Peace: Battlefield Ethics, Peace Talks, Treaties, and Pacifism in the Jewish Tradition
Michael J. Broyde
jlaw.com/Articles/war1.html
This article by Broyde is well worth the read. He puts together all the elements together in a mature matter. He does write from a Jewish viewpoint, but it is amasing how his understanding paralells Jesus teachings.
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Giver
Guest
Daniel Marsh:
(Matthew 5:43) “You have learnt how it was said: You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I say this to you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you; in this way you will be sons of your Father in Heaven.”
Please don’t quote Old Testament Scripture to try and convince me that Jesus didn’t mean what He said.
(Matthew 5:43) “You have learnt how it was said: You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I say this to you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you; in this way you will be sons of your Father in Heaven.”
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thistle
Guest
I’m curious. I believe you mentioned in another thread you are a grandfather. If somebody breaks into your home and starts attacking your children and grandchildren would you simply stand by watching them being wounded and killed or would you try to protect your family. Please do not quote scripture. I want to hear your own words.
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Giver
Guest
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(Matthew 7:21) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”
Jesus said (John 14:21) “anybody who receives my commandments and keeps them will be one who loves me; and anybody who loves me will be loved by My Father, and I shall love him and show myself to him.”
(Matthew 10:37-39)”Anyone who prefers father or mother to me is not worthy of me. Anyone who prefers son or daughter to me is not worthy of me. Anyone who does not take his cross and follow in my footsteps is not worthy of me. Anyone who finds his life will lose it; anyone who loses his life for my sake will find it.”
The will of the Father in Heaven is to love our enemies, and I would do nothing that would displease Him. I trust God, if He didn’t want my family to die, they wouldn’t die, and if they were to die they wood, no matter what I tried to do. What most everyone can’t seem to understand is: (Matthew 6:9) “Our father in heaven, may your name be holy, your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as in heaven.”
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Pax
Guest
If given to you, will you accept New Testament scriptures that are contrary to your thinking?
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thistle
Guest
That’s really sad that you would standly idly by and not lift a finger to stop your family being murdered especially when **Jesus said ** in John 15:13 “No one has greater love than this, to lay down one’s life for one’s friends”.
The original greek words “for one’s friends” mean for “those whom one loves”. Are saying you don’t love your family enough to be willing to die trying to protect them?
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thistle
Guest
Are you not going to respond Giver?
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