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Randy_Carson
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If you had read the thread carefully, and I realize there are 1000+ posts now, you would KNOW with absolute certainty that Catholics DO NOT think they are the only ones who are saved.
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PRmerger
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Excellent. Has there been someone here who has posited that you did???
The fact that you say you don’t need a church–you just need Jesus alone–means that you can not know a single thing about Jesus.
For it is a Church–the Catholic Church–which provided for you ALL of God’s public revelation.
You cannot know it any other way.
So for you to reject the Body which gave you Him, is to be unfathomably ungrateful.
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Randy_Carson
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If you really want to know what the infallibility of the pope means you should go to the source, the definition by the ecumenical council of the Church at the Vatican on July 18, 1870. Here it is: “It is a divinely revealed dogma that the Roman Pontiff, when he speaks ex cathedra–that is, when, acting in the office of shepherd and teacher of all Christians, he defines by virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, doctrine, concerning faith or morals, to be held by the universal Church–possesses through the divine assistance promised to him in the person of St. Peter the infallibility with which the divine Redeemer willed his Church to be endowed in defining doctrines concerning faith or morals, and that definitions of the Roman Pontiff are therefore irreformable because of their nature, and not because of the agreement of the Church.”
Note what a limited gift this is. Infallibility simply guarantees that the teachings of the united Catholic episcopate and the definitions of the pope are free from error. God’s revelation is safeguarded. Human minds can work on it, discuss it, study it, explain it, draw conclusions from it, and still not destroy it. That is what matters most. God’s truth must be preserved. In studying that truth the human mind has abounding scope for its activity. But infallibility is there all the time to keep the truth untarnished. It is God’s wonderful device for reconciling the fallible activity of our minds and the infallible truth of the revelation he has made.
It is important to understand the conditions which must be fulfilled before the pope speaks infallibly. They should be studied carefully in the definition of the Vatican I. Once they are realized it is easy enough to see that if a pope, in his private teaching, for example, or in a letter to a bishop or group of bishops, or under any circumstances when not all the conditions for infallibility are fulfilled, teaches error, he may even be condemned as a heretic.
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Randy_Carson
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I never said in order to get into heaven, you must be Catholic.“To be in Heaven, You MUST BE CATHOLIC” seems they are already giving me judgment
I said that to BE in heaven, you must be Catholic.
There is only one Body of Christ, and it is known as the Catholic Church.
So, if you get to heaven, you WILL be a member of the Body of Christ - the Catholic Church. You can read all about it above, but this thread will be closing soon.
But you’re not the only one to read into the OP something that was not there.
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PRmerger
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You do see the irony of this, right, yogo?
You are accepting something for which there is NO biblical basis yourself, while rejecting Catholic teaching that you claim does this.
Unless you can find a verse that says that everything we believe has to have a “biblical basis”?
Book, chapter and verse for this, please.
Otherwise, you have been duped into believing, sadly, a man-made tradition. You believed, foolishly, a man who told you that we had to find everything we believe in the Bible. He probably heard another man say it, who heard another man say it…and somebody probably just made that tradition up somewhere in the annals of Christian history.
But no one ever read, “There must be a ‘biblical basis’ for all things we know and believe about God” in a single page of the Bible.
One can search from Genesis through Revelation, and you won’t find that tradition there.
That is, yogo, a man-made tradition.
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PRmerger
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Well, if you’ve ever quoted from the Bible and trusted that it is the Word of God, then you are trusting in men…Catholic men…Catholic bishops, to be exact…to tell you that these words come from God.
You would not know it any other way, save for putting your trust in these Catholic men.
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PRmerger
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Isaiah45_9
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Isaiah45_9
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PRmerger
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Certainly. Absolutely. Irrefutably.
However, it’s 100% poor judgement to leave the Catholic Church because people are behaving badly.
That would be like people leaving Jesus because of Judas’ behavior.
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yogosans14
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The title suggests otherwise…
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yogosans14
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Oh stop, now were just playing word games.I never said in order to get into heaven, you must be Catholic.
I said that to BE in heaven, you must be Catholic.
There is only one Body of Christ, and it is known as the Catholic Church.
So, if you get to heaven, you WILL be a member of the Body of Christ - the Catholic Church. You can read all about it above, but this thread will be closing soon.
But you’re not the only one to read into the OP something that was not there.
John 3
King James Version (KJV)
3 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
I’m a born again Christian, idk what else you want me to say. I have faith and conviction that I am on my way to Heaven, it may be a bumpy ride there though
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PRmerger
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In the end, yogo, no one is saved until he dies. Period.
As you are still alive, you really aren’t saved yet.
And, for that matter, neither am I.
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yogosans14
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When people come to know Christ as their Savior, they are brought into a relationship with God that guarantees their eternal security. Jude 24 declares, “To Him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy.” God’s power is able to keep the believer from falling. It is up to Him, not us, to present us before His glorious presence. Our eternal security is a result of God keeping us, not us maintaining our own salvation.In the end, yogo, no one is saved until he dies. Period.
As you are still alive, you really aren’t saved yet.
And, for that matter, neither am I.
The Lord Jesus Christ proclaimed, “I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand” (John 10:28-29b). Both Jesus and the Father have us firmly grasped in their hand. Who could possibly separate us from the grip of both the Father and the Son?
Ephesians 4:30 tells us that believers are “sealed for the day of redemption.” If believers did not have eternal security, the sealing could not truly be unto the day of redemption, but only to the day of sinning, apostasy, or disbelief. John 3:15-16 tells us that whoever believes in Jesus Christ will “have eternal life.” If a person were to be promised eternal life, but then have it taken away, it was never “eternal” to begin with. If eternal security is not true, the promises of eternal life in the Bible would be in error.
The most powerful argument for eternal security is Romans 8:38-39, “For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Our eternal security is based on God’s love for those whom He has redeemed. Our eternal security is purchased by Christ, promised by the Father, and sealed by the Holy Spirit.
But if one does turn from God completely and doesnt come back, he/she will end up in eternal torment.
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PRmerger
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So how do you know that the Book of Jude is the inspired Word of God, yogo?
Who told you that it is inspired? And why do you trust this person/entity?
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PRmerger
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steve_b
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After 1000+ posts you still don’t see it?“To be in Heaven, You MUST BE CATHOLIC” seems they are already giving me judgment
**Jn 16: **12
“I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.
Therefore, when the HS inspired Paul to teach this
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yogosans14
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If he or she did, they have a lack of faith…
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PRmerger
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Are there people who think they have enough faith, but actually don’t?
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James59
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I asked YOU the question and you haven’t answered it. Here it is again: “Maybe you would like to explain to me and to others reading this thread what exactly the difference is between a traditionalist Catholic and a true Catholic?”
Also, I said in my profile: “I have recently become aware of the traditionalist Catholic movement that give their allegiance to the pre-Vatican ll church. I hope to learn more about that and my Catholic faith generally.” That does not state that I AM a traditionalist Catholic.
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