To Be in Heaven, You Must Be Catholic

  • Thread starter Thread starter Randy_Carson
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
jmcrae said:
The Mass is all about Jesus dying on the Cross for our sins, and coming to us in His body and blood, soul and divinity, to feed us both spiritually and physically.
Click to expand...
pleased to hear it jmcrae
 
Alizarin said:
This constant campaign of trying to beat people into submission with a truuth they don’t believe in does nothing but create an environment conducive to uncharitable comments
Click to expand...
Amen, spread the word, lets stop the uncharitable view of others. But the truth is still the truth even if we haven’t yet agreed.
 
GaryTaylor said:
Universals, the two-objects interpretation, Aquinas, Kant Scotus and a long story not really for here. But there is an answer.
Click to expand...
Well, I wish there was substance there, but thanks for replying.

Just for giggles, since the subject is now authority, I reserve the right to make up rights as I see fit, real and presumed authorities notwithstanding.
 
Jozefo said:
Well, I wish there was substance there, but thanks for replying.

Just for giggles, since the subject is now authority, I reserve the right to make up rights as I see fit, real and presumed authorities notwithstanding.
Click to expand...
Your question related to a circle and square and to how we understand reality. Its not a matter of authority.
 
Jozefo said:
I asked by what authority, and you answered. Of course this has to do with authority.
Click to expand...
I should have added on the last post to save the typing. We are understanding authority differently, applied for example to the Pope and the Church, and then to concepts which are rooted in philosophy and inclusive to not only the Church. This is a good topic but not for here.

So how about we not marginalize each others view since that wouldn’t be charitable. But just to be honest, yours is a view of relativism. At least to this point.
 
GaryTaylor said:
I should have added on the last post to save the typing. We are understanding authority differently, applied for example to the Pope and the Church, and then to concepts which are rooted in philosophy and inclusive to not only the Church. This is a good topic but not for here.

So how about we not marginalize each others view since that wouldn’t be charitable. But just to be honest, yours is a view of relativism. At least to this point.
Click to expand...
I wasn’t aware that I had marginalized your view. As far as my view as being relatavistic, as compared to what? Lol but seriously, I don’t see how that label matters, since I’ve already reserved the right to make up as many rights as I want. I could simply ignore it.
 
Jozefo said:
I wasn’t aware that I had marginalized your view. As far as my view as being relatavistic, as compared to what?.
Click to expand...
That a square doesn’t fit in round hole no matter how hard you pound? OK.
 
Jozefo said:
Ok. I’m detecting an undercurrent here. Hmm… well, have a good day.
Click to expand...
Long as you understand you have “a” answer, doesn’t make it “the” answer, or the “right” answer. Agree?
 
Alizarin said:
Christ? yes, Pope? no.
Click to expand...
How is it that you do not see being subject to Christ a dictatorship?

Or if you do, do you see it as bad?

And how is it that you know what it means to be subject to Christ, except through the Catholic Church? For is it not only through the CC that you know what Christ said and taught?
 
GaryTaylor said:
Long as you understand you have “a” answer, doesn’t make it “the” answer, or the “right” answer. Agree?
Click to expand...
No, because right now our conversation is very fuzzy. I’m not sure of what it is you’re asserting. I have made it clear what I’m asserting; reservation of authority. So maybe if you elaborated on what you’re asserting? I simply can’t agree with what I don’t understand.
 
Jozefo said:
No, because right now our conversation is very fuzzy. I’m not sure of what it is you’re asserting. I have made it clear what I’m asserting; reservation of authority. So maybe if you elaborated on what you’re asserting? I simply can’t agree with what I don’t understand.
Click to expand...
I’ll be honest; I have no clue what you’re talking about, or how it relates to the topic at hand, which is, “To Be in Heaven, You Must Be Catholic”. 🤷
 
Jozefo said:
No, because right now our conversation is very fuzzy. I’m not sure of what it is you’re asserting. I have made it clear what I’m asserting; reservation of authority. So maybe if you elaborated on what you’re asserting? I simply can’t agree with what I don’t understand.
Click to expand...
You asked by what authority are we to determine a circle is a circle and a square is a square. First we need to establish that in reality a difference exists. So the truth proclaims itself. Then of course the thinking proceeds from here as to why we call a circle a circle and not a square and visa versa. So the conversation is a deeper inquiry.
 
GaryTaylor said:
You asked by what authority are we to determine a circle is a circle and a square is a square. First we need to establish that in reality a difference exists. So the truth proclaims itself. Then or course the thinking proceeds from here as to why we call a circle a circle and not a square and visa versa. So the conversation is a deeper inquiry.
Click to expand...
Oh, I see. Well, the authority then is a group of people agreeing to call certain shapes by certain terms. Now my question pertained to: are individuals required to submit to those terms? The answer is no. I can call a shape by any word I like. So can anyone else. The truth being proclaimed is the one proclaimed in Genesis, where God gave man dominion over the earth, and all things in it, except other men.
 
Randy_Carson said:
Provocative title, eh?

I hoped to get your attention, because I’m floating this argument which I put together this morning.
  1. Jesus only has one body.
  2. To be in heaven, one must be a member of the body of Christ
  3. The body of Christ is the Church.
  4. The Church instituted by Christ has a name – the Catholic Church.
    Therefore, to be in heaven, one must be a member of the Catholic Church.
I anticipate some possible objection to 1 and much rejection to 4, but let’s see how it unfolds.

I look forward to reading your thoughts for and against.
Click to expand...
Anyone who is in heaven is part of the one Church that Christ established, by definition. To think otherwise is to accept that Christ could have established dis-unity. If you are in communion with Jesus Christ in heaven, you are part of the Church he established, which is the Catholic Church. But, that does not mean that a person is excluded from salvation if they were not part of the Church while on earth. God is not bound by the sacraments. A poor analogy is…It’s sort of like being lost, wandering through the woods. Making a “good faith effort”, somehow you are guided home, despite having no help. Others had a compass, a map, and good training to find their way. But in the end, home is home. All who are home, are home.
The logical question is, “how can that be, that a person who did not know about the Church in any way, or was not part of the Church, can be saved?”
One of the best reflections on this question is in Mt 20:
Laborers in the Vineyard
Click to expand...
Code: 
  1“For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. 2“When he had agreed with the laborers for a denarius for the day, he sent them into his vineyard. 3“And he went out about the third hour and saw others standing idle in the market place; 4and to those he said, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right I will give you.’ And so they went. 5“Again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did the same thing. 6“And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing around; and he said to them, ‘Why have you been standing here idle all day long?’ 7“They said to him, ‘Because no one hired us.’ He said to them, ‘You go into the vineyard too.’
  8“When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the laborers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last group to the first.’ 9“When those hired about the eleventh hour came, each one received a denarius. 10“When those hired first came, they thought that they would receive more; but each of them also received a denarius. 11“When they received it, they grumbled at the landowner, 12saying, ‘These last men have worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden and the scorching heat of the day.’ 13“But he answered and said to one of them, **‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong; did you not agree with me for a denarius? 14‘Take what is yours and go, but I wish to give to this last man the same as to you. 15‘Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with what is my own? Or is your eye envious because I am generous?’** 16“So the last shall be first, and the first last.”
Click to expand...
 
Randy_Carson said:
  1. It is absolutely necessary to be in some communion with the Catholic Church. (Outside the Church, there is no salvation.)
Click to expand...
Alizarin said:
The Church does not teach that, and previous posts and quotes from the CCC and Popes have gone up to illustrate the point.
Click to expand...
Absolutely, she does.

The teaching of the Church has been, is currently, and always will be: extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
 
Jozefo said:
Oh, I see. Well, the authority then is a group of people agreeing to call certain shapes by certain terms. Now my question pertained to: are individuals required to submit to those terms? The answer is no. I can call a shape by any word I like. So can anyone else. The truth being proclaimed is the one proclaimed in Genesis, where God gave man dominion over the earth, and all things in it, except other men.
Click to expand...
With that kind of a world-view, I expect you have a hard time communicating.

In order to communicate, we all have to agree on what to call things, so that we all know what we’re talking about.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top