To Be in Heaven, You Must Be Catholic

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This is not the topic. It’s those already in Heaven.

If it hasn’t been made clear already, it’s quite understood and taught that one does not have to be Catholic on earth to get to Heaven.

However, it should be cautioned, that though God’s mercy is great and impossible to predict or understand, there are going to be people who stand in judgement and can’t say they didn’t know He had a Church on earth.
No, actually it isn’t that clear. Are you saying once everyone gets to heaven they will now be 'catholic"? Do you mean in the sense all will be clear and we will have full understanding and there will no longer any differences between us? if yes, well thank you God.Or do you mean Mass is continued, etc.? While I have a good familiarity of the Mass and the Euchrist, why would there be any need of such in heaven? I would think that we shall spend a lot of time worshipping before the Throne .
 
.Or do you mean Mass is continued, etc.? While I have a good familiarity of the Mass and the Euchrist, why would there be any need of such in heaven? I would think that we shall spend a lot of time worshipping before the Throne .
That *is *what the Mass is, Doxie. Worshipping before the Throne.
Anyways, most of the posts have to deal with whether or not it is necessary to be a baptized practicing catholic to die and go eventually into heaven. And the opinions differ.
Maybe the opinions of non-Catholics differ. But the Church is quite clear on this. One does not need to be formally enrolled in a parish, but one does need the Catholic Church in order to be saved.
 
That *is *what the Mass is, Doxie. Worshipping before the Throne.

Maybe the opinions of non-Catholics differ. But the Church is quite clear on this. One does not need to be formally enrolled in a parish, but one does need the Catholic Church in order to be saved.
Well, then we agree! Not sure the whole Mass ritual is how, but we agree!!!
 
Can’t go that far about Revelation, but whatever God has us do it will be fine with me.

BTW, I am of the opinion that the catholics have the most beautiful way of remembering the Last Supper.
 
No, actually it isn’t that clear. Are you saying once everyone gets to heaven they will now be 'catholic"? Do you mean in the sense all will be clear and we will have full understanding and there will no longer any differences between us? if yes, well thank you God.Or do you mean Mass is continued, etc.? While I have a good familiarity of the Mass and the Euchrist, why would there be any need of such in heaven? I would think that we shall spend a lot of time worshipping before the Throne .
The worship that is before the Throne is the Mass. They even do the incense and the Holy, holy, holy. 🙂
 
I cannot, since my knee replacements, but I do bow and inwardly kneel just prior to receiving His body and blood.

JonNc, you did not answer my question in its entirety: do you adore and worship the Lutheran Eucharist? Kneeling is not necessarily worshiping.
Every Eucharist is a miracle. The ones you speak of, while I do not reject them out of hand, are meant to strengthen the faith of a wavering priest or people.
Jon,NC I hope you are recovering well.
Ufam Tobie
 
Formal Church Membership, Baptism and Baptism of Desire

To become a formal member of the Church, a valid water baptism is required. However, the Council of Trent declared that we can be justified with the desire for the sacraments rather than the sacraments themselves; therefore, we can be justified with the desire for baptism rather than baptism itself. Justification and thus the state of grace can be received without formal membership in the Church. The desire for baptism is sufficient.

Implicit Desire

Later Catholic teaching has clarified the nature of this desire and shown it can be either explicit or implicit. One has explicit desire for baptism if he consciously desires and resolves to be baptized (as with catechumens and others). One has an implicit desire if he would resolve to be baptized if he knew the truth about it.

How does implicit desire work? Consider the following analogy: Suppose there is a person who is sick and needs a shot of penicillin to make him better. He tells his physician, “Doc, you’ve got to give me something to help me get well!” The doctor looks at his chart and says, “Oh, what you want is penicillin. That’s the right drug for you.” In this case the man had an explicit desire for a drug to make him better – whatever that drug might be – and the appropriate one was penicillin. He thus had an implicit desire for penicillin even if he had not heard of it before. Thus the doctor said: “What you want is penicillin.” This shows that it is possible to want something without knowing what it is.

A person who has a desire to be saved and come to the truth, regardless of what that truth turns out to be, has an implicit desire for Catholicism and for the Catholic Church, because that is where truth and salvation are obtained. By resolving to pursue salvation and truth, he resolves to pursue the Catholic Church, even though he does not know that is what he is seeking. He thus implicitly longs to be a Catholic by explicitly longing and resolving to seek salvation and truth.

**Papal and conciliar writings in the last hundred years have clarified that those who are consciously non-Catholic in their theology may still have an overriding implicit desire for the truth and hence for Catholicism. Pope Pius XII stated that concerning some of “those who do not belong to the visible Body of the Catholic Church . . . by an unconscious desire and longing they have a certain relationship with the Mystical Body of the Redeemer” (Mystici Corporis 103). **

How does this work? Consider our example of the sick man who needs penicillin. Suppose that he thinks that a sulfa drug will cure him and he explicitly desires it. So he tells the doctor, “Doc, I’m real sick, and you’ve got to give me that sulfa drug to make me better.” But the doctor notices on his chart that he has an allergy to sulfa drugs, and says, “No, you don’t want that; what you really want is penicillin.” In this case the person’s primary desire is to get well; he has simply mistaken what will bring that about. Since his primary desire to be well, he implicitly desires whatever will cause that to happen. He thus implicitly desires the correct drug and will explicitly desire that drug as soon as he realizes the sulfa would not work.

As papal and conciliar writings have indicated, the same thing is possible in religion. If a person’s primary desire is for salvation and truth then he implicitly desires Catholicism even if he is consciously mistaken about what will bring him salvation and truth. He might be a member of some other church, yet desire salvation and truth so much that he would instantly become a Catholic if he knew the truth concerning it. In this case, his primary desire would be for salvation and truth – wherever that might be found – rather than his primary desire being membership in a non-Catholic church.

However, the situation could be reversed. It is possible for a person to have a stronger desire not to be a Catholic than to come to the truth. This would be the case when people resist evidence for the truth of Catholicism out of a desire to remain non-Catholic. In this case their primary desire would not be for the truth but for remaining a non-Catholic. Thus their ignorance of the truth would not be innocent (because they desired something else more than the truth), and it would constitute mortal sin.

Taken from:
The Necessity of Being Catholic
by James Akin
chnetwork.org/journals/nesschurch/ness_7.htm
 
This is one of the problems I have with ‘no salvation outside the Church’ and some Catholics’ teaching on it. I love and worship God with all my heart. I try my best to follow Jesus’ ways and be a better person. I cannot believe that he would not allow me a place in his kingdom simply because I was in the ‘wrong’ church, as the Holy See sees it. Interestingly Anglicans consider themselves both Catholic and protestant, but obviously His Holiness doesn’t. But I can’t understand why I wouldn’t be allowed to enter heaven just because I was in a slightly different church?
 
This is one of the problems I have with ‘no salvation outside the Church’ and some Catholics’ teaching on it. I love and worship God with all my heart. I try my best to follow Jesus’ ways and be a better person. I cannot believe that he would not allow me a place in his kingdom simply because I was in the ‘wrong’ church, as the Holy See sees it. Interestingly Anglicans consider themselves both Catholic and protestant, but obviously His Holiness doesn’t. But I can’t understand why I wouldn’t be allowed to enter heaven just because I was in a slightly different church?
That is not what anyone has said in this thread. :nope:
 
No, actually it isn’t that clear. Are you saying once everyone gets to heaven they will now be 'catholic"? Do you mean in the sense all will be clear and we will have full understanding and there will no longer any differences between us? if yes, well thank you God.Or do you mean Mass is continued, etc.? While I have a good familiarity of the Mass and the Euchrist, why would there be any need of such in heaven? I would think that we shall spend a lot of time worshipping before the Throne .
I think the OP knew there would be confusion. I took the title and first post to mean those in heaven.

It’s also been clarified much in these pages that it is taught one doesn’t have to be a card carrying earth dwelling Catholic Church member to get to heaven.

But that doesn’t eliminate that Truth exists and can be known, or change the nature of what is true. For instance, there is sin and it does matter today, though we are past Jesus’ death which unlocked the gates of heaven for sinners. We have instruction and the institution of a sacrament from Jesus as to how our earthly selves can beg for our sins to be cleansed considering our nature.

We also have a guide that there is separation between cleansing and effect of sin. Similar to a cut on the arm. It can heal and leave a scar. Scars don’t affect us much in our nature, but considering things in heaven are pure, they must be dealt with. In our nature we can deal with sin scar’s with penance, retribution, suffering.
 
And yet, as I recall from recent Catholic/Lutheran dialogue, we can pray and hope for the salvation of those outside the Church (our varying definitions of Church aside for the moment).

Jon
Of course. This is what we live for.We call on the Saints to pray with us for this also.

This is probally the most important thing you could pray for someone.
 
This is one of the problems I have with ‘no salvation outside the Church’ and some Catholics’ teaching on it. I love and worship God with all my heart. I try my best to follow Jesus’ ways and be a better person. I cannot believe that he would not allow me a place in his kingdom simply because I was in the ‘wrong’ church, as the Holy See sees it. Interestingly Anglicans consider themselves both Catholic and protestant, but obviously His Holiness doesn’t. But I can’t understand why I wouldn’t be allowed to enter heaven just because I was in a slightly different church?
Well see you have to know the teaching of Christ and his Church in the Catholic faith. Then you would be just fine with it.

See Christ says he and his Church are one. The Church is not a human institution, it is a work of God an instrument and Sacrament of his commitment with her.

You know how the bible says Christ himself is the bridegroom. Like a marriage.

That is how Christ is joined to the Church it is a flesh union between Christ and the Church.

So we see Christ and the Church as one as Christ teaches us.

So if we were to say there is no salvation outside of Christ it would be the same as saying there is no salvation outside of the CC.

Christ=Catholic Church.😃
 
No, actually it isn’t that clear. Are you saying once everyone gets to heaven they will now be 'catholic"? Do you mean in the sense all will be clear and we will have full understanding and there will no longer any differences between us? if yes, well thank you God.Or do you mean Mass is continued, etc.? While I have a good familiarity of the Mass and the Euchrist, why would there be any need of such in heaven? I would think that we shall spend a lot of time worshipping before the Throne .
It helps me to think about the concept of being “in communion”. We will all be part of the same community in heaven, in Christ. We are not saved according to various individual beliefs. There is only one Christ, who is the truth. All who are in heaven will live in communion with Him and each other. He only established one community of believers, one Church.

This topic is more about what the Church is, rather than who’s in and who’s out and how they got here. We don’t know the answers to those questions.
 
It helps me to think about the concept of being “in communion”. We will all be part of the same community in heaven, in Christ. We are not saved according to various individual beliefs. There is only one Christ, who is the truth. All who are in heaven will live in communion with Him and each other. He only established one community of believers, one Church.

This topic is more about what the Church is, rather than who’s in and who’s out and how they got here. We don’t know the answers to those questions.
This is very close to what I have been saying for years to the non-Catholic heresy hunters and the (forgive me this term) more rabid catholics. …God looks down upon us, with all of our incomplete and imperfect understanding and sees us as His Church, all of us who have accepted Jesus Christ as our Lord and our Savior.
 
This is very close to what I have been saying for years to the non-Catholic heresy hunters and the (forgive me this term) more rabid catholics. …God looks down upon us, with all of our incomplete and imperfect understanding and sees us as His Church, all of us who have accepted Jesus Christ as our Lord and our Savior.
Well, not exactly. I do not have the time or the expertise really to discuss this with any weight or references. But these are the huge questions at the heart of the problem.
What is the Church?
Why does it exist?
Did Christ establish it?
Did he give authority to human beings and a structure to it, or is the Church merely a spiritual abstraction?
Can there be more than one Church, by definition, from Him who came to draw all people to himself?
 
I hope you are able to see the inconsistency in your position, tsk.

You seem to have no objection to excluding others from heaven–those who have not called on the name of Jesus…

So why do you reserve for yourself this right, while objecting to Catholicism for following this same paradigm?
No, I do not…It is not my place to exclude anyone from heaven. The Church has taken that same position.
 
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