To Be in Heaven, You Must Be Catholic

[EvangelCatholic]

EC-

As a former Protestant, I’m pretty familiar with the term, and given my longevity and activity level here, I have often been reminded and occasionally corrected by Protestants of all stripes.

That said, I think you are making my case for me. The fact that there are so many “confessions” with differing theological views is precisely what caused a number of influential Protestants from different camps to come together to define what they considered to be the core or “essential” beliefs of Christianity.

Yes, all of Christianity has produced many statements of faith such as the Orthodox ‘Confession of Dositheus’, the Roman Catholics Credo of the People of God [Pope Paul VI], Anglicans ‘39 Articles’ etc.

When you mentioned a group of Protestant leaders coming together to consider the “essential” beliefs, I am curious what exactly you are referring to.

 

[Didascalia]

If it is Christ’s Church, then **it cannot be imperfect **- it must teach the Truth, and only the Truth. If what we have is confused and contradictory, then it is not that which Christ gave to Peter, and empowered with the Holy Spirit. Heresy has no place in Christ’s Church.

Therefore, only one of the many organizations calling themselves “Christian” can be Christ’s Church - and it stands to reason that it must be the one He established on the Apostles and gave to Peter - the Roman Catholic Church.

A hypothetical question…
If Christ were to write a letter to our church today, in a fashion similar to
those that he sent to the churches in Asia, would that letter be
free from criticism?

 

[Billy_Buescher]

You can. For example, here is a visual aid which represents Protestant and Catholic theology.

Each purple oval represents a single, distinct Protestant denomination, and the circle formed at the center represents the famous “Essentials” that Protestants claim to agree upon.

The red Circle represents the Catholic Church. :dancing:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Wk8bqhPemSI/TwgyymSOD0I/AAAAAAAAAjk/2MkXsH90AGw/s1600/spirograph10.png

HI,

I have had numerous non-Catholics talk about the “essentials” but not one of the could show me in the Bible where the essentials and non-essentials are listed. Since most Protestans are Bible only, I would think that they could show me.

What I found is:

Mat 4:3 And the tempter came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread.”
Mat 4:4 But he answered, "It is written, “‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”

“Every word” is what I found, which, to me there is no dividing the Word of God into essentials and non-essentials.

 

[Didascalia]

Provocative title, eh?

I hoped to get your attention, because I’m floating this argument which I put together this morning.

1. Jesus only has one body.
2. To be in heaven, one must be a member of the body of Christ
3. The body of Christ is the Church.
4. The Church instituted by Christ has a name – the Catholic Church.
   Therefore, to be in heaven, one must be a member of the Catholic Church.

I anticipate some possible objection to 1 and much rejection to 4, but let’s see how it unfolds.

I look forward to reading your thoughts for and against.

Your post is provocative, as you admit it was deliberately designed to be, are you trying to win converts or offend other denominations?

 

[Billy_Buescher]

Your post is provocative, as you admit it was deliberately designed to be, are you trying to win converts or offend other denominations?

He forgot one item that I can think of:

(Eph 4:4) There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call—

(Eph 4:5) one Lord, one faith, one baptism,

(Eph 4:6) one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

 

[PRmerger]

A hypothetical question…
If Christ were to write a letter to our church today, in a fashion similar to
those that he sent to the churches in Asia,

Huh? Christ sent letters to churches in Asia?

would that letter be
free from criticism?

To answer your hypothetical…of course it would be free from criticism!

 

[PRmerger]

HI,

I have had numerous non-Catholics talk about the “essentials” but not one of the could show me in the Bible where the essentials and non-essentials are listed.

Yes. This is a stumper for any Bible Alone Christian who wants to profess that he and his fellow Christians from other churches agree on the “essentials”.

You will find that they can’t even agree on what these essentials are, and what Bible verses they use to tell them that these are essentials.

Oh, to be sure, when asked to show how they know what the Bible says are essential beliefs, many will claim that Verse A, B and C are essential…

but not a single person has ever been able to offer a Bible verse that supports their view that Verse A is essential.

To wit: someone may say John 3:16 is an essential. But when asked: what verse in the Bible tells you that John 3:16 is essential…nothing is forthcoming.

Therefore, saying John 3:16 is an essential is a man-made tradition. No one read, in a single page of the Bible, that John 3:16 is an essential belief.

Now, of course, there are essential beliefs. But we get this “list” from the Church, NOT from the Bible.

 

[TheBurningBush]

Why I ask myself, am I considering joining the Roman Church, when it is very evident that bitterness is just as prevalent in the “perfect” church as it is in any other? One day we will all give an account for every nasty, venomous, divisive and offensive word we have ever uttered. It is the mission in my lowly Presbyterian opinion, that a good Catholic should work for the edification of the Church. Your post is unworthy of the Magisterium.

 

[TheBurningBush]

Huh? Christ sent letters to churches in Asia?

To answer your hypothetical…**of course it would be free from criticism!/**QUOTE]

TELL THAT TO MY SODOMISED CLASSMATE WHO HUNG HIMSELF IN SHAME BECAUSE A PRIEST RAPED HIM!!!

 

[jmcrae]

A hypothetical question…
If Christ were to write a letter to our church today, in a fashion similar to
those that he sent to the churches in Asia, would that letter be
free from criticism?

You are correct that Jesus has much to say to His people regarding their faults and failings - and to save the paper and ink that would be required for such a letter (which would no doubt ascend as high as the Moon, and use more ink than currently exists on earth) He has given us the Sacrament of Reconciliation (also called Confession) in which He both corrects and forgives us.

It is the Church that is perfect - not the individuals who are in it.

 

[TheBurningBush]

Huh? Christ sent letters to churches in Asia?
Are you for real? You never heard of letters Christ gave John in revelation to the seven churches? I feel embarrassed for you! Heres a pointer…
Revelation 1:4
John to the seven churches which are in Asia. Grace be unto you and peace from him that is, and that was, and that is to come, and from the seven spirits which are before his throne,

 

[PRmerger]

Your post is unworthy of the Magisterium.

To whom is this post addressed?

 

[PRmerger]

Huh? Christ sent letters to churches in Asia?

Are you for real? You never heard of Johns letters to the seven churches? I feel embarrassed for you! Heres a pointer…
Revelation 1:4
John to the seven churches which are in Asia. Grace be unto you and peace from him that is, and that was, and that is to come, and from the seven spirits which are before his throne,

There is no need to be embarrassed.

Christ did not send those letters. It is St. John who penned the letters under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

 

[PRmerger]

You can. For example, here is a visual aid which represents Protestant and Catholic theology.

Once upon a time I made my own visual aid to limn how the Catholic Church contains the fullness of truth.

This was my version:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[jmcrae]

There is no need to be embarrassed.

Christ did not send those letters. It is St. John who penned the letters under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

I have to agree with BB on this one - those letters were to the Asian churches (Dioceses, in modern terms) from Jesus. St. John was the Bishop in charge of that district, which is why Jesus went through him instead of contacting each Diocese or even each parish directly. Having set up His chain of command, Jesus respected it and followed it, just as He had promised to Peter in Matthew 16.

 

[PRmerger]

I have to agree with BB on this one - those letters were to the Asian churches (Dioceses, in modern terms) from Jesus. St. John was the Bishop in charge of that district, which is why Jesus went through him instead of contacting each Diocese or even each parish directly. Having set up His chain of command, Jesus respected it and followed it, just as He had promised to Peter in Matthew 16.

Fair enough.

I have never heard that before. My understanding is that Jesus did not pen a single manuscript.

 

[PRmerger]

Fair enough.

I have never heard that before. My understanding is that Jesus did not pen a single manuscript.

Incidentally, if Christ was still alive and instructing John to write letters as a bishop to the 7 churches in Asia, how is it that John, in his dream, saw Him before the Eternal Throne in heaven?

Doesn’t this indicate that Christ had already died, resurrected and ascended when St. John wrote Revelation?

 

[jmcrae]

Fair enough.

I have never heard that before. My understanding is that Jesus did not pen a single manuscript.

He dictated it to John. It is one of a very few passages in Scripture that was dictated by God. (Jesus) Another is the Ten Commandments.

 

[squirel]

Yes it would. Are you kidding me. He is God. There would be no errors. Look how he handles the Jewish Pharisees… He knew the past present and future as he does now and always will. So. Yes. Is your answer.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Your post is provocative, as you admit it was deliberately designed to be, are you trying to win converts or offend other denominations?

I’m hoping to spark some thinking.