To Be in Heaven, You Must Be Catholic

[Church_Militant]

Well…(gulp) here we go! Actually I am only joking. I have no problem answering this question because, although I am not Catholic, but rather a protestant “I am a Believer”! I am not well versed on all books of the bible but have been studying it for just a few years.

For me, and I am speaking from my heart, I KNOW that I will meet our precious father in heaven. How do I know? Because, I believe Christ to be my Savior. He died for my sins…and those who have faith and believe in the Father and the Son will not die but have everlasting life. Obviously, not a direct quote–I’m NOT trying to quote scripture I just have to let you know that I have no qualms about being on that narrow path one day.

Presently I am part of a Spiritual Ministry at a Catholic Hospital…every week I visit patients who like me are either Christian/non-Catholics or people of other faiths. And, every week the Lord gives me words to help those in need. I have to give great Kudos to Sister Emily who has helped bridge this division between our denomination–for me. She shows me the Love of Christ in her every word, her every prayer-- God has put her in my life and I am forever blessed to have known her.

So, being one of the few protestants on this site, I can only state with all confidence and strength of His light within me that, “Yes, believers in the trinity go to Heaven”.

In Christ,

I’m a Believer

Works for me.

Note what the Catholic teaching on this above from our Catechism.

I know that there are many things that are new and different about our faith (to you), but we evangelize for the same reasons that you do. John Martignoni sums this up very well in his newsletter article called **Does God want everyone to be Catholic? **

 

[ufamtobie]

I find is odd that some Catholics don’t quote Pope Francis’ announcement that non-Catholic human beings are not excluded from heaven, even atheists who do good works.

en.radiovaticana.va/news/2013/08/25/pope_francis:_you_are_not_excluded!/en1-722638

Evangel Catholic,

The Father = God. The two sons = you and I. The Vineyard = The Catholic Church. Amen

The Catholic Church has been preaching this from day one have you not read Matt 21:3128But what think you? A certain man had two sons; and coming to the first, he said: Son, go work to day in my vineyard. 29And he answering, said: I will not. But afterwards, being moved with repentance, he went. 30And coming to the other, he said in like manner. And he answering, said: I go, Sir; and he went not. 31Which of the two did the father’s will? They say to him: The first. Jesus saith to them: Amen I say to you, that the publicans and the harlots shall go into the kingdom of God before you. 32For John came to you in the way of justice, and you did not believe him. But the publicans and the harlots believed him: but you, seeing it, did not even afterwards repent, that you might believe him.

EvangelCatholic, here is a CLUE you have been missing and it is: "Son, go work to day in my vineyard" The reason why Non-Catholic, Atheists, Publicans, Harlots, etc… etc… are not excluded from heaven, because at the end they accepted the Vineyard / Catholic Church, they accepted to do the will of God.

EvangelCatholic, you are not doing the Lords will, you have not accepted to work in the Vineyard the Catholic Church, you are not in full Communion with the Holy See. Even your subconscious /Holy Spirit is calling you to covert become Catholic there is why you call yourself EvangelCATHOLIC

EvangelCatholic, Have you not read Luke 6: 46 46And why call you me, Lord, Lord; and do not the things which I say? 47Every one that cometh to me, and heareth my words, and doth them, I will shew you to whom he is like. 48He is like to a man building a house, who digged deep, and laid the foundation upon a rock. And when a flood came, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and it could not shake it; for it was founded on a rock. 49But he that heareth, and doth not, is like to a man building his house upon the earth without a foundation: against which the stream beat vehemently, and immediately it fell, and the ruin of that house was great.

Luke 6: 46 Jesus Christ was referring to a house that was built on ROCK (ring any bells) the Catholic Church is built on ROCK. All others was built on sand because their house was not of God but man made. Martin Luther started a domino effect of houses / churches built on sand /earth thus the chaos since.

EvangelCatholic, The Catholic Church is the way to Jesus Christ, and you are not believing it, But the publicans, harlots, atheist, non-Catholics are believing it, but you seeing it, and are not Ignorant of the Catholic Church Teachings and not repenting afterwards that you might believe.

I hope / pray you find your way Home to.

I am Catholic through the Grace of God. Amen

Ufam Tobie

 

[Alizarin]

Doesn’t the Catechism answer this question?Quote:

Who belongs to the Catholic Church?

837 "Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of salvation given to the Church together with her entire organization, and who - by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion - are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but ‘in body’ not ‘in heart.’"321

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist."324

Where have I heard this before? oh yeah, I remember now…

Full membership: Roman Catholics
Associate membership: Orthodox, Protestants, and un-evangelized non-Christians who inhabit the spiritual country of Invincible Ignorance (even though they don’t know it)
No membership: we can’t tell, because baptism of desire could apply but only God would know if that’s the case.

The gate isn’t looking so narrow nowadays… :extrahappy:

Best idea ever: “qualitative and quantitative degrees”

 

[tskrobacz]

Well, in order to apply it to our discussion here you need to show that the Apostles, and their successors, the Bishops of the CC, have loosed the teaching that we must belong to the Body of Christ, the Catholic Church, in order to be in heaven.

They have not loosed this.

So not sure what your point is.

The great mystics and saints of the church have consistently professed a broader and all inclusive understanding:

“The church is precisely the state of communion of the whole world” - St. Augustine

“The body of the church is constituted by the people who existed from the beginning of the world until now.” - St. Thomas Aquinas

Any tribal view of “Church” is divisive and does not move us toward unity or the “Universal” definition of Catholic. My point is this topic does nothing to serve unity…it simply establishes a club in service of one’s ego to make claims that are beyond human understanding. The topic is about as un-Catholic as I could imagine.

 

[steve_b]

Where have I heard this before? oh yeah, I remember now…

Re: the selections from the CCC

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist."324

That does NOT say these people are “in” the Church. They are NOT Catholic nor are they “in” the Catholic Church

to explain

If one is “in” the Church they can receive the sacraments. If one can’t receive the sacraments in the Catholic Church for example, they are outside the Church. As the bishops say, written in most misselettes, Non Catholics are not invited to receive the Eucharist because that would acknowledge a union that doesn’t exist.

But one could say, what of a Catholic in mortal sin, they can’t receive the Eucharist in mortal sin. That’s true, yet they CAN receive when they receive the sacrament of reconcilliation. That is NOT the case for the Protestant no matter the stripe. They can’t receive because they are outside the Church.

The following is clearly what Jesus wants.

837 "Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of salvation given to the Church together with her entire organization, and who - by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion - are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but ‘in body’ not ‘in heart.’"321

Therefore, the will of God is expressed here John 17:20-23 for perfect unity in hierarchy under Peter, Matthew 16:13-19 , and perfect unity, ZERO division, in the whole Church , fed and ruled by Peter John 21:15-19 .

When one leaves Peter, (schism / division ) they leave the barque of Peter. Division is opposed to the will of God. It’s a mortal sin and if one remains in mortal sin, there is no salvation for them Galatians 5:19-21

Division comes from Satan whose motive is to sift people like wheat away from Peter which also sifts them away from Jesus…Luke 22:31-32 But Satan will be crushed under the feet of the Church of Rome by God Romans 16:17-20

 

[steve_b]

Well…(gulp) here we go! Actually I am only joking. I have no problem answering this question because, although I am not Catholic, but rather a protestant “I am a Believer”! I am not well versed on all books of the bible but have been studying it for just a few years.

For me, and I am speaking from my heart, I KNOW that I will meet our precious father in heaven. How do I know? Because, I believe Christ to be my Savior. He died for my sins…and those who have faith and believe in the Father and the Son will not die but have everlasting life. Obviously, not a direct quote–I’m NOT trying to quote scripture I just have to let you know that I have no qualms about being on that narrow path one day.

Presently I am part of a Spiritual Ministry at a Catholic Hospital…every week I visit patients who like me are either Christian/non-Catholics or people of other faiths. And, every week the Lord gives me words to help those in need. I have to give great Kudos to Sister Emily who has helped bridge this division between our denomination–for me. She shows me the Love of Christ in her every word, her every prayer-- God has put her in my life and I am forever blessed to have known her.

So, being one of the few protestants on this site, I can only state with all confidence and strength of His light within me that, “Yes, believers in the trinity go to Heaven”.

In Christ,

I’m a Believer

I’m glad sister is so helpful. What I’m going to share with you is designed to give you a nudge…and hopefully some things to think about on your journey of faith

The reason these promises are known to you is because of the Catholic Church that Jesus established. That’s the one and only Church Jesus established. And He desires absolute loyalty to Him, and Loyalty and unity in what He establishes. John 17:20-23 There is absolutely ZERO tollerance for division or dissent from the Church He establishes and builds on Peter Matthew 16:16-19 . Peter is to feed and rule Our Lord’s Church John 21:15-19 . If one divides from this Church, the will NOT inherit heaven
You have the bible to read because it was written to, by, and for the Catholic Church who also canonized the books. All the promises you read about, in the bible, concerning salvation, are written to and for the Catholic Church. Those promises weren’t given to just anybody. They weren’t written for nor given to joe six pak in Judea. They were written to and for the Church. If one wanted all those promises mentioned in scripture they had to be in the Church those promises were made to. That only makes sense since those who would leave the Church these promises are given to, would not inherit heaven if they left or stayed away. Romans 16:17-20 , Galatians 5:19-21

Your Protestant ancestry left the Catholic Church. An action that scripture as you can see condemns.

 

[JonNC]

Does it say anywhere that Joseph was married prior to Mary? I understand their age difference and knew that Joseph died leaving Mary a widow. But this scripture shows the Joseph and Mary did have sexual relations, “But he had no union with her as her husband until she had borne her firstborn Son; and he called His name Jesus.” Union is referring to sex. So she’s not the “ever virgin”

When Matthew [1:25] says that Joseph did not know Mary carnally until she had brought forth her son, it does not follow that he knew her subsequently; on the contrary, it means that he never did know her . - Luther

Belief in the perpetual virginity of the Blessed Virgin Mary was a given, even among the reformers, Lutheran and otherwise. Luther goes on to say:

The form of expression used by Matthew is the common idiom, as if I were to say, ‘Pharaoh believed not Moses, until he was drowned in the Red Sea.’ Here it does not follow that Pharaoh believed later, after he had drowned; on the contrary, it means that he never did believe. Similarly when Matthew says that Joseph did not know Mary carnally until she had brought forth her son, it does not follow that he knew her subsequently; on the contrary, it means that he never did know her. Again, the Red Sea overwhelmed Pharaoh before he got across. Here too, it does not follow that Pharaoh got across later, after the Red Sea had overwhelmed him, but rather that he did not get across at all. In like manner, when Matthew says, ‘She was found to be with child before they came together,’ it does not follow that Mary subsequently lay with Joseph, but rather that she did not lie with him.

Jon

 

[Stilldreamn]

Luther on Mary (1541):

Now, although Mary was not required to do this – the Law of Moses having no claim over her, for she had given birth without pain and her virginity remained unsullied – nevertheless, she kept quiet and submitted herself to the common law of all women, and let herself be accounted unclean. She was, without doubt, a pure, chaste virgin before the birth, in the birth, and after the birth, and could certainly have gone out of the house after giving birth, not only because of her exemption from the Law, but because of the interrupted soundness of her body. For her son did not detract from her virginity, but actually strengthened it…. [House Postils III:256]

 

[steve_b]

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

838 “The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter.”322** Those “who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church**.”323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound “that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist.”324 (818, 1271, 1399)

Hi Randy,

Just a few thoughts

If any validly baptized person is therefore “in” the Catholic Church, by virtue of their baptism, then they can ALL receive the Eucharist in the Catholic Church…which we know they can’t do. The bishops statement that we see in many of the misselettes, regarding communion, non-Catholics are not offered the Eucharist because that would signal a unity that doesn’t exist. ergo they are NOT “in” the Catholic Church they are outside, and they are NOT Catholics.

For example

Anglicans have valid baptism. And they often call themselves Catholic. The CC doesn’t consider them Catholic. So baptism doesn’t change THEIR status as Protestants because of baptism. The same goes for all Protestants, and in extension, those who want to call themselves Catholic and aren’t
catholic.com/quickquestions/why-cant-anglo-catholics-receive-the-eucharist-at-a-roman-rite-mass

and

catholic.com/tracts/who-can-receive-communion

 

[steve_b]

Jon-

My own opinion (and I could be completely wrong) is that in heaven, everyone will be “Catholic” -

It’s guranteed. There is Zero room for division of any kind from what He establishes John 17:20-23 It has to be perfect union because that’s what He wants.

 

[PRmerger]

The great mystics and saints of the church have consistently professed a broader and all inclusive understanding:

“The church is precisely the state of communion of the whole world” - St. Augustine

“The body of the church is constituted by the people who existed from the beginning of the world until now.” - St. Thomas Aquinas

Were you aware that there were no Protestants during the times of Augustine and Aquinas?

And therefore these quotes could certainly not apply to them.

Any tribal view of “Church” is divisive and does not move us toward unity or the “Universal” definition of Catholic. My point is this topic does nothing to serve unity…it simply establishes a club in service of one’s ego to make claims that are beyond human understanding. The topic is about as un-Catholic as I could imagine.

I don’t understand why you get to be exclusive and Catholics don’t.

 

[steve_b]

The great mystics and saints of the church have consistently professed a broader and all inclusive understanding:

“The church is precisely the state of communion of the whole world” - St. Augustine

“The body of the church is constituted by the people who existed from the beginning of the world until now.” - St. Thomas Aquinas

As a suggestion,

Even if I was very familiar with Augustine’s writings, and Augustine wrote alot of text, from which work did that quote come from? When a quote is not properly referenced, and neither of those quotes is properly referenced, then anyone could challenge those quotes as being invalid. I looked for that Augustine quote and couldn’t find it.

here’s a further example.

Here’s a popular “quote” often given by Protestants on these forums.

“To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord” - St Paul

That quote is not properly referenced, and actually Paul never said that. What he said was

We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. [2 Cor 5:8]

That’s a big difference from what the original quote stated.

Once one can see the source properly referenced, and they can read it from the source, one can make sure the quote is both accurate, and they can see the context just in case a quote is being taken out of context…
t:

Any tribal view of “Church” is divisive and does not move us toward unity or the “Universal” definition of Catholic. My point is this topic does nothing to serve unity…it simply establishes a club in service of one’s ego to make claims that are beyond human understanding. The topic is about as un-Catholic as I could imagine.

From the beginning, the ECF’s knew the Catholic Church wasn’t some nebulous term or adjective. While Ignatius was a disciple of St John and was made a bishop by the apostles, he didn’t invent the name Catholic Church. No one challenged the name. And by Nicea, it’s a name that has been used for ~300 years.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11003962&postcount=22

Be sure and read the internal links. Everybody knew specifically who and where the Catholic Church and Catholic Faith could be found.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Hi Randy,

Just a few thoughts

If any validly baptized person is therefore “in” the Catholic Church, by virtue of their baptism, then they can ALL receive the Eucharist in the Catholic Church…which we know they can’t do. The bishops statement that we see in many of the misselettes, regarding communion, non-Catholics are not offered the Eucharist because that would signal a unity that doesn’t exist. ergo they are NOT “in” the Catholic Church they are outside, and they are NOT Catholics.

For example

Anglicans have valid baptism. And they often call themselves Catholic. The CC doesn’t consider them Catholic. So baptism doesn’t change THEIR status as Protestants because of baptism. The same goes for all Protestants, and in extension, those who want to call themselves Catholic and aren’t
catholic.com/quickquestions/why-cant-anglo-catholics-receive-the-eucharist-at-a-roman-rite-mass

and

catholic.com/tracts/who-can-receive-communion

They are not “formal” members of the Catholic Church.

 

[steve_b]

They are not “formal” members of the Catholic Church.

schism / dissent / factions / etc etc whichever term one wants to use, indicates one was once a formal member but is no longer. Scripture points to bad consequences for that situation.

The 2 links I gave focused on unity. Both links talked of a unity that does not exist between Catholics and non-Catholics.Thus non-Catholics can’t participate in the sacraments of the Church… or until as you would point out, they become formall members. i.e. come to full union with the pope and the Church

whether formal membership, or complete unity is stressed, It seems to be a distinction without much of a difference. As long as one is not in full union with the Church, it’s the same as not being a formal member. Eitherway, without the sacraments, an average person is in huge trouble. Especially since Jesus gave us the sacraments for our salvation.

 

[Billy_Buescher]

Does it say anywhere that Joseph was married prior to Mary? I understand their age difference and knew that Joseph died leaving Mary a widow. But this scripture shows the Joseph and Mary did have sexual relations, “But he had no union with her as her husband until she had borne her firstborn Son; and he called His name Jesus.” Union is referring to sex. So she’s not the “ever virgin”

Hi,

If I under stand your logic the the following must also be true:

1Co 15:24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.

Jesus is going to stop reigning after His enemies are under His feet?

(Joh 5:17) But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.”

God the Father is not working any more?

(2Sa 6:23) Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death.

Did Michal have her children after her death?

 

[slippy]

You all realise that each and every othe religion thinks exactly the same with exactly the same conviction? They will say and have exactly the same arguments on their side.
This is why reading posts on here is entertaining.

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

Stay on the topic please.

 

[slippy]

You all realise that each and every othe religion thinks exactly the same with exactly the same conviction? They will say and have exactly the same arguments on their side.
This is why reading posts on here is entertaining.

 

[slippy]

You all realise that each and every othe religion thinks exactly the same with exactly the same conviction? They will say and have exactly the same arguments on their side.
This is why reading posts on here is entertaining.

 

[PRmerger]

Stay on the topic please.

Can you point to something from Hinduism that says everyone in heaven is Hindu?