P
PRmerger
Guest
Can you point to something from Hinduism that says everyone in heaven is Hindu?
- Status
C
clem456
Guest
What are your convictions slippy?
J
jacobhalo
Guest
No one goes to the father except through me. Non-Christians cannot get into heaven unless they acknowledge that Jesus is our savior and messiah.
F
ffg
Guest
Do we really need to run through this again? Talk about a show stopper.
Again - No person on this world has the ability to tell another they are not going to heaven. God’s mercy is bigger than this world’s nature.
For those who think otherwise: To whom much is given, much is expected. In other words - those in the know better work HARD to have a chance at judgement time.
As the Gospel of the day was that of the 10 virgin’s, of which I love. Preparedness could be argued to include Christian or specifically Catholic.
But that is not a judgement against others, it is a guide that while we are breathing humans, we have the ability to grow in relationship with God and should do so in the hope he knows us when he opens that door.
S
steve_b
Guest
When Paul said the following
Gal 5: 19 Now the works of the flesh are plain: immorality, impurity, licentiousness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Because of the topic of the thread, I selected just one of those sins mentioned. In the Greek, that word dissension = διχοστασίαι, I left the link operable for the explanation.
If one dissents / divides / leaves the Catholic Church, and remains so, they will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Q: Is that Paul making that judgement?
C
clem456
Guest
Maybe this way:
Jesus redeems us on the cross. He is our savior. For us to accept and attain salvation requires the cooperation of our free will.
I
Isaiah45_9
Guest
What is belittling is to pick and choose to follow what our Lord said instead of following everything that He said.
Pay careful notice to the [if] and [unless] from His words.
Also, cheap grace would belittle His work.
God judges salvation - not you or me.
S
SteveVH
Guest
Jesus’ redemption of the world opened the doors of heaven and the doors of our prisons. We are now, by accepting the grace of redemption, able to enter the kingdom of heaven. But in order to do this we must leave our prisons of sin and we do that through accepting the gift which is demonstrated by how we live our lives in light of the teachings of Christ. Christ’s redemption did not stop us from sinning and if we continue to persist in sin, thus rejecting the gift, we will not be saved even though we have been redeemed. I can pay your bail, but I cannot force you to come out of the prison.
A
Alizarin
Guest
Then you’ve only done half the work needed to truly save me.
Or you could call that grace amazing instead of cheap and say it magnifies His Divine Mercy.
That implies a partial redemption, a partial clearing of debt, doesn’t it?
P
PRmerger
Guest
Jesus died for our redemption.
Our salvation requires our cooperation. If we don’t make it, it’s all our doing. We make up what is lacking.
A
Alizarin
Guest
That does NOT say these people are “in” the Church. They are NOT Catholic nor are they “in” the Catholic Church
Yes it does. It says it right there. In that sentence. “…certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church”
Which goes to the point someone made a long time ago in this thread: that us Protestants are Catholic even if we don’t know it, or care to be.
Not a position I agree with, but definitely the position clearly stated in the CCC, if by Catholic Church you mean universal community of baptized, believing Christians. Some people on this thread have asserted that as the definition. Others have used a different definition. Until we clearly define and agree upon the meaning of “catholic” and “church” (and it hasn’t been done yet in this thread), arguing over membership is pointless.
A
Alizarin
Guest
There ya go. According to that line of thought, He did only some of the work, despite the fact He said “it is finished”. We have to do the rest. But how do we accomplish what Jesus Himself couldn’t or wouldn’t accomplish (by this line of reasoning)?
But we should get back to the OP’s topic…
P
pablope
Guest
When Jesus said it is finished…did He mean His work is finished and ours as well…or does it mean…His work on the cross is finished and thus, begins ours…for did He not say…to carry our crosses too?
If we are to carry our crosses too…does it mean we do not have to do anything?
P
PRmerger
Guest
I am only saying what the Bible says, Alizarin. We make up what is lacking.
R
Randy_Carson
Guest
Okay.
- To be saved it is necessary to be a Christian.
- To be a Christian it is necessary to be a member of Christ’s Church.
- To be a member of Christ’s Church it is necessary to be a member of the Catholic Church.
- To be a member of the Catholic Church it is necessary to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.
- Therefore, it is necessary for salvation to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.
I
Isaiah45_9
Guest
Christ’s work is finished.
How about yours and mine? Do we believe? Do we become vessels of His justice and mercy? Branches in the vine to give good fruit - is our work finished?
Or do we press on towards the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus (Philippians 3:14) - working out our salvation in fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12) - For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed (Romans 13:11)?
T
tomjua
Guest
To I am a believer:
Stick with Sister Emily. She has all the grace to impress you because she is a Catholic and there is so much more there than you can learn.
Stick with Sister Emily. She has all the grace to impress you because she is a Catholic and there is so much more there than you can learn.
S
steve_b
Guest
Think about that statement.Yes it does. It says it right there. In that sentence. "…certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church"
Which goes to the point someone made a long time ago in this thread: that us Protestants are Catholic even if we don’t know it, or care to be.
Intention is everything.
Let’s look at this from the practical position. If protestants are Catholic they could receive the Eucharist in the Catholic Church. Protestants can’t do that. Why? As the bishops say, it presupposes a unity that doesn’t exist. So where do people get the idea they are “in” the Church? BTW, How do you take that? It’s obvious to me they are outside the Church. They are not Catholic and they are NOT “in” the Church. Do you have another explanation?
A:
That’s NOT my understanding of what Catholic means.
Melkite bishop John said it well.
According to the Catholic teaching, Christ did not create a church with five heads of equal importance. He established One Holy Catholic and Apostolic church whose invisible head is the Lord, but whose visible head is the Pope of Rome.
The Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches states it in these terms: “The bishop of the Church of Rome, in whom resides the office (munus) given in a special way by the Lord to Peter, first of the Apostles and to be transmitted to his successors, is head of the college of bishops, the Vicar of Christ and Pastor of the entire Church on earth; therefore in virtue of his office (munus) he enjoys supreme, full, immediate and universal ordinary power in the Church which he can always freely exercise.” (Canon 43 of the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches)
If an Orthodox subscribes to the Canon quoted above, he/she can be called Catholic and be considered “united to Rome” or in full communion with the Catholic Church.
https://melkite.org/eparchy/bishop-j…ited-with-rome
If that is so for Orthodox who have valid sacraments, how could this apply to Protestants who don’t have the sacramentsa because they have no valid orders?
A:
All the proper definitions are there. There is no confusion.
S
SteveVH
Guest
No I have done everything necessary to save you. The door has been opened. You are the one who must walk out of your own free will. We do have a responsibility in our own salvation. We must respond to the grace given to us at the cross. It has been accomplished. We must walk through the gate, which is Christ.
- Status