To Be in Heaven, You Must Be Catholic

  • Thread starter Thread starter Randy_Carson
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Tomdstone said:
According to the papal bull Unam Sanctam you have to be subject to the Roman Pontiff in order to be saved. This bull was infallible, was it not? It says that the pope is declaring, proclaiming and defining the teaching:
Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.
However, today it is taught that a Jew and other non-Christians can be saved. Did the Catholic Church make a mistake and fall into error when it declared, proclaimed and defined that you have to be subject to the Roman Pontiff in order to be saved?
Click to expand...
Non-
christians can be saved if on their death beds that proclaim Jesus as their savior.
 
yogosans14 said:
Mhm, wheres your evidence?
Click to expand...
Yogo-

The Catholic Church teaches the the Eucharist really is the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus. After all, Jesus said, “The bread which I shall give is my flesh for the life of the world.”

He didn’t give us a symbol or a metaphor; He gave us His flesh and blood.

Anglicans and Lutherans believe in the real presence, but most Protestants do not.

I’m not sure what your denominational affiliation is, but odds are yours does not believe in the real presence.
 
PRmerger said:
… you object to Catholicism saying you are a Christian but are subject to the vicar of Christ.
Click to expand...
This is not my teaching, but it is the explicit teaching of the E. Orthodox Church, as I understand it to be. They reject the universal jurisdiction of the Roman Pope and say that they do not have to be subject to the Roman Pope in order to be saved. They are subject to their own bishops who in turn are subject to their Patriarchs, such as Patriarch Bartholomew. They do not accept that the Patriarch of Constantinople is subject to the Roman Pontiff.
 
PRmerger said:
No one is saying that he’s not in heaven.

Only that there was just one person who *has to *go to heaven–Mary. Emphasis on the “has to”.
Click to expand...
I Disagree. The Thief also “has to” be in Heaven or else Jesus is a liar and Christianity is a false faith.
 
PRmerger said:
No one is saying that he’s not in heaven.

Only that there was just one person who *has to *go to heaven–Mary. Emphasis on the “has to”.
Click to expand...
Do you disagree with what Jesus has said concerning the good thief - that he was to go to paradise? If Jesus said so, then the good thief has to go to heaven? I believe you are in error when you say that the good thief does not have to go to heaven, after Jesus said he would be going to heaven. After all, Jesus is Lord of the universe, and He is the one who decides who goes to heaven.
 
Tomdstone said:
This is not my teaching, but it is the explicit teaching of the E. Orthodox Church, as I understand it to be. They reject the universal jurisdiction of the Roman Pope and say that they do not have to be subject to the Roman Pope in order to be saved. They are subject to their own bishops who in turn are subject to their Patriarchs, such as Patriarch Bartholomew. They do not accept that the Patriarch of Constantinople is subject to the Roman Pontiff.
Click to expand...
Sure. No one has said anything to the contrary.

Muslims do not believe that Jesus is Lord.

Doesn’t change the fact that He is their Lord.
 
Avdima said:
I Disagree. The Thief also “has to” be in Heaven or else Jesus is a liar and Christianity is a false faith.
Click to expand...
“Has to” refers to “because it is right”. And that refers to Mary only.

Of course the Good Thief, St. Dismas, is in heaven. But he did not “have to” be there. He could have gone to hell, because that is what we all deserve.
 
Tomdstone said:
Do you disagree with what Jesus has said concerning the good thief - that he was to go to paradise? If Jesus said so, then the good thief has to go to heaven? I believe you are in error when you say that the good thief does not have to go to heaven, after Jesus said he would be going to heaven. After all, Jesus is Lord of the universe, and He is the one who decides who goes to heaven.
Click to expand...
What the Good Thief deserved, as do we all, is hell.

So he did not have to go to heaven.

But he is there, praying for you and me. 🙂
 
PRmerger said:
Sure. No one has said anything to the contrary.

Muslims do not believe that Jesus is Lord.

Doesn’t change the fact that He is their Lord.
Click to expand...
The question was whether or not they are subject to the Roman Pontiff.
 
PRmerger said:
Yes, you are.

Just like Muslims are the creatures of Jesus Christ.

Whether you all acknowledge it or not.
Click to expand...
It is not a matter of acknowledging as far as the E. Orthodox are concerned. It is a matter of definitively rejecting the idea entirely. And yet, they are allowed to receive the Roman Catholic Sacraments, according to the RC teaching, even though they totally reject the universal papal jurisdiction.
 
Tomdstone said:
It is not a matter of acknowledging as far as the E. Orthodox are concerned. It is a matter of definitively rejecting the idea entirely. And yet, they are allowed to receive the Roman Catholic Sacraments, according to the RC teaching, even though they totally reject the universal papal jurisdiction.
Click to expand...
Yes. And the Muslims definitively reject the divinity of Christ.

Doesn’t mean that Christ *isn’t *divine. And that they aren’t required to believe in his divinity.

Similarly, even if the EO reject the “idea entirely” (which, BTW, they don’t), that doesn’t mean it isn’t true. They are indeed subject to the Roman Pontiff.
 
PRmerger said:
Yes. And the Muslims definitively reject the divinity of Christ.

Doesn’t mean that Christ *isn’t *divine. And that they aren’t required to believe in his divinity.

Similarly, even if the EO reject the “idea entirely” (which, BTW, they don’t), that doesn’t mean it isn’t true. They are indeed subject to the Roman Pontiff.
Click to expand...
The EO are working under a framework of collegiality and don’t see themselves subject to the Roman Pontiff. They reject the idea. The Greek Orthodox, for example, are under the authority of the Greek Patriarch of Constantinople, who is not subject to the Roman Pontiff. If the Greek Patriarch were subject to the Roman Pontiff, he would agree with the Roman doctrine of the Immaculate Conception and the papal infallibility, which he does not. If, as you claim, the Greek Patriarch were subject to the Roman Pontiff, why has not the Roman Pontiff excommunicated him for holding teachings contrary to what is taught by the RC Church?
 
Tomdstone said:
The EO are working under a framework of collegiality and don’t see themselves subject to the Roman Pontiff. They reject the idea. The Greek Orthodox, for example, are under the authority of the Greek Patriarch of Constantinople, who is not subject to the Roman Pontiff.
Click to expand...
Yes. And the Muslims reject the divinity of Christ.

That doesn’t mean that they are not subject to Him.
 
Tomdstone said:
If, as you claim, the Greek Patriarch were subject to the Roman Pontiff, why has not the Roman Pontiff excommunicated him for holding teachings contrary to what is taught by the RC Church?
Click to expand...
Because they are in schism, Tomdstone, which is even more of an excommunication than excommunication.

Nevertheless, they are subject to the Roman Pontiff.

Just like the Muslims, who are even further “excommunicated” from Catholicism are subject o Christ…

even if they deny His divinity.

Doesn’t change the fact that they are all subject to these Truths: Jesus is Divine. The Pope is the vicar of Christ.
 
Avdima said:
I Disagree. The Thief also “has to” be in Heaven or else Jesus is a liar and Christianity is a false faith.
Click to expand...
Heaven was not created for the thief, though. It was created for Mary. The thief gets to go because Mary said “Yes” to the Angel and brought Jesus into the world.

If Mary had said, 'No, thank you," she would be the only person in Heaven; the rest of us, including the thief, would be - um - somewhere less pleasant.
 
PRmerger said:
Because they are in schism, Tomdstone, which is even more of an excommunication than excommunication.
Click to expand...
What you are saying doesn’t make sense because Pope Paul VI has officially lifted the excommunication of the Orthodox.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top