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steve_b
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That’s why there is judgement, each soul is judged by Jesus at their death.
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Randy_Carson
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Give that man a cookie! :clapping:
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PRmerger
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ufamtobie
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Jon, Hear yourself, “I don’t see”. JonNC, it is not about what you see, or what you feel, or what you want, it is about what The Catholic Church Teaches. You come to know the Truth you are not Ignorant you are a smart man. Don’t let “mitigating factors” separate you, from the Church you know you ought to be a full member of.
It is a sin, even a mortal sin, because you Love Jesus Christ but you are not doing His will, one must love both Jesus Christ and be a full member of His One Church.
If you had never come to CAF or any other Catholic website learned the Catholic Churches Teachings re: there can only be Salvation through the Catholic Church then you would have no sin because you would be Ignorant of this Teachings. But now that you see / know and have frankly rejected it, where does it leave you, in the Catholic Churches teachings?
2 Peter 2: 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of justice, than after they have known it, to turn back from that holy commandment which was delivered to them.
Jon, please don’t be like the Man in the Bible who buried his talent.
Ufam Tobie
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RemoRH
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Good title. As far as I am aware the history of the christian church went like this. When the apostles recieved the spirit they, all fired up now, spread out to evangelise. Peter stayed in antioch (spelling may be off) while paul went out. Any issues were brought to the elders in the cities where the gospel was spread and if they couldnt sort it out then it went to peter. I think that is how the pope system started. Paul went out and spread the gosple, from there I believe the apostolic church began (apostle) and catholic (universal) stayed with peter. At least thats my understanding of it. As far as the other spin off churches I believe they came about as a result of arguments and differences in opinion. That being said I dont think when we get to heaven God’s gonna be like “so what denomination were you??”. All truth if it be true comes from God.
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Alizarin
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From all my conversations with cafeteria Catholics (and living in the Boston area I’ve known a lot of them over the decades) they know very well that they violate church doctrine when they do the things they do. And they’re happy to do so anyway, adamant in the belief that they know better than Rome. And as if it wasn’t bad enough to begin with, it got even worse after the child abuse scandal hit the archdiocese.
Belief isn’t there anymore, obedience is absent, actions are incongruous with church doctrine, and it’s not just here that these conditions exist. But still this idea of “unity” in the Church is promulgated.
Now you are correct of course to say that Protestants have the same problem, but at least they admit to it. By admitting to it, they avoid the charge of hypocrisy.
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PRmerger
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This is true. But when you enter, you will be Catholic.
Amen!
And there’s only one denomination which has the fullness of truth. All the other ones are partially true, in some form or other.
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Randy_Carson
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Nicely put.
Peter was in Antioch and later in Rome. He went back to Jerusalem for the Council of Acts 15 and then back to Rome where he was martyred around 63-65 AD.
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Randy_Carson
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I agree that this sad state of affairs exists.
Personally, I think it’s time to clean house, but our bishops don’t seem to have the guts to prune the vine. IMHO, the church would be STRONGER if it were smaller and more unified.
Then, frankly, I think some of those pruned would make their way back once they saw how on fire the remnant was.
But I don’t get to make that call.
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PRmerger
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Well, unless these cafeteria Catholics have procured an abortion, they are not excommunicated but simply* rebellious and defiant.
(I doubt they have incurred excommunication through any of the 7 other means (see article cited earlier). Unless you know someone who has personally and physically attacked the pope?
)*simply–ha. Euphemism being applied here.
This is a great tragedy, to be sure.
The Church is One. The Church is Holy.
Its people? Not so much.
Yes. No one can charge Protestantism with hypocrisy, as it applies to “I can read the Bible and come to my own doctrines, thank you very much!”
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RemoRH
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Lol loving the patriotism but I think some people focus on the wrong this. Remember we are christian first then Catholic. Jesus wasnt catholic, wasnt even christian, yet we are called to be like him. Insisting that catholic is “superior” in some way really justt isnt a very christian thing to say. I am catholic, went through rcia and understood and believed not because I believed it was better than any other denomination but because it makes sense (although conversion can only be the work of the Spirit). Sunday our readings and sermon was about humbling ourselves, so as not be embarrassed at God’s massive party. If we keep our minds fixed on catholic is right and others are wrong, I believe we run the risk of loosing what it means to be Christian. We are called into a relationship with Christ, and that is what should be the focus, having Christ central, not Catholicism. As catholic I know and believe things, and as an angilcan I used to know and believe things. I dont think any of that matters because I’ve always had a relationship with Christ trying to keep Him central.
End of essay
End of essay
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PRmerger
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Truth matters, Remo.
And if you* have joined a fallible church, you are going to be following a fallible pastor who may lead you into error.
Correction: he/she WILL lead you into error, because that is exactly what fallible means. At some point, he/she is going to err.
*you: generic “you”. Not a personal “you”.
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Randy_Carson
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Remo-
All we are saying is “Give peas a chance.” :bounce::bounce::bounce:
I’m kidding.
All we are saying is that there is only one body of believers and anyone who is admitted into heaven must be somehow connected to that body.
Oh, that and the fact that the body was first called Catholic at the end of the first century in Antioch. But other than that…
What we are NOT saying is that in order to merit heaven, someone must be in formal communion with the Pope in this life. However, the reactions to the OP have been fascinating and entertaining.
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RemoRH
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I get what everyone is saying, and peas are awesome, but are we not being a bit jugdemental? Would the catholic get into heaven for just being catholic? What about the people who has never heard of Catholicism but some how lives a God fearing life devoid of catholic rituals?
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Randy_Carson
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Maybe. Discerning is a good word, too.
Nope. Remember, the premise is that “if you are” not “in order to be” in heaven.
They may be there also. And in the course of this thread, we have discussed formal and informal communion, absolute and normative necessities, and explicit and implicit desire for baptism.
You’re just coming in after the show already started.
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PRmerger
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I respectfully ask: why do you get to judge people for being judgmental, Remo?
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RemoRH
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Lol ok true I am joining this convo a bit late. Sorry if I stepped on a few toes here guus and girls. I had no intention of calling anyone judgemental and it wasn’t directed at anyone. Thats why I phrased it as a question and also using we and not you (plural), but if anyone was offended I apologise sincerely.
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PRmerger
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Speaking for myself, I wasn’t offended.
I rarely get offended, BTW. Just not my nature.
But I am saying that it’s odd to tell people they’re being judgmental. For that is a judgment in itself, is it not?
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Randy_Carson
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No worries.
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Alizarin
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For the first time ever, we agree 100%
We should mark this occasion with a commemorative plaque, maybe…
Yes, consistently rebellious and defiant of doctrinal truths. Each a pope unto himself/herself. Which goes to underline my initial point: unity is an illusion. It exists only in theory, not in practice. Which is why I agree with Randy’s echoing of Benedict XVI’s sentiment that possibly the best thing the RCC could do is to prune its branches; become smaller, holier.
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