To Be in Heaven, You Must Be Catholic

[PRmerger]

The Holy Spirit indwells in me, I dont see how this has anything to do with the Roman Catholic Church?

Well, the ONLY way you know that the Holy Spirit can indwell in the human person is because you read that in the Bible.

And the only way you know that what the Bible says belongs in the Bible is because…

wait for it…
wait for it…

[SIGN]The Catholic Church discerned this for you![/SIGN]

 

[Tomdstone]

Nobody intentionally gets Baptism of Blood or Baptism of Desire. These only occur if a person who was intended to be baptized with water dies a martyr’s death (blood), or dies before baptism can be completed (desire).

Not true. A heathen may obtain baptism of desire without actually intending to be baptized by water. A heathen, believing, even though in a confused way, in a God whose will should be done and desiring to do that will whatever it may be, has Baptism of desire.

 

[yogosans14]

Well, the ONLY way you know that the Holy Spirit can indwell in the human person is because you read that in the Bible.

And the only way you know that what the Bible says belongs in the Bible is because…

wait for it…
wait for it…

[SIGN]The Catholic Church discerned this for you![/SIGN]

I dont remember asking the Catholic Church for understanding of the Scriptures, I only ask the Holy Spirit the 3rd person of the Trinity, the author of the Scriptures to give me understanding.

 

[PRmerger]

I dont remember asking the Catholic Church for understanding of the Scriptures, I only ask the Holy Spirit the 3rd person of the Trinity, the author of the Scriptures to give me understanding.

Sure. No one has argued anything to the contrary.

What we are arguing, however, is that you give tacit submission to the authority of the Catholic Church to tell you what* is* Scripture.

So it is particularly ungrateful for a person to reject the Catholic Church while accepting her book, the Holy Bible.

 

[SteveVH]

Not true. A heathen may obtain baptism of desire without actually intending to be baptized by water. A heathen, believing, even though in a confused way, in a God whose will should be done and desiring to do that will whatever it may be, has Baptism of desire.

That is up to God to decide. If you want to be sure, best to do it the way we were told to do it.

Yes, we have a merciful God, but Jesus didn’t command the Church to go out and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, just for grins. He really wants us to get baptized. To presume one will be saved through Baptism of Desire is a sin in itself; the sin of presumption. Only God knows the true desire of the heart.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

I have to disagree with you there. Personally, that kind of trust in God cost me a lot…a lot of my pride, the pride that encouraged me to think I could earn my way into heaven.

Actually, it is a lot more than that. It’s not “earning” my way into heaven - because that is impossible. It is about realizing that every time I sin, I re-crucify Christ. That when I let my pride get in the way and make myself an authority, believing that I know better than anyone else about a Scripture passage - I create division in Christ’s Church.

To really remove our pride, is to be teachable, humble and understand that Christ left a teaching authority to accomplish His purpose - “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Teaching them all that I have taught you” (Paraphrased from the Great Commission).

Teaching them - I have to become teachable to those who have been chosen by the Holy Spirit with the gift of teaching. I either trust Christ completely or I don’t - there is no halfway point here.

Many of us Protestants first need evidence that the RCC is on the right track.

This made me chuckle - not in mockery but because of this fact:

We have done everything humanly possible to destroy the Catholic Church. And still it stands. A miracle isn’t it!!!

 

[yogosans14]

Sure. No one has argued anything to the contrary.

What we are arguing, however, is that you give tacit submission to the authority of the Catholic Church to tell you what* is* Scripture.

So it is particularly ungrateful for a person to reject the Catholic Church while accepting her book, the Holy Bible.

Her book?um no, Its gods book written directly to man. God is the author of this perfect book, not a demoniation. Again this goes back to yours vs my definition of what the “Church” really is.

 

[dronald]

Her book?um no, Its gods book written directly to man. God is the author of this perfect book, not a demoniation. Again this goes back to yours vs my definition of what the “Church” really is.

Did God author Hebrews?
Did God author the Didache?
Did God author 1Clement?

Tell me how you distinguish the three?

Actually, throw the Shepherd of Hermas in there as well.

 

[Tomdstone]

That is up to God to decide. If you want to be sure, best to do it the way we were told to do it.

Yes, we have a merciful God, but Jesus didn’t command the Church to go out and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, just for grins. He really wants us to get baptized. To presume one will be saved through Baptism of Desire is a sin in itself; the sin of presumption. Only God knows the true desire of the heart.

However, did you say that you must have the intention of baptism of water in order to obtain baptism of desire?

Nobody intentionally gets Baptism of Blood or Baptism of Desire. These only occur if a person who was intended to be baptized with water dies a martyr’s death (blood), or dies before baptism can be completed (desire).

That is not what the infallible Roman Catholic Pope has said:
Pope Saint Pius X.’s Catechism of Christian Doctrine, paragraph 132 states:
“A person outside the Church by his own fault, and who dies without perfect contrition, will not be saved. But he who finds himself outside without fault of his own, and who lives a good life, can be saved by the love called charity, which unites unto God, and in a spiritual way also to the Church, that is, to the soul of the Church.”

 

[ChristCrucified]

To Be in Heaven, You Must Be Catholic

When a person puts their denomination above Christ’s finished work on the cross, this faith is not saving faith but a superficial faith in oneself and/or man. Faith that is not in Christ and Christ alone is a faith that cannot and will not save you.

It saddens me that so many people here uphold the Roman Catholic Church above Christ, the Head, seated at the right hand of the Father.
People here will defend fallible men and their fallible doctrines before they ever defend Christ and His words.

John 8:24
I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Mark 1:15
The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.

To Be in Heaven, You Must Believe in Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ alone.

John 10:27-30
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
30 I and the Father are one.”

John 10:7
“Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.

The Door is not the Roman Catholic Church or the Body.
It doesn’t matter how hard you try and spin these words around to fit your agenda.
The Door is NOT the Roman Catholic Church.

The Door is Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ is the only Door that grants man Salvation.

Acts 4:12
And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life.No one comes to the Father except through me.

The Roman Catholic Church cannot and will not save you or anyone else for that matter.
Put your trust in Christ and Christ alone.

Romans 11:36
For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Your Church may or may not have compiled the Bible, but I never see anywhere that it says Church membership is essential for Salvation

Is the Church the Body of Christ?

Are you baptized into Christ?

Are you thus baptized into the Church?

Would it be okay to skip baptism and thus Church membership?

 

[Randy_Carson]

It is not true that water is required for Baptism. There are three types of Baptism, Baptism of water, Baptism of Blood and Baptism of Desire. Water is required ONLY for Baptism of water. It is not required for Baptism of Blood, or Baptism of Desire.

And water baptism is normatively necessary.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Not true. A heathen may obtain baptism of desire without actually intending to be baptized by water. A heathen, believing, even though in a confused way, in a God whose will should be done and desiring to do that will whatever it may be, has Baptism of desire.

A heathen either explicitly or implicitly desires water baptism since “baptism…saves you.”

 

[Randy_Carson]

I dont remember asking the Catholic Church for understanding of the Scriptures, I only ask the Holy Spirit the 3rd person of the Trinity, the author of the Scriptures to give me understanding.

Are you infallible then?

Have you been led into ALL truth by the Spirit?

Or were those promises actually made to the leaders of the early Church who formed what might be termed the proto-magisterium of what quickly became known as the Catholic Church beginning in Antioch?

 

[Randy_Carson]

Again this goes back to yours vs my definition of what the “Church” really is.

And whose definition is correct?

Is the Church visible with a leader established by Jesus (cf Matthew 16:18-19)

Or is it an invisible church made of all “believers” regardless of denomination or doctrine? If so, are conflicting and contradictory doctrines acceptable in the one body of Christ?

 

[PRmerger]

Her book?um no, Its gods book written directly to man. God is the author of this perfect book, not a demoniation. Again this goes back to yours vs my definition of what the “Church” really is.

Yes, the Holy Bible is our baby.

And I find it curious that you make some sort of dichotomy between God’s Book and the Catholic Church’s book.

You seem to be telling parents, who say, “She is my baby” “Your baby? Um, no. She’s God’s baby.”

The Catholic answer is yes, both/and. We are co-creators with God. There is no need to make it an either/or proposition.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Her book?um no, Its gods book written directly to man. God is the author of this perfect book, not a demoniation. Again this goes back to yours vs my definition of what the “Church” really is.

Did the Bible fall from the sky? No? :nope:

Then who wrote it?

The Holy Spirit inspired those holy men of the Early Church who were true authors (and not mere secretaries). Originally known as members of “the Way”, they were first called “Christians” in Antioch - the same place where they began to refer to the Church as the Catholic Church before the end of the first century and the death of the last Apostle, John.

Thus, the Bible was written by Catholics under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. :yup:

“These are the facts of case, and it is undisputed.” :yyeess:

 

[steve_b]

No. She did not. It was the Greek Orthodox church which gave us the Codex Sinaiticus . Handwritten well over 1600 years ago, the manuscript contains the Christian Bible in Greek, including the oldest complete copy of the New Testament.

I’ve asked this lots of times on these forums over the years, and have not gotten an answer. I hope you can help me.

Q: When was the 1st time, we see in writing, the name “Orthodox Church” ? And now in extension to that, “Greek Orthodox Church”. Please give the reference

As I say, no one yet has answered my question. I hope you have the answer because I sincerely want to know.

Thanks in advance.

 

[steve_b]

Is it true that the Roman Catholic Church has changed its infallible teaching here? In the present times, the Vatican has indicated that a Jew may be saved even though he does not convert to Roman Catholicism. Didn’t Cardinal Kasper say that the Old Law was salvific for Jews of today?

Do you have a reference?
T:

And modern Popes have expressed their esteem for Islam and even kissed their holy book, the Koran? Why would a Pope kiss a book which would lead someone to hell, or does this indicate that the book was something holy and to be respected and admired and kissed?

That one lit up the blogs.

Fr Joe says, it’s a simple answer
http://fatherjoe.wordpress.com/instructions/debates/anti-catholicism/pope-john-paul-ii-kisses-the-koran/

Jimmy Akin has the following analysis
http://www.jimmyakin.org/2006/04/jp2_and_the_qur.html

 

[chimo]

Perhaps he ought not have done that.

Perhaps we all need to do this if we want the respect from one another.