To become Orthodox or Catholic?

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Ok, so here it goes…

…I was introduced to the Eastern Orthodox Church approximately a year or so ago. Through this I began reading as much about the early church as I could. Based on my research and reading, I am now a quickly lapsing protestant. I started attending Orthodox Divine Liturgy regularly about six months ago, and have also started catechism (although I am not officially a catachumen).

About a month ago I started reading a lot of Catholic apologetics, and through that stumbled upon this forum. Two weeks ago I attended the second Catholic mass I had ever been to in my life, and something drew me back the following week (I’m probably the only person I know who ever goes to Catholic Mass and EO Divine Liturgy on the same Sunday!)

Now my dilemma, I don’t know what to think anymore! It seems to me that while the EO and RC both have a lot in common, there are some key distinctives. Both RC’s and EO’s I talk to claim that they believe that each other’s sacraments are valid, yet they would never partake of each other’s Eucharist! What am I to make of this? If both churches sacraments are valid, then what is the difference?

So now I’m in a real dilemma. I’m know I will eventually end up in one church or the other, but I’m petrified of making the wrong choice! Any advice?
 
pollsfriend said:
Ok, so here it goes…

…I was introduced to the Eastern Orthodox Church approximately a year or so ago. Through this I began reading as much about the early church as I could. Based on my research and reading, I am now a quickly lapsing protestant. I started attending Orthodox Divine Liturgy regularly about six months ago, and have also started catechism (although I am not officially a catachumen).

About a month ago I started reading a lot of Catholic apologetics, and through that stumbled upon this forum. Two weeks ago I attended the second Catholic mass I had ever been to in my life, and something drew me back the following week (I’m probably the only person I know who ever goes to Catholic Mass and EO Divine Liturgy on the same Sunday!)

Now my dilemma, I don’t know what to think anymore! It seems to me that while the EO and RC both have a lot in common, there are some key distinctives. Both RC’s and EO’s I talk to claim that they believe that each other’s sacraments are valid, yet they would never partake of each other’s Eucharist! What am I to make of this? If both churches sacraments are valid, then what is the difference?

So now I’m in a real dilemma. I’m know I will eventually end up in one church or the other, but I’m petrified of making the wrong choice! Any advice?
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Validity of some other church’s sacraments is something that Protestants and Latins worry about, not the Orthodox. The Latins have stated that they believe Orthodox sacraments are valid, and has stated so at the highest level mulitiple times.

The Orthodox won’t speak of sacraments outside the Church, as it is not our concern, for much of the reason you stated: even if they were valid, we don’t partake of them.

The difference is that Latin church makes everything depend on the pope of Rome. Just because we don’t believe that one man has the Church’s infallibility and is above the Church, they call our Holy Mysteries illicit. Just if we stuck a mention of the pope in the DL, and all would be well. Well, our DL, ecclesiology, etc… are fine, just thank you, and has been the last 2 thousand years. No Eastern bishop received his pallium from Rome until the uniates took it from him. We don’t need it.

There’s more to it from our perspective: fidelity to the Fathers of the Councils (the filioque, inserted by a local council and then promoted by one pope, after several had denied the insertion, doesn’t display the same fidelity), the need of them to dogmatize on the Theotokos (IC, making the Assumption a dogma on pain of anathema, and now it seems co-redemptrix) etc. but you get the idea.
 
pollsfriend said:
Ok, so here it goes…

…I was introduced to the Eastern Orthodox Church approximately a year or so ago. Through this I began reading as much about the early church as I could. Based on my research and reading, I am now a quickly lapsing protestant. I started attending Orthodox Divine Liturgy regularly about six months ago, and have also started catechism (although I am not officially a catachumen).

About a month ago I started reading a lot of Catholic apologetics, and through that stumbled upon this forum. Two weeks ago I attended the second Catholic mass I had ever been to in my life, and something drew me back the following week (I’m probably the only person I know who ever goes to Catholic Mass and EO Divine Liturgy on the same Sunday!)

Now my dilemma, I don’t know what to think anymore! It seems to me that while the EO and RC both have a lot in common, there are some key distinctives. Both RC’s and EO’s I talk to claim that they believe that each other’s sacraments are valid, yet they would never partake of each other’s Eucharist! What am I to make of this? If both churches sacraments are valid, then what is the difference?

So now I’m in a real dilemma. I’m know I will eventually end up in one church or the other, but I’m petrified of making the wrong choice! Any advice?
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In order to make this decision, you have to look at the issues that separate the Orthodox and Catholic churches. The pope for one: Is he the Vicar of Christ, or just the Bishop of highest honor? Is he infallible or is it the Church as a whole? Does he have universal jurisdiction, or just local jurisdiction? Other issues may be the filioque, Purgatory (based on interpretation), the Immaculate Conception, Original Sin (based on interpretation), indulgences and the treasury of merits.

As for discernment, prayer is of paramount importance. Pray for help in discerning which church is the one true Church of Christ. What church teaches that which has been proclaimed for almost two thousand years. This journey may take time. I have been on a similar journey for over three years now. You must seek patience as this is not an ordinary discission. May you find your way home…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius:cool:
 
I see it like a struggle between the Apostle Peter been the Roman Church and Andrew been the Orthodox Churches. Both blessed by Christ both with legal rights to teach. Been Roman I give my loyalty to Rome due to Matt 16:18-19.
 
Isa_Almisry said:
Validity of some other church’s sacraments is something that Protestants and Latins worry about, not the Orthodox. The Latins have stated that they believe Orthodox sacraments are valid, and has stated so at the highest level mulitiple times.

The Orthodox won’t speak of sacraments outside the Church, as it is not our concern, for much of the reason you stated: even if they were valid, we don’t partake of them.

The difference is that Latin church makes everything depend on the pope of Rome. Just because we don’t believe that one man has the Church’s infallibility and is above the Church, they call our Holy Mysteries illicit. Just if we stuck a mention of the pope in the DL, and all would be well. Well, our DL, ecclesiology, etc… are fine, just thank you, and has been the last 2 thousand years. No Eastern bishop received his pallium from Rome until the uniates took it from him. We don’t need it.

There’s more to it from our perspective: fidelity to the Fathers of the Councils (the filioque, inserted by a local council and then promoted by one pope, after several had denied the insertion, doesn’t display the same fidelity), the need of them to dogmatize on the Theotokos (IC, making the Assumption a dogma on pain of anathema, and now it seems co-redemptrix) etc. but you get the idea.
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As you can see by this post so much of the Orthodox perspective is based on how they are NOT Catholic. You’ll be hard pressed to find Orthodox writings nowadays that don’t bring up the Catholic Church and how wrong it is.
The Catholic Church doesn’t haven’t this identity crisis. The Catholic Church has said that Orthodox sacraments are valid because they’ve left the door open for unity. Jesus prayed for unity.
The Catholic Church is not concerned with distinguishing itself from the Orthodox Church like the Orthodox are from the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is concerned with bringing Christ to the world.
The Pope is one of the most identifable figures in the world. The Catholic Church is the light on the hill. While the Orthodox hide their light under a bushel.
 
Chellow said:
I see it like a struggle between the Apostle Peter been the Roman Church and Andrew been the Orthodox Churches. Both blessed by Christ both with legal rights to teach. Been Roman I give my loyalty to Rome due to Matt 16:18-19.
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It is not and never has been between Peter and Andrew. So I don’t recommend that type of analogy.

Michael
 
The tipping point for me was when I reflected on that last phrase of the Creed: “one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church”. Among other things, I considered which of the two has better fulfilled Christ’s mandate to carry His Gospel to all nations and cultures. Which of the two speaks with one voice, and so on.

I share your appreciation of the Eastern liturgy, iconography, etc. Part of Catholicism’s being truly “catholic” is that it embraces both East and West. The new Catechism freequently quotes with appreciation the Eastern Fathers, hymns, and so on.

You probably have heard of Eastern-rite Catholics who maintain all of these venerable traditions, and yet are in communion with Rome. In becoming Catholic, you really can have it all!
 
pollsfriend said:
Ok, so here it goes…

…I was introduced to the Eastern Orthodox Church approximately a year or so ago. Through this I began reading as much about the early church as I could. Based on my research and reading, I am now a quickly lapsing protestant. I started attending Orthodox Divine Liturgy regularly about six months ago, and have also started catechism (although I am not officially a catachumen).

About a month ago I started reading a lot of Catholic apologetics, and through that stumbled upon this forum. Two weeks ago I attended the second Catholic mass I had ever been to in my life, and something drew me back the following week (I’m probably the only person I know who ever goes to Catholic Mass and EO Divine Liturgy on the same Sunday!)

Now my dilemma, I don’t know what to think anymore! It seems to me that while the EO and RC both have a lot in common, there are some key distinctives. Both RC’s and EO’s I talk to claim that they believe that each other’s sacraments are valid, yet they would never partake of each other’s Eucharist! What am I to make of this? If both churches sacraments are valid, then what is the difference?

So now I’m in a real dilemma. I’m know I will eventually end up in one church or the other, but I’m petrified of making the wrong choice! Any advice?
Click to expand...
If you are a Western Christian, become Catholic unless you are 100% convinced that Catholicism’s dogmas are wrong (where they differ from Orthodoxy, chiefly with regards to papal authority).

God will not send you to hell for making the wrong decision in good faith. Follow truth where you see it. If you see it in both churches, as I do, then either stay Protestant of some sort (as I do) or follow the advice I gave in the previous paragraph!

Edwin
 
Alexius said:
In order to make this decision, you have to look at the issues that separate the Orthodox and Catholic churches. The pope for one: Is he the Vicar of Christ, or just the Bishop of highest honor? Is he infallible or is it the Church as a whole? Does he have universal jurisdiction, or just local jurisdiction? Other issues may be the filioque, Purgatory (based on interpretation), the Immaculate Conception, Original Sin (based on interpretation), indulgences and the treasury of merits.
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Most of the issues that you bring up here are the issues I have had with the Roman Catholic Church (although purgatory reminds me of the Orthodox idea of the tollhouses) . My other stumbling block is that I was raised Mennonite, and basically was taught from little on up that the Roman Catholic Church is the “Whore of Babylon” etc. partially due to a book called “The Martyr’s Mirror,” which paints the Roman Catholic Church as being extremely cruel and oppressive to Mennonites and anabaptists in general. While my views on this have changed somewhat dramatically, it is still hard to overcome those prejudices.

My family knows I attend an Orthodox church, but as of now this means little to them, whereas if I said Roman Catholic, I can’t imagine what the reaction would be!! This is my other dillemma. I haven’t come fully clean with my family about this out of fear of their reaction. I’m in college and still partially dependent on my parents, and if the carpet were fully pulled out from under me I’m not quite sure how I could handle it at this point. I am considering taking them with me to the Nativity Divine Liturgy, but I’m honestly afraid they’ll walk out!

The other thing that really bothers me is the division between the RC and EO church. Although I hear that both of their sacraments are valid, they can’t both possibly be the one true church they claim to be, can they? If so, then isn’t kind of like the Protestant idea of the universal church?
 
Mickey said:
Interesting comment. Part of the reason I was frustrated as an Eastern Catholic, was because of their identity crisis. 🤷
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I’m sorry you felt you had to choose one or the other over having the best of both worlds. 😦
 
pollsfriend said:
Most of the issues that you bring up here are the issues I have had with the Roman Catholic Church (although purgatory reminds me of the Orthodox idea of the tollhouses) . My other stumbling block is that I was raised Mennonite, and basically was taught from little on up that the Roman Catholic Church is the “Whore of Babylon” etc. partially due to a book called “The Martyr’s Mirror,” which paints the Roman Catholic Church as being extremely cruel and oppressive to Mennonites and anabaptists in general. While my views on this have changed somewhat dramatically, it is still hard to overcome those prejudices.

My family knows I attend an Orthodox church, but as of now this means little to them, whereas if I said Roman Catholic, I can’t imagine what the reaction would be!! This is my other dillemma. I haven’t come fully clean with my family about this out of fear of their reaction. I’m in college and still partially dependent on my parents, and if the carpet were fully pulled out from under me I’m not quite sure how I could handle it at this point. I am considering taking them with me to the Nativity Divine Liturgy, but I’m honestly afraid they’ll walk out!

The other thing that really bothers me is the division between the RC and EO church. Although I hear that both of their sacraments are valid, they can’t both possibly be the one true church they claim to be, can they? If so, then isn’t kind of like the Protestant idea of the universal church?
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Well I will remember you in my prayers. Your in a tough bind. Being Catholic I know that it’s the true church. Sadly I have lost friends over this. Annoying when it happens but I cannot make a decision agianst God.
As for your second issue my repsonse is this. Any person who is baptised either by water, blood, or desire is a member of the body of Christ. They might not go to the Catholic Church but, they are members of the body. Yet the Catholic Church claims to be true church based on Christ’s commandments to St. Peter go and feed his sheep and upon this rock… etc. The Orthodox are considered a sister church becuase they also have apostolictic succession from St. Andrew. That is how thier sacrements are valid.
Yet, there is the split, so while if I could not find a catholic chruch around, I could go to a Orthodox church. I could not recieve communion, not becasue it would be invalid, but because the Orthodox would not allow it. That is fine to me as it is thier church.
If Protestants had Apostolitic succesion then the Orthodox/Catholic split would be an equal comparission to the Protestant/Catholic split, but they simply do not have that.
 
(I’m probably the only person I know who ever goes to Catholic Mass and EO Divine Liturgy on the same Sunday!)
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Whoa!👍
Given your personal family back ground situation I would try Orthodoxy first. You will get a valid apostolic sacraments there while you solve the Catholic questions. Converting from Orthodoxy to Catholicism is easy because you already have the sacraments.
I have read young persons that convert to militantly anticatholic protestant denominations into the CC and lost family and friends, that is something you should ponder. And read a lot, and pray a lot, e- forums are not enough.
 
Hesychios said:
It is not and never has been between Peter and Andrew. So I don’t recommend that type of analogy.

Michael
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It was only to point out the Apostolic succession that both our Churches have and find vary important unlike Protestants. Peter been the successor of Roman and Andrew of Constantinople.

Apostolic succession is significant because of Jesus Christ’s promise that the “gates of hell” would not prevail against the Church, and his promise that he himself would be with the apostles to “the end of the age”.
 
inthecloud said:
Whoa!👍 And read a lot, and pray a lot, e- forums are not enough.
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O, I realize that the forums aren’t enough. But it helps to get a Catholic perspective. The Orthodox parish that I attend is made up entirely of converts, so of course they believe very wholeheartedly that Orthodoxy is the way to go. I also attend a mainline protestant (Nazarene) university, and I get little help here. I’ve talked to some Religion profs (I’m in a Bible history class right now) and their inconsistency with regards to church history absolutely drives me up the wall!

Most of my friends think I’m crazy and don’t understand why I care…“we’re all Christian, right?” is what I get a lot. A few are polite enough to commend me for “trying to figure out what I believe.” The few Catholics I do know aren’t really very devoted, and they don’t really understand either! I’ll try to talk about it with them and it becomes evident that they don’t really care, and don’t really realize how fortunate they are to have been born Catholic! So that’s why I joined this forum. Thanks to all who have replied so far…
 
I have always love BOTH arms, wings, lungs of the Church. I am Orthodox, so I take Communion at my church…but I often go to a Saturday evening service at my local Catholic church…and sometimes even visit a Calvary Chapel in my area once a moth…as they have an amaizing campus…You must go where God sends you. I dwelled among the Presbyterians for 16 years, learned my Bible backwards and forwards…and that actually lead me “home.” My family comes out of the “Orthodox” on my father’s side, but my Greek-Albanian grandmother actually came from the same area as Mother Theresa…so go figure. Those on my mothers’ family are German-Lutheran and Catholic. We often go to each others churches…just receive “communion” at our “home” churches. Then again, I have always adored any place that elcomes My Lord…even a simple Quaker Meeting house with no sermon, no communuion, only the silence of listening for God’s voice. I pray in my lifetime…there may be some way by the Grace of God only…and the love of the Holy Spirit…the two will become one…and the great crazy family will be crazier than ever…😃

St Andrew was/is the brother of St Peter…if Peter and Andrew could love each other…why oh why can their sheep not do the same? This all must make the Lord want to box our ears…😃

“In Christ there is no East or West, no North or South…neither Greek, nor Jew…”

I am not so good at getting the quoats right…but I think the above came from somewhere in The Scriptures…(I think it is a hymn too)
🙂
 
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