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Blessedwithfive
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Thanks.
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Blessedwithfive
Guest
I get that. I do think sometimes the kids are trying to bait me into saying something I don’t want to. It is just, sometimes, I fear they are leading the flock away. Maybe we should have a class for the kids who really don’t want to be there?
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Blessedwithfive
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Joe_5859
Guest
I’ll just throw this out there, but I’ve recently come across two good, video-based Confirmation prep programs: Chosen and Decision Point. The latter one is actually free and can be viewed online.
I just mention it because I know it helps me to watch how others present the faith to get ideas on how to do it myself. So even if you wouldn’t use videos in your classes, maybe it will generate some ideas on how to break through the walls you are encountering with these kids.
I just mention it because I know it helps me to watch how others present the faith to get ideas on how to do it myself. So even if you wouldn’t use videos in your classes, maybe it will generate some ideas on how to break through the walls you are encountering with these kids.
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AnneElizabeth
Guest
This is such a great suggestion… and If you don’t mind me chiming in on another…
Make sure that the small group of kids get along and like being together… that is, no kid being the unpopular one, no kid being the odd one out so that they feel uncomfortable there- amoung friends. My CCD class was hostile and broken up between the local schools. I can remember I had a friend who was odd and was picked on the entire class at CCD… no Christ in that classroom at all. No surprise, he left the church.
Maybe also group the kids into small groups by whose accepting the faith and who isn’t… then find the appropriate person to attend to catechizing each group of kids. I mean,we all know that not all kids respond to the same thing in the same way. If the group that is not accepting the faith is taught by a person who has been given the gift to teach that kind of specific problem group, then we might really succeed in getting through to them. Not all teachers are the same either. Match the right teachers with the right group.
That’s just my suggestion. Hope I’m not intruding.
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PJM
Guest
I’d
- Leave it up to the Pastor who should make that call
- If the families are Informed and Practicing Catholics: Confirm them
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AnneElizabeth
Guest
I can remember in my CCD class the boys in that class were the popular ones, and they were very loud and always cracking jokes. Sadly, I remember they cracked jokes a lot and often about what we were learning, putting down holy saints and even Jesus. I remember at the time I laughed, because, well it was funny at the time, and also I wanted to be liked by the ‘cool’ guys… but all the while on the inside I was feeling very sick about it, wanting to learn about Jesus seriously. I did not understand the twist of flesh and soul going on at that time and did not know what to think or do about it.
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They did this to the teacher as well.. she was female, and I think now they would have benefited from having a male teacher because, its not that I feel a female teacher can't do the job, its that men have a tendency to only listen to and respect other men when they get to a certain age. These boys were at that age. I think they needed a man to lead them, discipline them.
I have to say in all honesty, if I had a CCD class that DIDN'T have all that going on, I might have latched onto the faith instead of taking a pass on it until later in my life. I just didn't understand and I think if we had teachers that got into teaching the faith deeply( and not at a surface informaton only level), we can have kids more solid in the faith by the time confirmation comes. Yet, I don't know how that is done. :shrug: I wish I could help more.
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pianistclare
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The whole thing needs a make-over.
Was there a meeting with the parents at the start to explain to them that receiving a Sacrament is not a punch card for membership in the Church?
If the parents have a “let’s get this done attitude” I recommend they find a different parish that would be better suited to their needs, since we’re all about FAITH FORMATION.
Seriously. We do that.
Sometimes you just have to FOCUS on the students that are really interested in living their faith. Even with the random few who don’t or are not totally on board, when they see and experience the dedication of the CORE team, the hours of prep we put into it, the activities that we have planned that have a point to them, the handouts that are interesting and informative, the fact that we make them do a presentation to the class on their Saint…a REAL presentation, not cut and paste form the internet, and most importantly WHY they chose that saint and how they intend to apply those saintly qualities into their future lives…THEY GET IT.
We had a student come in just for our Confirmation Mass because he was in the hospital when the Mass at his parish took place. He was formed and ready. His parents were astounded by the difference in the program. They were amazed we all knew his name. They were amazed he got a gift form our parish even though he wasn’t ours. They were amazed we planned a great reception. They were amazed we took pictures. They were amazed at the prep that the music ministry put into the celebration. They were amazed that the entire congregation practically turned out. They were amazed that the kids could converse well with the Bishop when he spoke individually to them.
This is something the entire parish needs to be on board with, fund, and support. It’s important to the parish. It shouldn’t be check-off list for them either.
A re-boot is in order. It should lie not just on the OP’s shoulders. I suspect that is why the DRE quit. You’ve got to have a commitment from EVERYONE. It’s not just about dumping the kids off on time.
If they’re not ready, there are places where they can get confirmed and it’s just another day. Leave them to it. But focus on doing things the right way, with love, PLENTY of instruction and kindness. We’ve never had kids that don’t get along. We demand that they respect one another. We respect them, and they know it. Break the rules? You’re out. Tough life lesson, but a necessary one. Christ never expected his disciples to be doormats. Dust off your sandals…
I wish we were close to help you!
PEACE!
Clare
Was there a meeting with the parents at the start to explain to them that receiving a Sacrament is not a punch card for membership in the Church?
If the parents have a “let’s get this done attitude” I recommend they find a different parish that would be better suited to their needs, since we’re all about FAITH FORMATION.
Seriously. We do that.
Sometimes you just have to FOCUS on the students that are really interested in living their faith. Even with the random few who don’t or are not totally on board, when they see and experience the dedication of the CORE team, the hours of prep we put into it, the activities that we have planned that have a point to them, the handouts that are interesting and informative, the fact that we make them do a presentation to the class on their Saint…a REAL presentation, not cut and paste form the internet, and most importantly WHY they chose that saint and how they intend to apply those saintly qualities into their future lives…THEY GET IT.
We had a student come in just for our Confirmation Mass because he was in the hospital when the Mass at his parish took place. He was formed and ready. His parents were astounded by the difference in the program. They were amazed we all knew his name. They were amazed he got a gift form our parish even though he wasn’t ours. They were amazed we planned a great reception. They were amazed we took pictures. They were amazed at the prep that the music ministry put into the celebration. They were amazed that the entire congregation practically turned out. They were amazed that the kids could converse well with the Bishop when he spoke individually to them.
This is something the entire parish needs to be on board with, fund, and support. It’s important to the parish. It shouldn’t be check-off list for them either.
A re-boot is in order. It should lie not just on the OP’s shoulders. I suspect that is why the DRE quit. You’ve got to have a commitment from EVERYONE. It’s not just about dumping the kids off on time.
If they’re not ready, there are places where they can get confirmed and it’s just another day. Leave them to it. But focus on doing things the right way, with love, PLENTY of instruction and kindness. We’ve never had kids that don’t get along. We demand that they respect one another. We respect them, and they know it. Break the rules? You’re out. Tough life lesson, but a necessary one. Christ never expected his disciples to be doormats. Dust off your sandals…
I wish we were close to help you!
PEACE!
Clare
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Blessedwithfive
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I fought very hard for a video based program, and lost. I’m not a fan of Lifeteen for a confirmation program. It would be a nice youth group or maybe after confirmation program. It is just “lite” on the religious aspects, in my opinion. I will watch the videos for ideas. Thanks, I really appreciate the help.
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Blessedwithfive
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the kids seem to get along together. They are from the same public school just over the boarder from the town of the church. Plus a few Catholic High kids who are required to attend. We are assigned the class. I did teach this group back when they were in second grade.
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Blessedwithfive
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I love the idea of getting a guy to teach…now where can I find one
I think if I leave, they will just split the kids among the other 13 classes.
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pianistclare
Guest
I find that LifeTeen supplies more than enough material for each LifeNight. Often, we have to leave something out because we can’t get through all the content in 2 hours. 
We built and wrote our own Confirmation program.
Covenants
Sacrament review
Formation of Character
Aspect of Service
Maturity in Faith
Magisterium and Sacred Tradition
Walking the Road of Life with Christ
Also a 3 day retreat.
We have classes for confirmation students once a month, all day on a Saturday. Snack and lunches provided by parents. Adoration and Reconciliation offered at the Retreat.
LifeNights are totally separate, but you must be enrolled and have 85% attendance at LifeNights to get confirmed. Miss a bunch? You can be confirmed next year when it’s a priority for you.
We built and wrote our own Confirmation program.
Covenants
Sacrament review
Formation of Character
Aspect of Service
Maturity in Faith
Magisterium and Sacred Tradition
Walking the Road of Life with Christ
Also a 3 day retreat.
We have classes for confirmation students once a month, all day on a Saturday. Snack and lunches provided by parents. Adoration and Reconciliation offered at the Retreat.
LifeNights are totally separate, but you must be enrolled and have 85% attendance at LifeNights to get confirmed. Miss a bunch? You can be confirmed next year when it’s a priority for you.
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Blessedwithfive
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I just want to thank you for letting me pick your mind. You have answered some of my other posts too and you have always been kind to me. Thanks
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Blessedwithfive
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Lifeteen has loads of activities but we cant do them due to the shear size of the group. No attendance policy. I’m lucky to get the kids to come to half of the classes and we only have about 10 two hour classes. Same for the other teachers. One “retreat” for three hours on a Sunday where a speaker comes in. No Reconciliation offered. Father said there were too many kids. Adoration is offered for one hour once a year.I find that LifeTeen supplies more than enough material for each LifeNight. Often, we have to leave something out because we can’t get through all the content in 2 hours.
We built and wrote our own Confirmation program.
Covenants
Sacrament review
Formation of Character
Aspect of Service
Maturity in Faith
Magisterium and Sacred Tradition
Walking the Road of Life with Christ
Also a 3 day retreat.
We have classes for confirmation students once a month, all day on a Saturday. Snack and lunches provided by parents. Adoration and Reconciliation offered at the Retreat.
LifeNights are totally separate, but you must be enrolled and have 85% attendance at LifeNights to get confirmed. Miss a bunch? You can be confirmed next year when it’s a priority for you.
A few questions for you: Is this a one year class? When do you confirm?
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pianistclare
Guest
Parent who don’t come get emails. No response? No confirmation.I just want to thank you for letting me pick your mind. You have answered some of my other posts too and you have always been kind to me. Thanks
We have a small parish. 40 kids being Confirmed this year.
2 being turned away for lack of participation/interest, ignoring the requirements, etc.
Plenty of people are inactive in the Church. Those parents who are lukewarm aren’t coming to Mass, nor are they bringing their kids to Mass alone.
They’re NOT practicing Catholics. The responsibility is theirs. We are there to support them, help them, teach the, But they have to show and ask for it. And they have to assure Father that they will do better in the future. He isn’t shy about saying “I haven’t ever seen you at church. Why?”
The way to get people to take an interest and return to the faith is to demonstrate that it’s important, not that we will excuse their poor practices.
They have to have proof of the previous Sacraments (certs) they have to have attended a full year of LifeTeen with no more than 5 absences, and they have to be at least 15 years old. Sometimes, people don’t get the rules down the first time, so we have many seniors in the game. We seldom make exceptions, and they have to be extreme circumstances, not “my kid’s an Eagle scout and we think that takes priority”.
You have to ask yourself. Do you want to form good Catholics or do you want to encourage people in the idea that as long as they show up, they are doing right by God?
It’s difficult. Yes, there are graces to be had, but really, if there is not a conversion of heart…you’re beating yourself up and perpetuating the notions that the bare minimum is all we need do for Worship, Service, Education.
When those parents see the passion in your eyes for the faith, maybe they’ll get it. But if they don’t care enough to show up? Sorry, If it were an elite sports team or a dance competition? They’d be there with bells on. God bless you.
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pianistclare
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OH gosh!
We have 36 2 hour sessions per school year.
Father doesn’t have priest friends that will come out an hear confessions? Our Deanery priests support each other for this. They come out for each other, happy to do it.
No attendance policy? Then how does the Pastor assure the Bishop and attest that his children are well formed an ready? Our Archbishop requires this, AND he himself interviews the children before the Mass.
We have a CORE of about 8 people, 5 regulars. Others pop in when they can. We meet every weds night to assign parts, teachings, and how we’re going to do set-up, and environment. What do we need for the ice breaker game? Who’s going to load the music? Where will they sign in?
We have 4 small groups for more intimate discussion. 20 kids in each. St. Francis, St. Lucy, St. Juda Tadeo, and St. Nicholas. Their choosing. They get points for showing up. They lose points for not showing up, They get points for community service, at church and elsewhere, for serving at Mass in some capacity, sometimes for just being the only one to volunteer or know the answer. At the end of each semester the high point group get a reward: bowling and pizza, wall climbing, paintball, something they choose. The CORE member picks up the tab and the church reimburses. They have official LifeTeen tees that we design with the yearly theme logo. They wear them to functions so that the parishioners SEE them and understand they are doing work for the parish and participating., That’s how the parishioners end up sponsoring them (scholarships) for Catholic Heart WorkCamp each summer.
We have Adoration at a LifeNight quarterly.
LifeTeen is our High School Catechesis. It’s not just a youth group.
Confirmation is a whole other curriculum, designed by our CORE team, and implemented on Saturdays in the spring. But as I said, their attendance in LifeTeen is the factor we use to see if they are eligible for Confirmation instruction.
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pianistclare
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We also had a Parent LifeNight this past Sunday. We made them do everything we have the kids do. They had to sign in, mix and mingle, introduce themselves to each other, and we did 3 short games. Then we went on to teaching: We covered Sacrifice in the Old Testament, asked them to recall what they could from Bible stories (boy was that hilarious) and compared those with Sacrifice in the New Testament. Passover Meal vs. Lord’s Supper. My portion was to speak about Chronos time versus Kairos time.
Then a brain break (those are fun) and where in the Catechism they could learn about sacrifice. Discussion of how they sacrifice for their kids and families, then Adoration to pray fro their children. At the end almost 100% of the parents said they would come in once a month to help set-up, cut up watermelon, make punch, file papers, make copies, whatever we needed.
Most said they learned a lot, and wished they could sit in. They can. Parents always welcome, They cannot however, sit in on their child’s small group. No spying. LOL
God bless you!
Then a brain break (those are fun) and where in the Catechism they could learn about sacrifice. Discussion of how they sacrifice for their kids and families, then Adoration to pray fro their children. At the end almost 100% of the parents said they would come in once a month to help set-up, cut up watermelon, make punch, file papers, make copies, whatever we needed.
Most said they learned a lot, and wished they could sit in. They can. Parents always welcome, They cannot however, sit in on their child’s small group. No spying. LOL
God bless you!
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theoda
Guest
What you taught about skipping mass is 100% correct.
It IS a MORTAL sin to skip Mass. ewtn.com/expert/answers/sunday_mass.htm Your pastor isn’t infallible, church doctrine is however. The kids need to know the seriousness of missing mass. If you exclude any mention of sin, how are they supposed to know what is right or wrong? You shouldn’t worry about the children being offended, but you should worry about the children offending God!You shouldn’t follow what your pastor tells, but what the the Church tells you. If the pastor disagrees with the Church, then he is claiming he knows better than God himself, since the Holy Spirit guides the Church as promised by Christ. Don’t worry about getting in trouble, Jesus said blessed are the persecuted, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.Here’s the thing about Confirmation. You are supposed to be in a state of grace to properly be confirmed. If you are not in a state of grace but you get confirmed anyway, it is a valid Confirmation however you don’t receive the fruits of the Holy Spirit until you repent for your sins. So the fruits of the Holy Spirit can only do its thing if they are in a state of grace. I will quote catechism," To receive Confirmation one must be in a state of grace. One should receive the sacrament of Penance in order to be cleansed for the gift of the Holy Spirit. More intense prayer should prepare one to receive the strength and graces of the Holy Spirit with docility and readiness to act.128". So I would say no, they shouldn’t receive Confirmation yet.
For more information about confirmation check here:vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a2.htm
More articles about skipping mass and mortal sin:
catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0111.html
sites.google.com/a/stpaulcatholic.net/parish/sacraments/eucharist-liturgy-of-he-eucharist/questions-about-the-liturgy-of-the-eucharist-holy-mass/is-it-a-mortal-sin-to-miss-mass-on-sunday
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Blessedwithfive
Guest
Ok I admit I didn’t go to all the links but I’m pretty sure I understand a mortal sin. For a sin to be mortal we have three things:What you taught about skipping mass is 100% correct.
Here’s the thing about Confirmation. You are supposed to be in a state of grace to properly be confirmed. If you are not in a state of grace but you get confirmed anyway, it is a valid Confirmation however you don’t receive the fruits of the Holy Spirit until you repent for your sins. So the fruits of the Holy Spirit can only do its thing if they are in a state of grace. I will quote catechism," To receive Confirmation one must be in a state of grace. One should receive the sacrament of Penance in order to be cleansed for the gift of the Holy Spirit. More intense prayer should prepare one to receive the strength and graces of the Holy Spirit with docility and readiness to act.128". So I would say no, they shouldn’t receive Confirmation yet.
For more information about confirmation check here:vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a2.htm
More articles about skipping mass and mortal sin:
catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0111.html
sites.google.com/a/stpaulcatholic.net/parish/sacraments/eucharist-liturgy-of-he-eucharist/questions-about-the-liturgy-of-the-eucharist-holy-mass/is-it-a-mortal-sin-to-miss-mass-on-sunday
The sin must be “grave” in nature
The sinner must have full knowledge of the sinful nature of the act
The sinner must freely consent to the act
Father explained to me that while it is grave in nature, through poor teaching the kids don’t have the second requirement. Full Knowledge. I told Father that I did agree, and I told the kids that if they truly didn’t know that they had to attend Mass, then they got a “pass” on the sin as you can’t sin by accident. But…now I have told you so now you know. That didn’t go over so good as most of the parents were not going to Mass weekly either. I was told by Father to not teach that, as that would be “off putting” to some people and I don’t want to be the cause of someone leaving the faith. Parents complained. I backed down. Two kids left the program. I feel much guilt and truly wish I would have used another example of a mortal sin in class. Actually I wish I never said anything.
I believe missing Mass is a mortal sin. I understand the rational. I am bound by the Church rules. The kids and most likely their parents do not understand the rational behind missing Mass and they are therefore not bound to the rule.
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theoda
Guest
Ok. I understand your point. However, aren’t we supposed to spread and teach the Catholic faith to the world? Wasn’t this the instructions of Jesus to the Apostles? Everyone should got to mass to give glory to God. If some people don’t know that they are supposed to go to Mass, aren’t we supposed to inform that they are since God deserves their worshipping? I would like to quote John 15:22,If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. In this verse, Jesus is saying yes, if wouldn’t have tried to convert some people, then they wouldn’t have sinned. But now since they rejected him they are sinning. Jesus didn’t not tell them because he was afraid of them sinning, no, he told them to try to convert them. It is unfair to not inform an ignorant person of the Catholic faith because it is robbing them of the many benefits and blessings. We must try to convert people when we can. We always hear of many missionaries(some of which are saints)converting people. Using your logic, they shouldn’t have done that.
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