To convert, or to not convert?

[Pluviophile]

My family subscribes to the Reformation principle of sola scriptura, but I’ve always been drawn to Catholicism. After reading about J.R.R. Tolkien’s beliefs, I gradually became more and more curious about Catholicism. What started out as an interest in one man’s beliefs became a quest to find and solidify my own. My extensive research has convinced me of the validity of the doctrines and traditions of the Church, with only the question of Purgatory and indulgences still running through my head. Vocalizing my interest in Catholicism led family members, friends, teachers, and peers (atheist and Christian alike) to persuade me to abandon such desires.

After that, I went through a time of great hardships and experienced severe depression. In response, I blamed God. I blamed Him for the harsh circumstances I was exposed to. The people who were cruel to me were also the people who spoke of God in honeyed tongues. I felt conflicted. If God was with them, I reasoned, He was against me. Or non-existent. These doubts passed, however, and I entered a period of spiritual rebirth. I now understand that God allowed me to break until I was so broken I had no other choice but to seek Him. I am so grateful for that.

Recently, I’ve felt led to join the Church. I spend my time thinking and praying and researching and discussing theology with my seminarian friend. Two nights ago, I felt so deeply moved by a conversation with my friend that I decided that I do, in fact, want to convert to Catholicism. The problem is, I’m under 18. My parents are very rigorous Baptists. Anything that differs from their beliefs is wrong. If I choose to have different beliefs, well… I do not think they will support me in my conversion. To further complicate matters, my home life is very, very, very difficult and often unstable. I do not feel healthy in my environment. I know my parents love me, but they do not convey it save through monetary efforts. They are both very hurt people (physically as well as emotionally) who are unhappy together. I do not wish to inflict further pain on them (or, in the process, myself), but this is something I firmly believe God has led me to. Am I even allowed to consider converting without parental consent until I am legally an adult? Should I just wait until I am 18?

Any advice/prayers would be greatly appreciated.

In Christ,
Ella

 

[Tous_Logous]

Have you tried contacting a local parish priest and speaking about your issues/concerns?

 

[Iron_Donkey]

Hi,

It sounds like you’re in a tough situation, especially regarding family matters. I can only echo the previous poster in suggesting talking to a local parish priest and seeking his advice. It’s great that you feel God calling you home to His church though, and we’re definitely looking forward to having you - be it now or later, should you end up having to wait a while to convert officially.

 

[Michael57]

Follow your heart, be patient, and be prudent.

Talk to a priest if you can, and in the meantime you can learn about what the Church teaches at this link: LINK TO CCC.

 

[Edmundus1581]

…Vocalizing my interest in Catholicism led family members, friends, teachers, and peers (atheist and Christian alike) to persuade me to abandon such desires. …

And how much of what they said was true? (that is, strictly true… in the details… not just “everyone knows it” true?)

…The people who were cruel to me were also the people who spoke of God in honeyed tongues.

You are very insightful.

 

[MJJean]

How old are you? Are you close to 18? When you say family and friends tried to convince you to abandon the idea of converting does that include your parents? If so, I can see two options. 1) Research and learn as much as you can about the Church while biding your time and then convert when you are 18. 2) Go speak to a local priest, explain your situation, and see if it’s possible to have one or both parents also speak to the priest so that any misconceptions can be cleared up and perhaps one or both parents would support you in your decision so that you don’t have to wait.

Conversion to Catholicism is a big decision. Definitely not something to do on a whim or to take lightly. Some teachings of the Church are things that quite a lot of people in modern America can’t/won’t agree with.

For example, Catholics believe that birth control is wrong. This means practicing natural family planning (NFP) when married.

Premarital sex is a grave sin and so is masturbation.

Catholics believe that marriage is for life and Catholics are required to marry in front of a priest or have a dispensation to marry otherwise. Which means, according to the Church, a divorce does not dissolve a valid marriage and remarriage in the Church is not possible without a Church annulment to prove the marriage was invalid according to Church rules.

Mass attendance is required on Sunday (or the preceeding Saturday) unless there is a serious reason to miss such as work or illness. There are certain days of the year called Holy Days of Obligation where mass attendance is required unless there is a serious reason to miss.

Gay marriage is not ok.

Abortion is not ok.

Artificial means of conception for infertile couples is not ok.

There are days of feast and days of fasting and abstaining here and there during the year.

These things might not mean a lot to you now because you are so young, but they are deal breakers for a lot of folks. Make sure you can live with the rules and are truly committed before you make the decision to convert.

 

[ClearWater]

with only the question of** Purgatory and indulgences** still running through my head. Vocalizing my interest in Catholicism led family members, friends, teachers, and peers (atheist and Christian alike) to persuade me to abandon such desires.

First of all, I wanted to commend you for exploring your faith and actively seeking out truth. If you have questions on the Catholic faith, you have defrinitely come to the right place for answers!

Purgatory:

Okay…purgatory…is SCRIPTURAL. See Isaiah 6:1-7. Isaiah had his tongue cleansed with fire and his guilt was removed at the same time. This is because we can’t be in heaven or God’s presence in a state of any kind of sin.

Matthew 5:25-26 Jesus says one will not get out of prison until the very last penny is paid. What prison do you think he’s referring to? We believe he was referring to the prison of purgatory.

Mark 9:49 EVERYONE will be salted with fire.

1 Corinthians 3:12-15 On the day of judgment, fire will test our works.

Revelations 21:27…Nothing unclean can get into heaven…

Who among us is perfectly clean right now without ANY sin?

 

[ClearWater]

My extensive research has convinced me of the validity of the doctrines and traditions of the Church, with only the question of Purgatory and indulgences still running through my head. /QUOTE]

Can someone on the forum who is more “in the know” address the topic of indulgences, since it seems to be of concern right now?

 

[fred_conty]

Pluviophile;11380804:

My extensive research has convinced me of the validity of the doctrines and traditions of the Church, with only the question of Purgatory and indulgenc

es still running through my head. /QUOTE]

Can someone on the forum who is more “in the know” address the topic of indulgences, since it seems to be of concern right now?

purgatory from Catholic answers
catholic.com/tracts/purgatory

Christ refers to the sinner who “will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come” (Matt. 12:32), suggesting that one can be freed after death of the consequences of one’s sins. Similarly, Paul tells us that, when we are judged, each man’s work will be tried. And what happens if a righteous man’s work fails the test? “He will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire” (1 Cor 3:15). Now this loss, this penalty, can’t refer to consignment to hell, since no one is saved there; and heaven can’t be meant, since there is no suffering (“fire”) there. The Catholic doctrine of purgatory alone explains this passage."

Then, of course, there is the Bible’s approval of prayers for the dead: “In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view; for if he were not expecting the dead to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death. But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin” (2 Macc. 12:43–45). Prayers are not needed by those in heaven, and no one can help those in hell. That means some people must be in a third condition, at least temporarily. This verse so clearly illustrates the existence of purgatory that, at the time of the Reformation, Protestants had to cut the books of the Maccabees out of their Bibles in order to avoid accepting the doctrine.

 

[bettyg51]

The requirements for baptism are listed at vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P2X.HTM.
Can. 864 Every person not yet baptized and only such a person is capable of baptism.

We require children above the age of seven to go through RCIA. They have to consent to the baptism. I don’t see where it says the church requires parental consent after age seven.

Canon Law requires baptism before a Catholic can be married. It has a very low minimum age for marriage in the church. Thus, it seems that the minimum age for baptism without parental consent is lower than the age for marriage.

Can. 1083 §1. A man before he has completed his sixteenth year of age and a woman before she has completed her fourteenth year of age cannot enter into a valid marriage." vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_P3Y.HTM

Therefore, the issue is whether you want to go against your parent’s wishes. I wonder whether they would be OK with it if they read a book of apologetics and had their questions answered? Catholics do have answers to their objections. Karl Keating’s book, “Catholicism and Fundamentalism” might be helpful. There are many other books at the Catholic.com bookstore that would help. If you take them to a priest, make sure he has studied apologetics first.

 

[Joseph73]

Congratulations on your desire to join the Catholic Church, the one started by Jesus and Peter, the first Pope. Whether you convert now or later, you are definitely on the right path! Welcome home!

 

[71326]

One recommendation as or before you convert is to pick out a saint or two. Get to know his or her life, because upon entering the church or during a baptism we may have their name conferred on us. I assume this can be just like a second name or middle name. Also an important reminder to pray with them.

 

[TRH1292]

I will pray for you friend!

Try to talk to a local priest!

 

[Pluviophile]

First of all, thank you so much for the kind responses. I am so grateful for your support!

Have you tried contacting a local parish priest and speaking about your issues/concerns?

I haven’t, but I think I will call the parish sometime this week to see if it would be possible to speak with a priest about the matter. I must admit, I am quite anxious/nervous to call.

And how much of what they said was true? (that is, strictly true… in the details… not just “everyone knows it” true?)

Here’s a few of the statements I’ve heard:

1. “Jesus said, ‘I don’t like to hear the same prayers.’”
   (While I’m pretty sure Jesus didn’t say that, I understand what they’re trying to say. I, however, disagree with their judgement on this one. I think God is beyond words, He is more interested in our hearts and what we truly feel. It helps me, for example, to repeat the Litany of Humility. I don’t understand how there could be anything wrong with that.)
2. Catholics are modern Pharisees
3. Catholics don’t read the Bible.
4. You don’t need to confess–Jesus already saved you .
5. You shouldn’t pray to saints.
6. Purgatory doesn’t exist
7. Don’t “worship” Mary
8. The pope doesn’t have Biblical authority

The list goes on and on, but the more research I do the more I am inclined to disagree. When I try to explain my understanding of scripture and history to back up my beliefs, however, I am immediately that I am wrong or that I should talk to the pastor at my church. At this point, I think it comes down to different scriptural interpretations. My parents aren’t willing to listen to alternative views.

 

[Pluviophile]

How old are you? Are you close to 18? When you say family and friends tried to convince you to abandon the idea of converting does that include your parents? If so, I can see two options. 1) Research and learn as much as you can about the Church while biding your time and then convert when you are 18. 2) Go speak to a local priest, explain your situation, and see if it’s possible to have one or both parents also speak to the priest so that any misconceptions can be cleared up and perhaps one or both parents would support you in your decision so that you don’t have to wait.

Conversion to Catholicism is a big decision. Definitely not something to do on a whim or to take lightly. Some teachings of the Church are things that quite a lot of people in modern America can’t/won’t agree with.

I’m less than 10 months away from turning 18. I know it isn’t that long, but it still feels like an eternity, you know? And then the more paranoid part of my mind kicks in, and I begin to freak out because I’ve never been baptized, and what if I die?!? But I just need to calm down and trust that God has everything planned according to His will. Thank you for your advice–I definitely agree. I do not think that my parents would be open to meeting with a priest, though.

Purgatory:

Okay…purgatory…is SCRIPTURAL. See Isaiah 6:1-7. Isaiah had his tongue cleansed with fire and his guilt was removed at the same time. This is because we can’t be in heaven or God’s presence in a state of any kind of sin.

Thank you so much for explaining Purgatory and presenting the scriptural basis for it. That really helped! It makes sense to me now!

ClearWater;11381569:

This verse so clearly illustrates the existence of purgatory that, at the time of the Reformation, Protestants had to cut the books of the Maccabees out of their Bibles in order to avoid accepting the doctrine.

That makes sense! When I asked my mentor about Maccabees once, he told me that the Protestants took it out because it wasn’t “valid.” I never understood what he meant by that… It makes more sense that they would’ve removed it because it went against what they wanted to believe.

The requirements for baptism are listed at vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P2X.HTM

.
Can. 864 Every person not yet baptized and only such a person is capable of baptism.

We require children above the age of seven to go through RCIA. They have to consent to the baptism. I don’t see where it says the church requires parental consent after age seven.
Therefore, the issue is whether you want to go against your parent’s wishes. I wonder whether they would be OK with it if they read a book of apologetics and had their questions answered? Catholics do have answers to their objections. Karl Keating’s book, “Catholicism and Fundamentalism” might be helpful. There are many other books at the Catholic.com bookstore that would help. If you take them to a priest, make sure he has studied apologetics first.

Unfortunately, I do not think they are even open to reading about Catholicism—they are very much opposed to it. They’re not really the sort to read much, either. I think what it comes down to is that they interpret scripture differently, and as such, do not see the need to consider Catholicism a viable faith.

One recommendation as or before you convert is to pick out a saint or two. Get to know his or her life, because upon entering the church or during a baptism we may have their name conferred on us. I assume this can be just like a second name or middle name. Also an important reminder to pray with them.

I will definitely do this! Thank you so much!!

 

[MJJean]

Don’t be nervous to call the priest. (I have a special fondness for Jesuits if you happen to have a Jesuit parish near you. And their specialty is conversion. We found our priest via Google).

I am 38 and remarried. I was everything from Lutheran to Pagan to Atheist to Agnostic. When my husband, a lapsed catholic, returned to the Church I decided to attend Mass and see what it was all about. I fell in love with the Mass and the Church and decided to convert. I was s very nervous to talk to the priest, but he was so wonderful! He was kind caring compassionate, very willing to help me solve any issues I was having and I am now in RCIA and hoping to be Confirmed at Easter if my annulment of a previous marriage is granted by then. Believe me, if I can walk in and meet with a priest so can you!

I am sorry your parents aren’t willing to listen to you and accept your decision yet. Pray for them to have open hearts.

 

[chero23]

You need to pray a lot. Study the faith. When you feel is time is time. God willing your family can accept that. But the main two things is pray and study Catholicism, not so much to defend your decision but for you to be in peace that the decision that you made was right.

 

[TinyButterfly]

((((((((HUGS)))))))

A book that helped me along my journey to the Catholic Church was Rome Sweet Home by Scott Hahn.

I would actually recommend any of his books to you. He was a Protestant who converted to the Catholic faith. He does a great job addressing concerns and questions that Protestants have when considering the Catholic Church.

I would also recommend getting a rosary and learning to pray with it if you are comfortable doing that. It is a very Christ-centered form of prayer.

I am much, much older than you are and both of my parents were very upset when I converted. But I knew this is where I belonged, where I was being led.

Those 10 months will pass and you will be 18 sooner than you think. While you are waiting read, pray, talk to a priest and be patient. <3

 

[Pluviophile]

Don’t be nervous to call the priest. (I have a special fondness for Jesuits if you happen to have a Jesuit parish near you. And their specialty is conversion. We found our priest via Google).

I am 38 and remarried. I was everything from Lutheran to Pagan to Atheist to Agnostic. When my husband, a lapsed catholic, returned to the Church I decided to attend Mass and see what it was all about. I fell in love with the Mass and the Church and decided to convert. I was s very nervous to talk to the priest, but he was so wonderful! He was kind caring compassionate, very willing to help me solve any issues I was having and I am now in RCIA and hoping to be Confirmed at Easter if my annulment of a previous marriage is granted by then. Believe me, if I can walk in and meet with a priest so can you!

I am sorry your parents aren’t willing to listen to you and accept your decision yet. Pray for them to have open hearts.

We don’t any Jesuits nearby, unfortunately. But I will definitely give our parish a call this week. Thank you for sharing your experience! That definitely made me feel better about it!

You need to pray a lot. Study the faith. When you feel is time is time. God willing your family can accept that. But the main two things is pray and study Catholicism, not so much to defend your decision but for you to be in peace that the decision that you made was right.

I am so glad you said that. Thank you so much! I feel like before, while I was still researching aspects of the Church because I was genuinely interested, a part of my mind was always checking to see how I could use the information to counter the arguments against Catholicism. But I’m learning that people are always going to be unhappy with me, no matter what I do or believe. It’s more important for me to be at peace with my decision, because ultimately, it’s between me and God.

((((((((HUGS)))))))

A book that helped me along my journey to the Catholic Church was Rome Sweet Home by Scott Hahn.

I would actually recommend any of his books to you. He was a Protestant who converted to the Catholic faith. He does a great job addressing concerns and questions that Protestants have when considering the Catholic Church.

I would also recommend getting a rosary and learning to pray with it if you are comfortable doing that. It is a very Christ-centered form of prayer.

I am much, much older than you are and both of my parents were very upset when I converted. But I knew this is where I belonged, where I was being led.

Those 10 months will pass and you will be 18 sooner than you think. While you are waiting read, pray, talk to a priest and be patient. <3

Thank you for the advice and kindness! I bought a rosary yesterday and have started learning the prayers. It’s really beautiful! Although, it feels strange right now, because it’s something that I’ve never been exposed to before. It’s strange saying the same prayers, but I like it. It forces me to concentrate, and I really appreciate that. I wonder if any other converts have experienced confusions/difficulties at first as well?

Thank you for the encouragement and advice. I am so grateful and blessed to have this community as a resource–everyone has been so kind to me!

 

[MJJean]

We don’t any Jesuits nearby, unfortunately. But I will definitely give our parish a call this week. Thank you for sharing your experience! That definitely made me feel better about it!

But I’m learning that people are always going to be unhappy with me, no matter what I do or believe. It’s more important for me to be at peace with my decision, because ultimately, it’s between me and God.

Thank you for the advice and kindness! I bought a rosary yesterday and have started learning the prayers. It’s really beautiful! Although, it feels strange right now, because it’s something that I’ve never been exposed to before. It’s strange saying the same prayers, but I like it. It forces me to concentrate, and I really appreciate that. I wonder if any other converts have experienced confusions/difficulties at first as well?

Thank you for the encouragement and advice. I am so grateful and blessed to have this community as a resource–everyone has been so kind to me!

You’re very welcome!

Yes, people are always going to have something to be unhappy about. And you are absolutely correct that your faith is between you and God. When people give you grief and you find that even some catholics are difficult to deal with, just remember that!

I haven’t tried praying the rosary. I am very interested, though. I have a terrible memory and I know it will be a challenge for me to learn. I’m still working on memorizing the Apostles Creed and I’ve been at Mass every week since Pentecost! I’ve also had some struggle with some teachings and ideas I was never exposed to before. I think that’s normal for converts.