To Die Drunk

[Proeliator]

Just want to know if anyone has any wisdom to offer me (which I know there is plenty of here)? If someone dies tragically, say in an auto accident and happens to be intoxicated do you think they still can get to heaven. I feel personally that with no time to confess this mortal sin perhaps there is still a chance at purgatory. Will someone please shed some light on this for me. Thank you.

 

[pac]

Thats an interesting question…seeing that alot unfortunate people die in that manner. But just a quick answer ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE WITH GOD…i hope that helps

 

[masondoggy]

Being drunk is not a mortal sin. Being drunk and getting behind the wheel is. Depends on what your doing while your drunk.

 

[Madaglan]

I just recently came across a passage that might be relevant:

“It is not for kings, O Lemuel–not for kings to drink wine, not for rulers to crave beer, lest they drink and forget what the law decrees, and deprive all the oppressed of their rights. Give beer to those who are perishing, wine to those who are in anguish; let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more.” (Proverbs 31:4-7)

Do these italicized verses endorse the idea that dying and suffering people should be medicated with alcohol?

If so, it may be that a person who drinks to excess (not for pleasure but to numb pain) is not really committing a sin but only medicating him or herself. At least, that’s what this Biblical passage seems to suggest…

What do you think?

 

[LilyM]

Very simply it is not ours to judge the state of another’s soul. We don’t know their state of mind either when they get drunk or drive, nor what their state of soul is at their last moments.

All we can and should do is commend them to God’s mercy.

 

[ed1000]

I looked for the reference quickly but couldn’t find it - I know I’ve heard it on ewtn radio - that the final moment when you face God after death is still a chance at salvation, depending on whether or not you then accept Him. The priest discussing this in was making the point that we really cannot know the disposition after death even of an athiest - what follows is beyond our perception. And in my mind, it is even beyond our cognition. Also, just operating from intuition, the body is what is drunk, and if the body is dead, how can the person still be “drunk?” I think you would have your slate wiped clean as possible for that encounter after death.

While I was muddling out this reply, LilyM posted what I meant much more concisely!

Regarding the Proverb, I could be off, but sometimes I read things like this and look for a little charitable sarcasm, or hyperbole, or implied meaning that seems to be a part of Jewish temperament and teaching. Jesus talked that way too! In one respect, the Proverb also sounds like a dig at social or economic inequality.

 

[Madaglan]

I remember a story: I think it was by St. Catherine of Siena. She had a vision of a recent suicide being saved under the bridge (supposedly he would have gone to Hell but by the mercy of God.)

 

[Pious_Mat]

The problem of sudden death extends beyond an accident or intoxication; what about all those people who die in their sleep, or in plane crashes, or in natural disasters? Very few of us have the benefit of being able to know that we will die soon, and confess and receive unction.

When Our Lord told us to repent, for we know not the hour or day of the second coming, his words also applied to sudden death: it is important that we go to confession, recieve communion, pray, and be good to our brothers and sisters all our lives, so that should we die suddenly, we will be prepared to face God and answer for our Earthly lives.

Second, should something sudden happen to a good person who has led a Holy life, we not worry about them being thrust into the fires of Hell because of a few unconfessed sins. That is what purgatory is for. We don’t know exactly what is needed to get into Heaven, but we do know that God looks at an individual’s whole life, and most of all, whether they believe and are sorry for their sins.

Lastly, as was said before, there is always time left to repent and believe, right up until the last minute.

However, the matter is complicated by the fact that if one were to die intoxicated behind the wheel, there is a possibilty that an even greater sin is incurred–murder.

Either way, you never can tell. That is why it is important to repent, believe, and lead a righteous life.

 

[paramedicgirl]

I remember a story: I think it was by St. Catherine of Siena. She had a vision of a recent suicide being saved under the bridge (supposedly he would have gone to Hell but by the mercy of God.)

I remember a story like that. It said the guy was saved because through his sister’s prayers (who was a nun), God had given him the chance to make a perfect act of contrition before he died, and was able to make the act. Thus he was saved.

 

[richardwy]

I leave happily all such matters to God.

St. Joan of Arc was quizzed whether or not she was “saved.”

She replied something like, “if I be not, may it please God to make me so; and if I be, may it please God to keep me so.”

Me knowing the condition of someone else’s soul and their eternal destiny is really out of my league and job description.

 

[Catholig]

Being drunk is not a mortal sin. Being drunk and getting behind the wheel is. Depends on what your doing while your drunk.

Uhhmm - I got the general impression (on these here forums) that being drunk is a mortal sin. Do you have any way to confirm what you are saying?

Catholig

 

[Madaglan]

Originally Posted by Catholig:

Uhhmm - I got the general impression (on these here forums) that being drunk is a mortal sin. Do you have any way to confirm what you are saying?

Catholig

*Being *drunk is not a sin at all. Now, getting drunk might be a different matter.

Being an adulterer is not a sin. Committing adultery is a sin.

At least, that’s how I thought the RCC understands it.

 

[blessedtoo]

*Being *drunk is not a sin at all. Now, getting drunk might be a different matter.

Being an adulterer is not a sin. Committing adultery is a sin.

At least, that’s how I thought the RCC understands it.

9Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers,
10Nor the effeminate, nor liers with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners, shall possess the kingdom of God.

Being drunk, getting drunk - doesn’t matter. Semantics here. Excessive use of alcohol or drugs in a sin.

One can’t be an adulterer unless one commits adultery. Clearly, an adulterer is sinning.

Those who suffer from alcoholism may be less culpable of sin because they are addicted to the substance. Of course, the final judgement is completely God’s.

Forgive the dopey boldface! Can’t erase it!

 

[blessedtoo]

I know I’ve heard it on ewtn radio - that the final moment when you face God after death is still a chance at salvation, depending on whether or not you then accept Him

.
Doesn’t this fly in the face of what we’ve been taught as Catholics? First we are told we can repent at the moment of death, despite whatever sinful lives we have lived. Now we are told we can still repent AFTER death???

 

[thistle]

Just want to know if anyone has any wisdom to offer me (which I know there is plenty of here)? If someone dies tragically, say in an auto accident and happens to be intoxicated do you think they still can get to heaven. I feel personally that with no time to confess this mortal sin perhaps there is still a chance at purgatory. Will someone please shed some light on this for me. Thank you.

As other posters have pointed out nobody knows the state of anyone’s soul at the moment of death except God. However, talking generally, if a person dies in a state of unrepented mortal sin then that person is condemned to Hell. There is no second chance after death to ask for mercy. You are saved or condemned by the state of your soul at the time of death.

 

[paramedicgirl]

.
Doesn’t this fly in the face of what we’ve been taught as Catholics? First we are told we can repent at the moment of death, despite whatever sinful lives we have lived. Now we are told we can still repent AFTER death???

You are right. The teaching is “at the moment of death.” However, the saints caution that it is extremely rare to be given that very special grace of final repentance. It would be presumptuous for one to expect it or even to look forward to it.

 

[Madaglan]

Originally Posted by blessedtoo:

Being drunk, getting drunk - doesn’t matter. Semantics here. Excessive use of alcohol or drugs in a sin.

One can’t be an adulterer unless one commits adultery. Clearly, an adulterer is sinning.

Those who suffer from alcoholism may be less culpable of sin because they are addicted to the substance. Of course, the final judgement is completely God’s.

Forgive the dopey boldface! Can’t erase it!

I was simply distinguishing between a state following from or linked to an action and the action itself. In Catholic theology, it is the moral act (either mental or acted out) that is the subject of moral rightness or wrongness.

For example, “being gay” is not a sin. Laying aside the argument of whether or not someone can truly, ontologically and genetically be gay, we commonly call certain persons as “gay” who have or express homosexual tendencies. Yet, their “being gay” is not a sin (at least according to Catholic moral theology). Only when they act on or enertain their homosexual tendencies are they committing a sin.

 

[blessedtoo]

I was simply distinguishing between a state following from or linked to an action and the action itself. In Catholic theology, it is the moral act (either mental or acted out) that is the subject of moral rightness or wrongness.

For example, “being gay” is not a sin. Laying aside the argument of whether or not someone can truly, ontologically and genetically be gay, we commonly call certain persons as “gay” who have or express homosexual tendencies. Yet, their “being gay” is not a sin (at least according to Catholic moral theology). Only when they act on or enertain their homosexual tendencies are they committing a sin.

I understand.

In that case, I would equate it with alcohol itself, not drunkeness. Alcohol holds no instrinsic morality alone. It is a thing. But drunkeness is a state, a condition and so requires an action and intention. Same with adultery and adulterers. Sex itself is not good or bad. It is the use or misuse of sex which provides the morality.

Not to derail the thread, but just to clarify: Homosexual inclinations or SSA in and of itself is not sinful. However, the Catechism states that the inclination is intrinsically disordered. I am an ex-drunk. The inclination I have for alcohol is also disordered. If I do not drink, I do not sin. But it does not negate the fact that my compulsion, drive, attraction to alcohol is disordered.

Does that make sense?

 

[Madaglan]

Originally Posted by blessedtoo:

I understand.

In that case, I would equate it with alcohol itself, not drunkeness. Alcohol holds no instrinsic morality alone. It is a thing. But drunkeness is a state, a condition and so requires an action and intention. Same with adultery and adulterers. Sex itself is not good or bad. It is the use or misuse of sex which provides the morality.

Not to derail the thread, but just to clarify: Homosexual inclinations or SSA in and of in itself is not sinful. However, the Catechism states that the inclination is intrinsically disordered. I am an ex-drunk. The inclination I have for alcohol is also disordered. If I do not drink, I do not s. But it does not negate the fact that my compulsion, drive, attraction to alcohol is disordered.

Does that make sense?

No, it does not make sense.

But before I go into this, I agree with much of what you write. I agree with you that, as alcohol is an object, no moral value can be ascribed to it. It’s people who sin, not alcohol. A state presupposes an action or intention, one either arriving to or proceeding from. Sex in itself is not bad, but the misuse. There are, however, intrinsically evil acts. Abortion, for example, is never justifiable.

Yes, you are right: SSA is not a sin. However, here is where I come into disagreement with you (if I understand what you are getting at). Yes, the inclination is truly disordered, but this does not mean (according to Catholic theology) that the inclination itself is sinful. Human nature is gravely disordered by the Fall, but this does not mean that the concupiscence therefrom arising is itself sin or sinful. (at least in Catholic theology; in Lutheran theology, concupisence is a sin or sinful).

 

[ed1000]

blessed & paramedic: I guess I misspoke, or at the very least blurred that space between unconsciousness and death, but dying in a crash might make them virtually simultaneous. Then its up to Jesus, which is all I meant anyway.

Since I was standing on (self declared) shaky ground by not being sure of my sources, I’ve searched a little and found a thread that seems to resonate with the original question:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=89418&highlight=final+repentance