To forgive, or not to forgive?

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Actually it has been also been said that this verse on much more careful contextual reading is not about “outing” people for their sins but about excommunication and removing those unworthy of the Sacrament of Eucharist from the Communion Rail. Try rereading with that understanding.
Yes, I can see that, but I wonder. Shouldn’t the way the Church forgives its own, and the way we forgive one another, both be like the way Christ forgives all of us? It seems to me that Jesus sets the example, and the bar, for forgiveness. He forgives perfectly, with a balance of mercy and love and justice and wisdom that we can only try to imitate. The Church follows Christ’s lead. It sets the example for all of us to follow by forgiving its own the way Christ forgives. We then follow the example of the Church by imitating the way She forgives, as she imitates the way He forgives. As Saint Paul the Apostle wrote:

Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.

(1 Corinthians 11:1)
 
Yes, I can see that, but I wonder. Shouldn’t the way the Church forgives its own, and the way we forgive one another, both be like the way Christ forgives all of us? It seems to me that Jesus sets the example, and the bar, for forgiveness. He forgives perfectly, with a balance of mercy and love and justice and wisdom that we can only try to imitate. The Church follows Christ’s lead. It sets the example for all of us to follow by forgiving its own the way Christ forgives. We then follow the example of the Church by imitating the way She forgives, as she imitates the way He forgives. As Saint Paul the Apostle wrote:

Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.

(1 Corinthians 11:1)
Yes and no - we as human beings will never be able to forgive in the same way Christ forgives or the Church does (remember the Church forgives with the authority of Christ). We are imperfect - he is not.
 
In most cases, you would never know whether or not someone feels repentence for having offended you. What about the “creep” who cuts you off in traffic? They aren’t going to stop at the next red light, wait for you to pull up next to them, and then roll down their window to apologize. That would be nice, but chances are…
Makes sense to me!

👍

No way of knowing the creep repented, and no chance to confront the creep. In that case, I suppose the only way I could forgive her is by not holding a grudge. Now what about this: She nearly hits a young child crossing the street and doesn’t blink an eye. You pray that God will keep her from hitting someone in the future.

Next Sunday at Mass, you get the answer to your prayer: The dangerously-driving creep sits next to you! Do you confront her about her sin, or do you forgive and forget and not go there? What do you think Jesus would want you to do?
 
Yes and no - we as human beings will never be able to forgive in the same way Christ forgives or the Church does (remember the Church forgives with the authority of Christ). We are imperfect - he is not.
True, we are imperfect, but does that mean that we should not do our best to be as perfect as we can be?

“Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

(Matthew 5:48)

Or do you think we should not even try to imitate Jesus?

Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.

(Ephesians 5:1-3)

Shouldn’t we love (and forgive) others just as Christ loved (and forgave) us? What do Jesus and Paul say to you?
 
Makes sense to me!

👍

No way of knowing the creep repented, and no chance to confront the creep. In that case, I suppose the only way I could forgive her is by not holding a grudge. Now what about this: She nearly hits a young child crossing the street and doesn’t blink an eye. You pray that God will keep her from hitting someone in the future.

Next Sunday at Mass, you get the answer to your prayer: The dangerously-driving creep sits next to you! Do you confront her about her sin, or do you forgive and forget and not go there? What do you think Jesus would want you to do?
Why do you assume the creepy driver is a “she”???

Funny, I assumed it was a “he”. 😃

Seriously, if you have the good fortune to be seated next to that very same driving creep in Church, I would say that confronting them about their dangerous driving habits is totally acceptable, and that doesn’t mean you aren’t forgiving them. We are also obliged to admonish the sinner. You can forgive and admonish together.
 
I’m curious about something. Is forgiving for you, or is it for the ones you forgive? I suppose what I’m asking is that when you forgive, is it an internal thing only (changing your own emotions and attitude) or is it an external thing as well (changing the way you treat others)? If it is external, in what way does your treatment of others change? How do your actions show you are forgiving the forgiven one?

For me it’s both. Sometimes the people I ask for forginess, have no idea that I did them wrong. And the ones that do my biggest fear is that they would say, no I don’t forgive you. But no one has yet. An old gentleman once heard someone ask me for forgivness I did’nt know how to handle that situation so I must of bable something because this gentle man told me when someone ask’s you for forgivness just say “Yes i forgive you” nothing more nothing less, He said that they are asking, so that they can be free of that burden.

And yes for me it’s about changing my behavior, what good would it do me to ask one person for forgiveness and do the samething to someone else. but then agian easier said then done.

God bless
jesus g
 
True, we are imperfect, but does that mean that we should not do our best to be as perfect as we can be?

“Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

(Matthew 5:48)

Or do you think we should not even try to imitate Jesus?

Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.

(Ephesians 5:1-3)

Shouldn’t we love (and forgive) others just as Christ loved (and forgave) us? What do Jesus and Paul say to you?
We can try but again to think that we ever will achieve the same level of forgiveness as God is a whole other sin.
 
Let’s consider the immediate context of Matthew 10:16.

11 “Whatever town or village you enter, search for some worthy person there and stay at his house until you leave. 12 As you enter the home, give it your greeting. 13 If the home is deserving, let your peace rest on it; if it is not, let your peace return to you. 14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town. 15 I tell you the truth, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town. 16 I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.

(Matthew 10)

Please tell me, Digger, do the words, “I tell you the truth, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town,” speak of forgiveness or of the opposite? Isn’t judging people for their sins the opposite of completely forgiving them for their sins?

🤷
But it is Jesus who is doing the judgment, not us. Jesus is merely telling them that the final judgment belongs to him, not them. That is why when St. John asked Jesus if he would like them to “command fire to come down from heaven, and consume” those who did not receive him, he rebuked them, because it was not their right to judge these people, but only God’s right. (Luke 9.53-55) If we cannot judge, we can do nothing but forgive, because to punish a person with your hatred would be to bring a judgment upon them that is not your right.
 
Regarding what actually happened to Peter, we know that he felt real regret for his sin of cowardice, and we know that Jesus forgave him. Do you think that his repenting and confessing his sin was necessary for Jesus to forgive him?
This is an excellent question of which I can only speculate. We know Peter repented, but what if (in an alternate universe no less ;)) Peter had not repented. When Jesus was on the cross, he asked the Father to forgive those who crucified Him for they knew not what they were doing. Did Peter not really know what he was doing? Surely he was wrong not to be there for Christ. But did he not truly understand how wrong it is not to defend the Son of God? We know he knew Jesus was the Son of God. After all, after Peter confessed that Jesus was the Son of God, Christ promised Peter the keys to the Kingdom. I’ll presume that Peter knew on an intellectual level what he was doing, but that he didn’t fully grasp it.

When I think of what a mortal sin is, it has three qualities that make it so: (1) Grave matter, (2) Knowledge that it is grave matter, and (3) Full consent of the will regarding that grave matter.

(1) Was Peter being a coward towards Jesus, the Son of God, grave matter? I will say that is a yes.
(2) Did Peter know that Jesus was the Son of God? The Gospels say he knew this, therefore that is another yes.
(3) Did Peter fully consent to his decision to act cowardly towards Jesus, the Son of God? Hmmmm, only God knows that. But for the sake of argument that “alternative universe” Peters can not have some in Heaven and others in Hell, I’ll say that although he knew Jesus was the Son of God and acted devestatingly contrary to what he ought to have done which was to stay and defend Jesus, he did not fully consent to that action (meaning that he only knew on some intellectual level of who Jesus was as Son of God, but did not truly understand the implications of that on a spiritual level), nor did he understand fully the implications of leaving Jesus behind.

With these conditions, I will go out on a limb and say that Peter did not need to repent of that sin of cowardice to avoid hell because he had not mortally sinned. He would have committed grave sin (in my opinion), which may have needed purgation before entry into heaven perhaps.
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spockrates:
Comparing Peter to Judas, do you think that Judas, if he did not repent and confess his sin, might not be forgiven?
Also an excellent question. Here the circumstances are a little different. We know that at the last supper one of the Gospels (I think John’s) says that Satan entered Judas. To me, this implies mortal sin has been committed. Mortal sin must be repented of otherwise he would go to hell. Do I believe Judas comitted mortal sin against Christ? Jesus said it would have been better if Judas had never been born and told other sinners around the time He was crucified that the one who betrayed Jesus (Judas) had the bigger sin. Judas might not have been forgiven.

Going back to the cross when Jesus asked the Father to forgive those who crucified Him for they knew not what they were doing, did He also ask about Judas? Perhaps Judas knew what he was doing. Even if he didn’t know that Jesus truly was the Son of God, it is still grave matter to have someone killed at the hand of the Romans and it is quite possible he fully consented to have Jesus killed.
 
Yes, Doc, I think that was the answer for which I was looking! At least, that’s what I’m wondering about.

So then, would you say that since there are times when God requires repentance in order to forgive wrongs done to Him, do you think there are also times when you or I should require repentance in order to forgive wrongs done to us? I’m thinking that this is one thing Jesus is trying to convey with these words:
"So watch yourselves. If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him. If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, ‘I repent,’ forgive him.”

(Luke 17:3-4)
God always requires repentence in order to forgive sins. To assume that God will forgive us if we are not sorry (on some level) is the sin of presumption.

That being said, I am not God. I would *like *have the person who wronged my be sorry for what they have done, because it makes it easier for me to forgive them. Practically though, there are times when I am called to forgive even when the person who has wronged me shows no signs of sorry or repentence (it does not have to be an enemy - I have teenagers :D).

One of the things you have to keep in mind is that the greatest wrong that a human can do to me, another human, is insignificant vs. the smallest wrong that I, a human, can do to the all powerful creator of the universe by who’s will I even exist. This is the stumbling point when we try to compare forgiveness in the moral world with divine forgiveness.
The other thing is that no matter how many times a person commits the same sin, if he genuinely repents, we are required to forgive him. The trick, I guess, is figuring out when the repentance is sincere. That’s what I’m thinking. What are you thinking?
I thinking that you are overthinking this. True forgiveness comes from the heart. No matter what we say or do in public, God knows what is in our hearts and He sees how we forgive or why we do not forgive with a clarity we cannot hope to master.
 
Geepers, creapers, Peepers, wish I had your eyes to read that book! Tell me, please: What did some of the theologians say he should do?
Wiesenthal, himself, chose to say nothing. In the company of the German officer who was dying, Wiesenthal neither forgave him, nor did he refuse to forgive him. He felt that to speak at all could imperil his own life. The officer bequeathed his personal effects to Wiesenthal, who kept them safe and returned them to the officer’s mother after the war. He did not tell the mother how they had met.

The Christian and Buddhist theologians advocated forgiveness, as I recall, for a variety of reasons. It has been years since I read the book. The Jewish theologians may have been mixed in their response. I think I should read the book again to see what I get out of it this time.
 
Why do you assume the creepy driver is a “she”???

Funny, I assumed it was a “he”. 😃

Seriously, if you have the good fortune to be seated next to that very same driving creep in Church, I would say that confronting them about their dangerous driving habits is totally acceptable, and that doesn’t mean you aren’t forgiving them. We are also obliged to admonish the sinner. You can forgive and admonish together.
Yes, Fan, I believe you can forgive first and confront later. But let’s say she tells you to go suck an egg and refuses to change her driving habits. After Mass she recklessly speeds out of the church parking lot and runs over a small child, killing her. The child is a relative of yours–the daughter of your sibling.

Do you forgive her, then? or would you need to confronting her, again before you would consider forgiving her? Is there anything that she would have to do before you would forgive her, or would you continue to forgive her after her showing no desire to change her attitude and behavior?
 
For me it’s both. Sometimes the people I ask for forginess, have no idea that I did them wrong. And the ones that do my biggest fear is that they would say, no I don’t forgive you. But no one has yet. An old gentleman once heard someone ask me for forgivness I did’nt know how to handle that situation so I must of bable something because this gentle man told me when someone ask’s you for forgivness just say “Yes i forgive you” nothing more nothing less, He said that they are asking, so that they can be free of that burden.

And yes for me it’s about changing my behavior, what good would it do me to ask one person for forgiveness and do the samething to someone else. but then agian easier said then done.

God bless
jesus g
Thanks PSR, but I guess I was not clear. I’m not asking what you do when someone forgives you; I’m asking what you do when you forgive someone. I’m asking you, and others here, if any real and significant action accompanies the forgiving feelings. Perhaps it will help me convey the query adequately if we consider the definitions of the word forgive?

for·give
[fer-giv] verb, -gave, -giv·en, -giv·ing.
–verb (used with object)
  1. to grant pardon for or remission of (an offense, debt, etc.); absolve.
  2. to give up all claim on account of; remit (a debt, obligation, etc.).
  3. to grant pardon to (a person).
  4. to cease to feel resentment against: to forgive one’s enemies.
  5. to cancel an indebtedness or liability of: to forgive the interest owed on a loan.
I hear you saying that you forgive, without requiring anything of the forgiven, when it comes to forgiving in the sense of definition (4). For this is a change of feelings toward the one forgiven. But I’m wondering about the acts of forgiveness in the sense of definitions (1), (2) and (3). Do you require anything from a person before you pardon her for the wrong done to you, or before you give up all claim on account of the person, or release her from any obligation to you?

For example, let’s say a neighbor of yours gets drunk, steals your car, goes on a joy ride and wrecks it. Would she have to say or do anything before you would pardon her for that offense against you by not calling the police? Is there anything she could say or do to convince you to released her from her obligation to replace the car she destroyed? Or would you never forgive her (or anyone) in those ways–that is, never in the ways of definitions (1), (2), or (3)?
 
We can try but again to think that we ever will achieve the same level of forgiveness as God is a whole other sin.
Yes, Joan, and discovering the meaning of Jesus’ command to us to be as perfect as God is a topic for a whole other discussion thread!

😃

But I would not go so far as to say that Catholic Thomists who say that such moral perfection is possible are committing a sin. I believe these disciples of Saint Thomas Aquinas are sincere, though perhaps they sincerely wrong. In their cases, their sins (if they have sinned) are those committed in ignorance, and I suppose we can say, as Sacred Scripture says:

Jesus said, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin."

(John 9:41a)

But for the person who lives according to a lie she knows is a lie, our Forgiver says:

“…but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.”

(John 9:41b)

And this raises some good questions about whether the forgiven must meet any conditions for you or I to forgive them. In John 9:41, Jesus is apparently saying that one who meets the condition of being blind to the fact that she has done wrong has met a condition to be forgiven. The condition met is being ignorant of the sinfulness of one’s thought, word, or deed. We should always forgive one who meets this condition.

Don’t you agree?
 
But it is Jesus who is doing the judgment, not us. Jesus is merely telling them that the final judgment belongs to him, not them. That is why when St. John asked Jesus if he would like them to “command fire to come down from heaven, and consume” those who did not receive him, he rebuked them, because it was not their right to judge these people, but only God’s right. (Luke 9.53-55) If we cannot judge, we can do nothing but forgive, because to punish a person with your hatred would be to bring a judgment upon them that is not your right.
Yes, Digger, I agree that there are somethings only God has the right to judge and only He can possibly judge. The thoughts of another come to mind. I cannot read your mind, and you cannot read mine. Only God can judge our thoughts. In this case, Jesus’ command is one we can follow.

“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

(Matthew 7:1-2)

But I wonder if it is possible to live in a way that pleases God without judging another. I mean, consider our courts of law. Is it a sin for a Catholic to be a judge, or a supreme court justice because such a profession requires her to judge others? Consider the job of a priest who must judge the actions of others when giving them counseling. Should he never tell anyone he counsels that she needs to change her behavior because that would be judging her actions as sinful and harmful? Consider an employer who has to judge when it is appropriate to fire an employee for just cause. Should he never fire any employee because such would be judging her conduct? Consider the job of a parent. Should she let her son or daughter do anything he or she wants, or should she make a judgment about what behavior is wrong and deserves discipline of some kind? Saint Paul the Apostle has this to say about the necessity of judging others:

Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, appoint as judges even men of little account in the church!

(1 Corinthians 6:2-4)

I’m thinking that when Jesus tells us to not judge, He actually means we should not judge unfairly or inappropriately. Some things should be left to God alone to judge. Other things we must judge, but we should judge others the way we would want others to judge us if we were in the same sad situation of having committed such a sin.

How do you judge what I’ve said?

🙂
 
This is an excellent question of which I can only speculate. We know Peter repented, but what if (in an alternate universe no less ;)) Peter had not repented. When Jesus was on the cross, he asked the Father to forgive those who crucified Him for they knew not what they were doing. Did Peter not really know what he was doing? Surely he was wrong not to be there for Christ. But did he not truly understand how wrong it is not to defend the Son of God? We know he knew Jesus was the Son of God. After all, after Peter confessed that Jesus was the Son of God, Christ promised Peter the keys to the Kingdom. I’ll presume that Peter knew on an intellectual level what he was doing, but that he didn’t fully grasp it.
True, Stylter. He likely did not know the depth of the seriousness of his sin, but I believe his tears were evidence of that he was not ignorant of his sin, either.
When I think of what a mortal sin is, it has three qualities that make it so: (1) Grave matter, (2) Knowledge that it is grave matter, and (3) Full consent of the will regarding that grave matter.

(1) Was Peter being a coward towards Jesus, the Son of God, grave matter? I will say that is a yes.
(2) Did Peter know that Jesus was the Son of God? The Gospels say he knew this, therefore that is another yes.
(3) Did Peter fully consent to his decision to act cowardly towards Jesus, the Son of God? Hmmmm, only God knows that. But for the sake of argument that “alternative universe” Peters can not have some in Heaven and others in Hell, I’ll say that although he knew Jesus was the Son of God and acted devestatingly contrary to what he ought to have done which was to stay and defend Jesus, he did not fully consent to that action (meaning that he only knew on some intellectual level of who Jesus was as Son of God, but did not truly understand the implications of that on a spiritual level), nor did he understand fully the implications of leaving Jesus behind.

With these conditions, I will go out on a limb and say that Peter did not need to repent of that sin of cowardice to avoid hell because he had not mortally sinned. He would have committed grave sin (in my opinion), which may have needed purgation before entry into heaven perhaps.
Perhaps you are correct about Peter’s misunderstanding of the gravity of his depravity, but this leaves the question unanswered: **

Are there any instances where a person must first repent before we can forgive her?**

I’m fascinated by the number of times I’ve asked this question of others in this discussion thread, because I have yet to receive an answer! Perhaps you will be the first to risk answering the question? Please give me the answer I’m longing to hear but that I fear no one is brave enough to give me.

🙂
 
Also an excellent question. Here the circumstances are a little different. We know that at the last supper one of the Gospels (I think John’s) says that Satan entered Judas. To me, this implies mortal sin has been committed. Mortal sin must be repented of otherwise he would go to hell. Do I believe Judas comitted mortal sin against Christ? Jesus said it would have been better if Judas had never been born and told other sinners around the time He was crucified that the one who betrayed Jesus (Judas) had the bigger sin. Judas might not have been forgiven.

Going back to the cross when Jesus asked the Father to forgive those who crucified Him for they knew not what they were doing, did He also ask about Judas? Perhaps Judas knew what he was doing. Even if he didn’t know that Jesus truly was the Son of God, it is still grave matter to have someone killed at the hand of the Romans and it is quite possible he fully consented to have Jesus killed.
Thanks for your thoughtful comments! I can see you’ve taken the time to consider this carefully. My thought is that IF Judas was forgiven, it certainly would NOT have been better if he had never been born. Even if he were to spend time in Purgatory, eternity in Heaven would eventually be his state of existence, and a forever with Christ is better, by far, than a time of suffering to get there.

What I gather from what you are saying is that God does not normally forgive those who knowingly commit mortal sins without later repenting. Is this the gist of your opinion?
 
Thanks, Doc for treating the mind of this patient!

😉
[/INDENT]God always requires repentence in order to forgive sins. To assume that God will forgive us if we are not sorry (on some level) is the sin of presumption.
Then shouldn’t we require the same?
That being said, I am not God. I would *like *have the person who wronged my be sorry for what they have done, because it makes it easier for me to forgive them. Practically though, there are times when I am called to forgive even when the person who has wronged me shows no signs of sorry or repentence (it does not have to be an enemy - I have teenagers :D).
Are you saying that God always requires repentance, but we should not always require repentance?
One of the things you have to keep in mind is that the greatest wrong that a human can do to me, another human, is insignificant vs. the smallest wrong that I, a human, can do to the all powerful creator of the universe by who’s will I even exist. This is the stumbling point when we try to compare forgiveness in the moral world with divine forgiveness.
Are you saying that repentance is only required when we sin against God, but never when we sin against others?
I thinking that you are overthinking this. True forgiveness comes from the heart. No matter what we say or do in public, God knows what is in our hearts and He sees how we forgive or why we do not forgive with a clarity we cannot hope to master.
Is it possible to think too much about these things? Saint Paul the Apostle wrote:

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.

(Philippians 4:8)

And Socrates said:

The unexamined life is not worth living.

(Apology)

I’m thinking that thinking this through is the best thing I can do to discover not only what forgiveness is, but also how best to forgive. Rather than over thinking, I think it more likely that I’m incorrectly thinking about forgiveness. If my thinking is incorrect, then I trust you will be able to help me correct my thinking.

🙂
 
Wiesenthal, himself, chose to say nothing. In the company of the German officer who was dying, Wiesenthal neither forgave him, nor did he refuse to forgive him. He felt that to speak at all could imperil his own life. The officer bequeathed his personal effects to Wiesenthal, who kept them safe and returned them to the officer’s mother after the war. He did not tell the mother how they had met.

The Christian and Buddhist theologians advocated forgiveness, as I recall, for a variety of reasons. It has been years since I read the book. The Jewish theologians may have been mixed in their response. I think I should read the book again to see what I get out of it this time.
Interesting. When you say they advocated forgiveness, do you recall whether they said exactly how to forgive? It seems to me that, just as there is more than one way to skin a cat, so too there is more than one way to forgive. I mean, consider the different ways the word is defined in any dictionary:

for·give

[fer-giv] verb, -gave, -giv·en, -giv·ing.
–verb (used with object)
  1. to grant pardon for or remission of (an offense, debt, etc.); absolve.
  2. to give up all claim on account of; remit (a debt, obligation, etc.).
  3. to grant pardon to (a person).
  4. to cease to feel resentment against: to forgive one’s enemies.
  5. to cancel an indebtedness or liability of: to forgive the interest owed on a loan.
What I hear most of the thoughtful folks here in this discussion advocating is a kind of limited, albeit unconditional, forgiveness in the sense of definition (4). I can see how forgiving in that sense might not require any conditions be met on the part of the one forgiven. The more practical question (and perhaps more important one) is this: What must a person do to require me to forgive him in the sense of definitions (1), (2) and (3)?

For example, think about the story of the Prodigal Son. The father forgives the son who returns home not only in the sense of (4), but also in every sense, including (1), (2) and (3). The son is prepared to get what he deserves–for his father to disown him and let him live at home as a slave, instead of a son. His hope is that dad will only cease to be angry with him. But rather than merely cease to hold a grudge, dad ceases to hold his son’s sins against his son. He not only has no hard feelings, he also has no consequences–no debt for his son to pay, no punishment for his wrong doing! Don’t you agree? and if you do agree with me, then what did the Prodigal Son have to do (if anything) to meet the condition (if any) to be forgiven by his father in this unusually loving and profoundly complete way?

11 Jesus continued: “There was a man who had two sons. 12 The younger one said to his father, ‘Father, give me my share of the estate.’ So he divided his property between them.

13 “Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living. 14 After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. 15 So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. 16 He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything.

17 “When he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired men have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! 18 I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. 19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired men.’ 20 So he got up and went to his father.

“But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.

21 “The son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’

22 “But the father said to his servants, ‘Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. 23 Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let’s have a feast and celebrate. 24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate.

(Luke 15)
 
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spockrates:
Are there any instances where a person must first repent before we can forgive her?

I’m fascinated by the number of times I’ve asked this question of others in this discussion thread, because I have yet to receive an answer! Perhaps you will be the first to risk answering the question? Please give me the answer I’m longing to hear but that I fear no one is brave enough to give me.
Well, I’ll try to give you an answer, but only you can be the one who determines whether it is what you are longing to hear. 😉

The short answer: No.

As I said earlier, forgiveness is a process. If someone wrongs me in a significant manner, it could be very difficult for me to forgive that person regardless if the person repents or not. I may question the sincerity of the repentence for example, or perhaps I recognize that the repentence is sincere but because of my personal hurt I withhold the forgiveness because I am not ready for the party who harmed me to heal because (selfishly perhaps) I am not ready to heal myself.

Then why would my short answer be no? When Jesus died on the cross, he offered his forgiveness to us freely. That means that we are forgiven no matter what we do. Jesus does not technically require us to repent in order to have access to salvation. However, repentence is for our own sake. It opens the doors to Christ’s saving Grace and without it we can not be saved no matter how freely it is offered to us. I’ve heard hell described as a place where the doors are locked from the inside - not the outside. I agree with this analogy. Jesus wants desparately to show that he has forgiven us despite the many times we have failed Him miserably.

Example: A father gives a wrapped present to his son even though the son didn’t clean his room, didn’t mow the lawn, and even took the car for a ride without asking. The son, too embarrassed about his failings, decides not to open the free gift his father offered him and instead throws it away without even looking at it. What was that wrapped present? His son will never know because he rejected the present. Would the father have been right in withholding the present because his son did not repent of his actions? Yes he would have been. However, the father loves his son more than anything the son has done so he offers the gift anyway. Having said that, although repentence is not necessary from the father’s perspective, it is from the son’s. The son needs to repent for his own good, as he would then be receptive to receiving the free gift offered to him.

In other words, to answer your question directly, there are no instances where a person must repent before we can forgive her. However, the person who did not repent could be locking themselves in a spiritual room where a free gift of forgiveness is being offered to her either by the person wronged and/or God.
What I gather from what you are saying is that God does not normally forgive those who knowingly commit mortal sins without later repenting. Is this the gist of your opinion?
Not exactly. In the example I give above, I think of those who are in a state of mortal sin as those who have locked themselves in a spiritual room so to speak where God is knocking at their door but the person inside refuses to let God in. In other words, God forgives unconditionally. Mortal sin is for those who do not accept that forgiveness of their own free will and decision. Repentence of course would be required for them to gain access to the freely offered forgiveness.

When Jesus asked the father to forgive those who crucified him, and I wondered if Jesus also meant to include Judas, I purposely left the question as an open question because I don’t know if Jesus meant to include Judas at that moment or not. I do not think Jesus withheld forgiveness for Judas. However, it is possible that Jesus knew that Judas didn’t want it and therefore did not inquire about him on his behalf (speculation on my part of course as a possibility). Jesus doesn’t waste any prayers. 😉 <----in other words, not withheld, but not inquired of since he didn’t know him (as the paraphrase from the bridegroom parable where Judas may not have been on the wedding guest list).
 
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